Israfil

Yeah, mate, but what I'm telling you is that the OP's situation is of being thirsty in a river of alpine clear water. The problem is that he's sewn his lips shut. There's nothing we can do to help him drink unless he unties the knots. What I said is that his obsession and disregard for others make people go away from him. Unless he resolves his trauma and works on himself, he won't be able to properly relate with people.

I do empathize with him. I've had the same anxieties and fears he has. The feeling you are not loved does not come because everyone else denies you love, but firstly because you do not love yourself, secondly because you don't love people, and thirdly because you expect to be loved despite all that. That is exactly why you alienate others. I've seen some statements on how OP approaches people and what he desires and expects from his interactions, especially with women, and I can guarantee you that he doesn't extend his empathy to how other people feel, and what they desire. Relationships are not about yourself. They're about building something greater than those in it. The satisfaction you derive from it is directly correlated to the amount of effort you put into building it. Sex is remarkably more satisfying when you're able to surrender to and give pleasure to your partner, for example. Reality is infinite love. The feeling of unworthiness of it comes directly from being detached from it and from, essentially, yourself. The best advice I gave to OP was to introspect and create a life devoted to his higher purpose, and I doubt he wouldn't A: feel less dissatisfied and single-mindedly focused on sex, and B: more sexually and socially apt. But doing the hard and necessary work to be properly able to relate with someone else as two living souls is way harder than listening to degrading shit about how modern women deny you your birthright sex. I recognize the problems modern men are going through and how we as a society have to handle this alienating situation, but it is important to also recognize the power each of us has to change our life situation and handle this in a more positive direction for everyone. The future of relationships depends on the ability of people to learn how to relate with each other and share insights so we can improve those who haven't learned it yet. To do so, it is the individuals' responsibility to do their self-work. I talk as someone who had severe depression and anxiety with the thought of never having intimacy and life. I learned how to fix this, and how to healthily build relationships with people. I've tried many times to advise OP, but he always finds an excuse to keep commiserating and complaining about how there's no magic pill to solve his problems. You can take a horse to the water, but not make him drink it.

Losing a child is objectively more traumatizing than being a virgin and horny. That's the normal stage every man starts as and is way simpler to overcome than the devastating and irrecuperable loss of losing your child. Sincerely, making that comparison is a display of complete self-victimization and lack of empathy.

I find this untrue. Leftist women are more open to therapy and other self-development tools make them better to live side by side with you.

Excellent advice.

Your depressive desperation must be one of the best contraceptives in the world. You'll not succeed with this mindset. Go to therapy and work out your trauma.

My point is that creating fictional hypotheticals doesn't say anything about reality. If you were talking about your own experience, maybe it would have some validity. But the whole point is that you find excuses and create stories to not have to try.

I was depressed, but I knew how to handle my own depression without placing too much emotional labor on others. And being broke only meant we could go out less, but I eventually bounced back financially. In the moment I saw her, I knew we had something to live together. My intuition doesn't lie to me. I just naturally grew closer to her as we went out, and suddenly we were dating.

She was my first goth gf. hahahahhaha I loved her really much. We even lived together for some time. When we had done what we had to do in each other's path, we grew apart. But it was a very nice developing experience for both of us.

He pulled this out of his ass. I can create the scenario where I go out with one of the friends, the other four get jealous and I go out with the rest of them. I've seen this happen too, so which version is more real? Forget these hypotheticals, man. Experience life directly. This is one of the most disgusting things I've ever read in this forum. For as long as you think of women like this, you'll be denied of their attention. Thank god for that, by the way.

Let's go with your sales analogy: If you try to do cold approach with absolutely nothing in mind except fucking someone, it'd be equivalent to having a terrible product that you push onto people so you can grift their money. And this mindset is so prevalent that girls smell people that have it from miles away. Trust me. I've been there, I've had this mindset. I have way more success now than when I was cold approaching every girl that crossed my path. If he follows my advice and it doesn't work, I'd say I was wrong. I have no interest in keeping an illusion just because I was the one who created it. That's the difference between honest people and people who create a framework to essentialize the world and create fake stories to justify that view. The better I serve my purpose, the more abundance in every sense of the word comes into my life, including relationships. Every people that I know that I consider to have a high consciousness has good relationships. It's almost like if you see beyond your own selfish needs and perspective, other people start to get closer to you. Crazy right? We can look at studies that correlate different success metrics with relationship satisfaction. I doubt it is a negative correlation. Once again, I live in reality. There is consistent evidence that socialization is the main predictor of what people see as attractive. Just search "bad boy myth" on Google, and you'll see that women rank men who exhibit non-toxic traits. Furthermore, you are misinterpreting the argument. I once again urge you to look at the correlation between success and relationship satisfaction. With arranged marriages or not, being sociable and competent will always increase your odds of having more fulfilling relationships. You can cope as much as you want for not being where you want to be. There are real societal problems that alienate people, but people always on women or feminism, instead of how much we have to work and the death of common spaces where socialization can happen. I work to change this paradigm, but since I cannot alone change the whole of society, I also take the responsibility of developing myself to increase my odds of success. It is a way more empowering worldview.

If you become a sexologist, and sincerely go through your studies, not only you'll be able to have a fulfilling sexual life, but you'll learn how much bullshit the incel theory is immersed in.

Exactly.

I'm not shaming him. I'm just saying that his frustration stems from not having sex, and complaining why cold approach is not instantly working comes from the mindset that you're entitled to sex. Almost every incel I've ever seen has this mentality. What I meant that women will come when you follow your goals is that achieving goals is a very important component of having self-confidence, which directly increases charisma. Competence is and will always be an attractive trait. Besides, achievements usually draw the attention of people, especially if they have social components to them. I'm not saying that he has to stop cold approach necessarily. But you won't see any success unless you have something to talk about. If all you do is study incel theory and watch anime, unless you're cold approaching a girl at a convention, you won't have too much to talk about. That's why I advice him to develop himself in ways that promote socialization, and that will help him get girls by proxy. And no. The men who got sex historically were the ones who could protect their women. And the socialization processes and norms we created are designed to keep incompetent men away from women. As I said, you don't want your daughter to children with someone that does nothing but complain on the internet all day. Besides, what's seen as attractive is largely socially defined. Just see what was attractive 300 years ago or even 100 years ago, and you will see that is vastly different from today. Biologically we were the same. There is no meaningful difference evolutionarily speaking. This kind of essentialist, pseudo-scientific argument is the kind of trap that keep you in the incel forums, instead of listening to the advice that will help you get out of this situation.

I'm not shaming him. I'm just saying that his frustration stems from not having sex, and complaining why cold approach is not instantly working comes from the mindset that you're entitled to sex. Almost every incel I've ever seen has this mentality. What I meant that women will come when you follow your goals is that achieving goals is a very important component of having self-confidence, which directly increases charisma. Competence is and will always be an attractive trait. Besides, achievements usually draw the attention of people, especially if they have social components to them. I'm not saying that he has to stop cold approach necessarily. But you won't see any success unless you have something to talk about. If all you do is study incel theory and watch anime, unless you're cold approaching a girl at a convention, you won't have too much to talk about. That's why I advice him to develop himself in ways that promote socialization, and that will help him get girls by proxy. And no. The men who got sex historically were the ones who could protect their women. And the socialization processes and norms we created are designed to keep incompetent men away from women. As I said, you don't want your daughter to have children with someone that does nothing but complain on the internet all day. Besides, what's seen as attractive is largely socially defined. Just see what was attractive 300 years ago or even 100 years ago, and you will see that is vastly different from today. Biologically we were the same. There is no meaningful difference evolutionarily speaking. This kind of essentialist, pseudo-scientific argument is the kind of trap that keep you in the incel forums, instead of listening to the advice that will help you get out of this situation.

I hadn't even kissed a girl by 16. I got anxious that I would never be able to have success with women, so I developed skills and exposed myself to experiences that would change that. And if I could go back in time, I'd focus more time on actually being more interesting rather than simply cold approaching. My best experiences with women were through meeting them "organically", as in through friend groups or in events in which I participated. Cold approaching is doable, but it's way more difficult to turn that into a sexual in my experience, than building continuous intimacy with someone you meet through your group.

I've told you a million times. You will only have success in being social, and consequently landing dates, when you are in a more integrated state of mind. I was broke because I lost a job due to depression, but the entirety of 7 years of inner work didn't go away. That's why I'm no longer broke, and depressed, and managed even in a bad spot of my life to have positive social interactions. I was broke and depressed, but It wasn't the first time, and I knew how to bounce back. You have to carve that path to be socially apt, my friend. If you haven't got anything else besides blue balls to show to a girl, your margin of success will tend to zero in a googol of universes. As I said, you will not be in a position to meet anyone if you haven't met yourself. You know nothing about your potential, you are not engaging in any hobbies, you don't talk about working or doing some sport. You are simply bland. You have to have experience to have conversations and tell good stories that will make people to talking to you. Yesterday I went to a karaoke, for example. There was this beautiful girl who was jamming to every song I sang. She wasn't jamming because of me, I'm not a worldwide rockstar. She was jamming because she enjoyed Indie Rock, as I do. So it was mindless to talk to her knowing I had something in common with her. I literally just said "You were dancing to every song I sang. Do you like Indie too?" and that was the beginning of the conversation. I found out she's a DJ and we talked about organizing an Indie event at the venue. She has a boyfriend, and I saw her with him, so I wasn't flirting with her. The point here is showing to you how much relatable you can be when you have an interest people can relate to.

It doesn't matter. You're not entitled to someone else's attention. If they're unavailable, you should leave them alone. It can be, as long as you put serious thought and consideration into it, instead of simply being an idiot spilling untasteful jokes, as most of "shock value" comedians tends to be. You won't get far into your dating life if all you have is a dating life. People don't like people without anything going on in their lives. Cold approach sounds appealing to you because you think you're entitled to sex. That's why you like prostitution too. Sex is an important component of life, but if you only focus on getting it you seriously damage your mental health and overall development. You sound like a teenager. That's why I'm saying you would be better off if you develop your life. Sexual success was never easy, especially for men. About half of the men in the entire history of humanity managed to procreate. That's by design. You don't want your daughter to have a kid with some horndog that does nothing in life but complain about their situation and annoy people on the streets. So we created environments and social norms to ensure that properly developed and socially apt people have more chances of having sex. If you want to have a fulfilling sexual life, that will come when you develop the rest of it. You can keep doing what you are doing or actually listen to someone that has no interest in selling you a shitty pickup course or keeping you in the bubble of comfortable self-loathing that 4chan or whatever incel forum you go to provides. Strive for greatness. Pick a high-consciousness goal and work towards it. You'll find plenty of sex along the way.

I've said this to him in the last two weeks and he just makes excuses on why this wouldn't work or how he wants something that doesn't take too much time. The doomer mentality is very stubborn.

She groped me in a club. I started arguing with her. Her friend group apologized and said she was drunk. A bouncer came up, I explained what happened and he told the friend group they had to take her out. They sent her home in a Uber and even had a drink with me afterward. Life is not a conspiracy, man. You are not omnipotent for having a xx chromosome. There is no such strategy. Some people will never be attracted to you or me, and that's okay. People are not functions. You cannot say "I'll input x and have the y output". This is a very materialistic approach to something that's inherently subjective. Your framing in this is wrong, man.

False. People fuck up all the time. It is expected. They will fuck up with you too. That's why the word "sorry" was invented. “depressed” Didn’t you just say in the other thread? What I meant is that you cannot develop social abilities with a fucked up mind. I was sexually active for over 6 years at that point. I knew how to get girls. The depression came from other problems I had in my life. I went to therapy and changed careers after that. You can keep doing this, and keep having the same results, and keep complaining on the same forums about the same results, or you can break the chain that everyone is perpetuating by actually relating to those people without seeing them as simply a hole you can get into. Firstly, the OP is not entitled to their attention. Period. Waving your hand in front of someone's phone is everything but polite. You said in another post of yours that a "harmless joke" made a woman reject you or something and the actual joke was very rude. Your self-perception and OP's perception may be very skewed and biased. I really think you should master your basics. Create a good sleep schedule, organize your personal space, donate, sell and throw away old things you have lying around, go back to or develop hobbies that stimulate your mind, especially in the crafts, or artistic areas, meet people with similar hobbies and talk to them as friends. Eventually, you'll make one or more friends, and they will introduce you to more people. One of them might be someone who interests you and then you can try to develop a relationship with them. The best part of this approach is that you don't lose any of the things you've accomplished in the process of developing your social skills. Even if you lose some friend or fail to get a date, you still have everything else that makes your life interesting and, being social, you can simply make more friends or meet new girls. I've doing this for over 10 years. It is not a simple or easy process. But it's either this or loneliness.

Because people are not calculators. If you treat people like people, all of a sudden, even if you don't have a lot of superficially attractive traits, people want to be close to you. I managed to get a girlfriend, while completely broke and depressed, just because I didn't see her as a collection of arbitrary estimates that a pseudo-scientific PUA YouTube channel said I should evaluate her, or me for that matter. I saw a girl, I thought she was interesting, I started to know her, we liked each other and we dated. That's how most healthy regular relationships are. Don't take this redpill frame seriously. It is itself an illusion.

I give up on this guy. He says he has a problem, people give him advice and instead of applying it, he just comes back with his own doomer reason of why it wouldn't work.

This has nothing to do with women or men. Socialization, the stagnation of wages, city design, and political incentives to alienate people are the main reasons people choose not to have babies. If you move away from the incel forums, and look around in the world, you'll see completely average people with girlfriends and families. What stops you from having the same things is that you think having sex will solve your traumas, and it won't. You have to take care of your mental health first, and talk to other people later. You know what the best way of not worrying about that? Just don't be a rapist, be sure of it, and you won't look like one. You are overthinking this. You can never think about 100% of the things that could go wrong. This exercise is futile. Being in the moment and talking sincerely and openly with other is way better than trying to micromanage every single step you take.

Yes, she would. I was personally being harassed in a party and the drunk girl got kicked out. You cannot invade other people's personal space. This joke would, with reason, repel any woman with above room temperature IQ. You should not speak sexual stuff to people that you haven't even touched yet. If you didn't know she was married, you probably didn't have the necessary intimacy to say something like that to her. In the wrong context, this could even be seen as predatorial. You need more social awareness.