kavaris

@The Crocodile As long as some part of you is still invested in consciousness and meditation after this then thats all that mattered. The other stuff i said will make more sense later on, obviously now, it just seems like two ppl who arent on the same page at all.

You can keep going im still here. Go on about the intellect one now then... You had said something about intellect not applying to every sensation and fair enough. What were we talkin bout again?

@The Crocodile What is painful? Focusing on one thing?

@The Crocodile it does, because im tellin you im not responding unless.

@The Crocodile Now see, your changin the subject on me here. Im only responding on the stipulation we stay on one road. p.s. if you wanna switch to intellect, then thats a new road now that we'd have to stay on.

@The Crocodile What are the effective effects of effective meditation? Does it mean there cant be any reason to meditate besides quieting the mind? is that what you are implying? because you have me very confused. p.s. you dont have to be lazy, im only asking on the stipulation thatll youll go one item at a time.

@The Crocodile Ill just go ahead and address the one on meditation.. ~ i didnt say anything about the effectiveness of meditation? The intuitive side isnt even a thing. Raw meditation doesnt clear the mind. Intellect is about as synonymous as it gets with consciousness. etc. where in there did it say meditation"wasnt" effective? Plz dont confuse me.

@The Crocodile backup there, and go one at a time, plz : / .. too much at once.

It doesnt even make half-sense "Its quantum physics, and entangled bits of information. Its a probability... from what?"—unexplainable bits of information from an unexplainable source of consciousness? People who do not know any better have to agree once youve created a generality out of everything, without acknowledging or providing the freedom to allow unique perspectives and other generalities to challenge said perspectives, due to lack of trying, or trying only enough for it to be as simple and elegant as can be beared. What is even the point in meditating then, if what everyone would presumably be meditating on is confined to Tom World, where everything has been put into this already-solved black box, it doesnt even make half-sense. The intuitive side isnt even a thing... Raw meditation doesnt clear the mind. The closest you can get is by fixating the mind on a new construction that gives you the lasting impression that—you had simplified forefrontal thoughts in a twisted way where they are being sent into a subconscious realm, temporarily, like repeating a song in your head wherein it feels like those immediate thoughts exist automatically (like automatic breathing) because they know the lyrics... Once your mind is on to the fact that its been running automatic, it immediately generates new forefrontal thoughts, like... Intellect is about as synonymous as it gets with consciousness. Youd need to be clever to get anywhere with meditating anyway.

Tom i thought about this phrase of tom's that mentions how, consciousness/awareness leads to lowering of entropy (if yous dont know what that is you can look it up no problem) but it generally would mean that, randomness (entropy) would shift towards a balanced state as awareness/consciousness comes into play... that is, its like, something thats less random that invokes signs of clarity, alignment, etc. except... ... that is a conflation between two things: awareness and entropy, that arent really consequences of each other... that is to say, becoming/having more awareness doesnt lead to less entropy, in the same way having less entropy wouldnt make you more aware. Instead, it would be more accurate to describe awareness as a delicate balance of multiple things, multiple thoughts, feelings, and ideas that are simmering together, and having somewhere in that recipe the necessary experiences that are prominent enough that they lend theirselves towards those advanced insights, or progressive sorts of thoughts that are, really kindve chaotic in nature, at first, but really they have a higher alignment with a system thats more chaotic as opposed to less... if you have less entropy, then you are less attuned to this reality because this reality implies a complex system. It doesnt mean that you cant find balance and alignment, it just means those two ideas of awareness and entropy arent like ingredients, like, "first i add sauce A, and afterwards it tastes like flavor B"... Obviously its a bit more complicated.

Hi v Low Sugar What was the name of Leo's most recent video, it was like high quality v low quality perspectives, something like that? Anyway, youll know what i mean by saying that, youve got the high level terms, but now you need the lower level programming stuff, wherein you are drawing a line from <destination>"Enlightenment", to <node_2>"lowlvl_pt".. where, the *lowlvl_pt* is that point or aspect that appears to connect to something else in your arsenal.... In that way, you will understand that enlightenment wasnt "too early", but rather the thoughts, feeling or emotions that you longed for were left undiscovered or, you could say they were out of reach—This is normal, as most people start w/ the general notions of enlightenment and what it can be, and continue to work downwards, as its a top down kindve experience. But whats missed in that process is the lessons learned on psychedelics and the nuances that are conflated into everyday living. I myself am often trying to be a normal person, but really theres a grand orchestra of schizophrenia goin' on for me, and what ive come to experience, that is this intimate relationship between, call it, real and strange realms, and that dark versus light is a bit harder to contend with, but its also the answer for some... Nevertheless, theres no *clean* way to understand it, as most will have to point to psychedelics, cause thats the easiest way to communicate, and they only mean the best, just as parents who are good parents only mean their best, but it might fall short to the future inhabitants—who are like GenerationXIV3AndBeyond, you know. So thats my advice, though again, theres no clean way to have said it anyway.

Strength v Weakness I dont often reach/sail through the right part of the seas or mountain that oversees all aspects of myself and what they might be best known as; And theres a range of peculiar—often wordless verbs happening in my head, which all adds to my own inability to say "i am ----" in so far as i just would say it as "i am". But i am observing more of a spectrum, more of a pandoras box. I dont know if you are into mysticism, but i think thats how you might connect the word 'sage' in a way that isnt like, a limiter, but a continuation in the realms of mysticism, does that make sense? iuno, to me thats how we balance the mystical/spiritual side of ourselves, the universe within ourselves and in further understanding the human condition. That is, its through a cascade of events, and a... iuno i wanna call it a 'strength' to continuously identify and manage said reality—though im not sure thats the right words im tryina say... makes me think of a 'weakness' vs. 'strength' type of thing, and im not sure about having to conjure them in this context. I guess its something for everyone to contemplate. p.s. im tryina title things more so its understood/read as a kind of insight, as opposed to a comment thats read as like some stab or like, jagged thing.

@Breakingthewall Awesome, thats what i like to hear... Extract those terms, like you said: "reality is the whole package"... What is a package, or what motion do you think of when you think of opening a package, what sentiment does the act of receiving it represent or how does it make you feel—what does it look like?... Shape, color, pattern, etc... "Open our heart to everything...", what lies at the center of the heart, and... which direction leads you further towards it—or rather, by what ways can we deduce or determine the dragline/or direction to go, either literally, figuratively—as a past, present or future memory/experience? "... integrate it"... Now likewise, what is integration, and what are the general sentiments that you think of when you think of integration. Is it "two things merging"? What does it mean to merge? Is it "two things separating", and becoming "distinct"? Is it something else? What does it mean to become a distinction—And, for that matter, how can we integrate or interpret *distinction* in a new way, from a place that leads to ( ... ... and now im invoking the next term you had so eloquent used... ... ) "... and place ourself on a higher level...", what do you think of when you think of reaching the next—higher, more aligned, more stable area or *place* in life? What is the universe and the human condition predicated on, and what does it mean? Is this higher level a place, is it a thought or a feeling? What direction should we face, in order to start going in the right direction? What is this *other* that we face, and when we face it does it have a *beingness*, that which we anticipate, in the initial action (the direction of) seeing/visualizing other, and everafter?

I heard a really nice definition for mysticism the other day— that is, its just > "acting on the impulse to love the divine"... that is— what it is presumably doing is "pointing to the mystery itself.." (neither on the side of Theism or Atheism—neither for or against a first cause, creativity activity of divine nature) rather its "emersing the mind in the love of the mystery around that".... Thats a great way to put it right? Anyway, i had a couple different topics on my mind that i wanted to share, and that is like, this sortve backup/alternative lifestyle, and what we are suppose to do if we are still alive, still preferring things well into an awkward point For, our life is suppose to be the hardest thing we'll ever have to go through—but then, all that, and we end up at the EOL, End of life experience, where we have to wane in to the ocean ... iuno its just bizarre. And it takes too long, like, for instance if we are gonna like, wait, and wait, trying to die during old age, it takes a year to fully be dead dead, as thats what ive witnessed from a second hand perspective... and its horrible cause your bowels arent strong enough, etc, etc... thats the very last days. So let us make that sequence not exist. What is happening, that the mind is like, lagging behind while the body is exiting?what is it we need to do to just... get it off, like a bandaid... "get off".. let me say "no" to everything, everyone... Let me die now, "do you want to die?" someone asks. "No." i say, as it dont make sense from an outside perspective, but, that "no" is in response to a higher order of stories happening, that which doesnt run w/ waking or dreaming, but a middle-of-the-sandwich area... And in doing so (assuming youve now really embraced it from head to toe..) You will dream within the right context. That is, you are saying "No"... "No" to everyone, and then the "dream" (which is its own entity, sortve separated and blind to the unity you share to it) has no choice but to recreate on the bounds of like, "no, just.. get it off", which that sentiment is like, only harmonious if you are fully embracing it, and sharing it with your dream; And kinda feels angelic to be in harmony, no discord, just you know... "Whatever happens, happens..." an angelic, special song of the heart sequence or something... like a ride... a secret death ride, one that brings everything close to a peaceful inbetween state, as its really difficult to get pulled apart entirely. Its unclear what being pulled apart even is, and how it works...Perhaps... we had no preference you know, as theres nothing to really prefer at some point, presuming everything feels alright. The term "Alright" must itself be like, a VERY agile and expandable sentiment... its like, "alright"... And then, "Wooosh"!... Mystery. Well... anyway..., we shall see t'what should happen.

@Breakingthewall Ehhh. Im not 100% certain about that, but its an option right? Its like, you have the freedom to make that leap, literally.. metaphorically, but it could end up resulting in something unexpected... As you should consider that life never ends, and so theres no telling what happens, if that is the right move, but again, its like using a sledgehammer on the floorboards of your home, and its like, will it accomplish what we want. Surely we want something BIG to happen if things are that bad right?... I would try to finesse it as opposed to trying that, as we still dont understand whats going on. Anyway, i had somethin else to continue saying, but now ive lost track of what it was for the time being. p.s. theres something to the general notion of going with a flow, like even in a nonsensical dream where we are like, falling all over the place, its like... we are continuing a particular sequence, a cascade really, but it has remnants of reality still, even if its like non sense sometimes.

Being—"from the anticipation of an *Other*, and the initial direction of there being an other to treat in the first place" It occurred to me that, this idea of *being*, and treating things around you as a sortve, non-personal thing (that is, where you are just seeing them for their silouette, and not for their content that requires more detail and attention) those two idea can come together. And then, theres an interesting idea about, the beingness of things around you, where they can now begin to *be* as they are. How can we just *be*, without taking into consideration that everything else must *be*, too. Its probably a little weird to understand when phrased like that, but surely someone else will know what im talking about, and figure out a better way to phrase it. Its like, "the beingness of not just yourself and attitude about the external, but the idea of, a continued effort on the externals part to just *be*, without your input or thoughts happening in front of it, jabbing, or like, jostling back and forth on the issue, trying to examine it in detail. Cause you can have the idea of *beingness*, but what good is that if the outside is always considered as like, something that defies beingness. I might be talking in circles trying to explain it, but i guess, it kindve has to be seen for yourselves. I think a good way to illustrate it, is to take the example of an app, where you have the "thumbnail" and the content that exists when you go beyond the thumbnail. So, usually it would be about what it appears to be, justified by the content. Now its like, forget about the content, what is the general idea inside of the thumbnail? What is it saying?.. and to some degree, what are you thinking thats making it feel that way? otherwise, youll go on presuming theres a quality to investigate about that thumbnail, and this is more so leaning away from that. Anyway... i hope yous got what i was tryina say. Feel free to figure out how to say it again in a way that makes more sense.

I get to consciousness at some point in this, so bare w/ me... This word (syzygy) is so interesting, because in the act of using it to describe an opposite, its also doing so as if to mean "at the point, or union of..", or that is, theres an implied meaning that comes with it when used in this way, e.g. "Had we found a way to syzygy the current placement of SubjectA in our list of priorities—in conjunction w/ SubjectZ that's down at the bottom—we might have returned to using SubjectZ more often in our daily lives/ experiments." Therefore it encompasses both the meaning of opposites, and *union of* at the same time, thus, itself means the opposite of what it could mean (such is the shape of multiple things in orbit—when they are both in union and not in union together...) Anything with multiple dimensions to it, or anything with our 3-dimension is cascading around, in an eternal exchange with extra terrestrial forces. but really are dimensions like 1-plane, 2-plane, 4-plane etc. real or are they just conceptual? this leads me to a new point, or question everyone should ask theirselves, and that is, "What is this a pointer to? Doesnt that point to a 'reality' that supercedes conceptual space? And if what matters is the relationship we share to our own reality, then what field would help us to understand this relationship?" In other words, you wouldnt try to understand a language that exists conceptually onward would you?... Would it then be about introspecting and approaching our condition from the perspective of a story, a kindve epic that curates itself, circulates, and solves its own problems by identifying which directions do — or dont go in the right direction; Doesnt our language do that? Doesnt our connection to the universe do that? If we imagine language like a song language, or a poem that maps to a song, you see how this natural language becomes more than language, but like doorways into the conscious self, and from multiple angles which are sometimes accidental as we accidentally stumble onto new connections, new ways of understanding what has been the same thing (consciousness) for allalong. Think of how much we are misunderstanding because've how we have been tirelessly trying to work around the edges of conceptual space—as we might consider "our current progress on Earth" as being purely *"edge work"*, work that lives out in the decimal points with very little—flat, and not enough interesting things —atleast not without having actually gone to explore the centre fugue, seeing what could be—at the heart of it. The end. Thank you, and have a good day.

The other day i accidentally bought parmigan instead of romano cheese, however, after realizing i could grow to enjoy something so long as it was close enough, i wrote these words—words that must be understood as opposed to simply read... Burden, Curse or a Blessing in Disguise Parmigiano is like, one of these things that is close enough to a target area we will call the Romano area, that the brain can make that transition and full heartedly be on board. This sortve "Close-Enough Ability" is our greatest strength and failure, cause we will fall into an endless dream by this same idea of imagining, and believing in the images imagined. And taking it further, we would do that on and on to the detriment of our own identity, causing reality to "not know the difference" upon entering the new reality.. In that sense, we have only one ultimate problem, and thats how to look at this in a new way, a way that doesnt forget, which seems like is best told as a story, a kindve epic that curates itself, circulates, and doesnt falter or fall into a dream, as... ive not had normal, childhood-like dream in a very long time. im not scared, but from an outsiders perspective you would question how i can not be scared, as there is rarely glimpses into events that show where times of light occurred. I transfer to light faster than the escape velocity of the blackest holes present in me. And telling that story is impossible, so it has to be flipped around. Believing in that story is hard, and so i dont. But thats why its another one of these, transferences into a new reality. Thats why we cant look at anything we've learned as having any relevance, not even a little. Only enough to tell a story using it, cause it has almost NO precedence over any factors that live in the *"soon to be believed and lived in*" reality/mentality—technically every moment is/and could be the birth moment, the death moment, any-other moment; we're just holding on to an aspect of this reality, ignoring those (like, the dream sequence... understanding dreams can be a burden or a curse—or a blessing in disguise much like these words)

@Leo GuraI get ya. I think i might but misaddressing or adressing a strange facet now, but you made me think about "what do we even use as the center", as opposed to making anything about intellect (which is itself a word that we may or may not conclude means anything) Instead, we could associate a word with someone that actually both means something else, and that better fits for "whatever the ultimate thing is" for a quality of a person. like, is it that we wanna praise someone else? and if thats the case, what are we praising them for, its like.. Do we appreciate there "hard work", or some like "acknowledgement" in general? but then its like, what are we talking about right? Iuno, if i had to ask myself "what is the thing that im looking for in a person" then its more like, something that im interested in, and how i want to collaberate.. but then, if we are talking about like a more serious situation, like... well maybe youll be able to finish that sentence, or like i said i just initiated your message from an off-angle in the first place, lol

Somebody had to be "the smartest IQ man", which means the guy thats second place had to try his hand at opening a bistro or something... whatever second placers do... Whats the smartest man gonna be like in a thousand years, surely theyll have another way to gauge intellect, or a reinterpretation of, so that it actually measures like, "people that used their intellect.." , in ways to progress others, but then that assumes that this person of high intellect isnt being throttled to the very bottom of the stage, without any recollection. In that sense, the problems could exist around communities and traditions... although thats a different topic right? I think its a good topic, but iuno how id even begin it... Hey, we are here, and we are participating as a community, right? Thats one part of the problem solved. lol. lol one part of solving the problem is just to participate i guess, that should be like, an ancient proverb on a runestone somewhere.

I hope yous dont mind, but i wrote a made a revision/little word adventure/exploration on what i will give credit to @Vercingetorix@Nick_98 (as well as everyone else since yous kept the thread alive) for being the inspiration of... Yous may take/steal these words and build on them however you wish... Control Signals Ænd what's underneath? We realized an intresting point about emotion—moods and feelings, they (much like thoughts, ideas and sensations) are an abstraction layer, a veil unseen, upon something more/less primal to your beingness, that which lies underneath—those sentiments above serving as a type of control signaling, for something that may or may not need controlling/refocusing... If we describe it in music terms, we might say that its like a tuning fork (a navigator/compass that redirects the note/tone your feeling) wherein we are subconsciously choosing which direction to be facing. Prior to this realization, we had likely already thought about the *masking* of deeper emotions, thoughts, and feelings (emotions and feelings as a hard layer we couldnt get beyond) Likewise, we had already considered the idea of looking down one path or direction (or a physical scene or scenario) Alas it just hadnt yet merged or compounded those two ideas into one. Its kindve like a three step process, after the (1) experiencing of said emotion—which is a kind of recognition step, (2) This would mean *"introspecting and interpreting those emotions that are buried there in the first place"*... Then of course there's one last turn or prestige, which is (3) A **perspective** on what direction you are facing, and *whether it is related to said emotion or not*, which gives you the option/ability to decide on whether you want an alternative direction, or rather, which direction you would prefer to be looking at—or going down. In the end we would say, *"it's the act of being sent down different directions"*—whether that be a strong emotion, or a thought, etc—and how you come to recognize, internalize and reorient that direction, that ultimately leads you to where you want to go. p.s. feel free to moderate/remove my previous comment, for moderators who like things neat and tidy, as i think it communicates the exact same sentiment.

Hi. thats an interesting take (for ops sake too im sure he thought it interesting, though i dont mean to speak on his behalf) i personally hadnt introspected and thought about an emotion as an interpretation of something underneath. of course i thought about the masking of deeper emotions thoughts, and feelings, but i never took the time to illustrate the moods and emotions as a cover, a kindve veil that exist as an abstration layer/language, on top of the underlying programming. So returning to what op said, "I witness the emotion of Hate, or a form of suffering", i think that new perspective adds some insight or perspective on what direction you could take, where you can go with this (what presumably was) a natural language on top of something lowerlvl, primal, akin to control signals of the body (which you can look at it in simpler terminology, where you are being "sent down different directions," whether that be a strong emotion, or a thought, etc...) and how you come to recognize—internalize and re orient that direction ultimately leads you to where you want to go, which is something ive been into lately, i just hadnt put those two pieces together. So hey, you made me realize something in your questioning! lol

The most horrible thing, atleast a second most horrible, is a pretty much default, definite, as the sequence of life requires the experience of knowing what the worst outcomes are, and having you face them. As you come into life not knowing that you didnt have to face them. Isnt that screwed up? perfection isnt a word that really means anything in the realm of life, cause to live is to face these little vaccuums of separation, being sucked into situations and scenarios that go against your more spirited, innovative nature, which often can be paradoxical, or unexpected... or its flat out the worst thing (or maybe somewhere second to worst seeing as we keep those worst outcomes very close sometimes) nevertheless it doesnt stop the second-to-worst things from happening, especially when of a certain mindset; Because even thinking in terms of spirituality and consciousness isnt quite enough, seeing as it is just a sparkly, shiny, pokemon-like idea with geometric patterns and other things layered on top. It more to it then this lofty sortve, psychedelic-in-nature thing and unfortunately its not realized until its been really shoved in your direction, some sortve very large astroid that awakes the foundation, and ignites the ground. Prior to that, its a bit like a wave of unknowning, avoiding the fire. And then one day, unless ignorant to all possible signs, you become the fire, which isnt necessarily bad or good, its just not the same boat you were once in, sailing the seas and going by the wind and waves. Thats actually the biggest mistake thats made, and perfection is more like a "greater than" or "less than" situation, something that we likely wont be able to carry with us, beyond that notion of perfection we were allotted at birth, as we held on to a very fragile thing thats now slowly deteriorating, but we can hope to one day achieve a same or similar perfection (which would be strange to phrase as the worst thing but hey, whatever floats ur boat i guess)

i think i should put this here, cause it kindve trails off into speaking about meditation, which implies consciousness and our spirit self. note, im not a sciency person, or expert on indian traditions, it just happens to coincide. Sometimes when you are deeply focused on a task, or something, you can feel a literal pressure, or heightened sensation near the lowest edge of the Frontal Lobe (Prefrontal Cortex) or, what feels like its in your **olfactory lobe** behind the nose—or slightly above the point between the eyes (though its not literally in this lobe since its associated with smell) It just happens to activate nerves nearby (though i never understood the ajna chakra, as for me it would be right above the point between the eyes—but close enough i suppose). but again, thats when your deeply entranced with a task—but not necessarily a task that requires complex thinking, cause thats like... your WHOLE brains on fire, including the ajna, between the eyes, etc, etc..) But when meditating, the temporal lobes are the gateway to the rest of the brain, particularly the Hippocampus. The Hippocampus is connected to the anterior nucleus of the thalamus, which is connected functionally and structurally w/ the hypothalamus (and epithalamus which houses the pineal gland). The thalamus is between the cerebral cortex and the midbrain. The epithalamus is located *behind* the thalamus. From the point of view of the very top of the brain—looking down, you have the Cerebral Cortex, then Limbic System (hippocampus, and then amygdala—which is a couple inches deeper then the temples...) then theres some nerve fibers, then the part we already mentioned w/ the thalamus and whatknot. Obviously the last thing would be the brainstem, going top to bottom (medulla oblongata is part of the brainstem). The Cerebellum is located behind the brainstem... And then, situated at the back of the brain is the Occipital Lobe, which is part of the Cerebral Cortex. And theres some minor details to all of this, but thats the basics (and all the names that i would recognize) When meditating, thats what you can feel. At some point "the brain" no longer exists, and your just as one—in one, being, one sensation, a feeling or an emotion.

Ideally, that is what to be aiming towards, this vague sense of it all becoming one. and just as leo himself has pointed out (episode on power of not knowing—it is mentioned in..) and what coincides with, that by which we are still keeping out three eyes on: God, truth & Survival... Rght? i think thats what the three "aims" are. And then, we might even further stratify them, that is when our brain wonders from the center, which *paths* are the ideal path, and which (from your own experience) you feel, or know undoubtedly, is the wrong direction. That is, its hard to *point* towards something, if its almost like a transient, illusive, negative space. Only those who have the experience of going there have it defined, have it deeply rooted in their daily regimen. And so, there needs to be a way to get introduced to it, and to also continuing exploring it after the fact, such that its not like, associated with only negatives and negative spaces. Actually, it only works if its discovered through some sortve positive lens, with *good* alocasia leaves in the same spectrum of thought, layers of reasons that make it make sense. If it doesnt make sense yet, then it may be that one has to go back, and try internalizing things from some angle or point of view that isnt the one you're currently in or contemplating. p.s. in the beginning (i recall) having this feeling that like... i couldnt connect the two — meditating and actively participating in the physical world. And i can tell you that the line separating those in your mind becomes blurred, as well as like... erased completely, and theres just one, spiritual uh... thing, that you are living in thereafter.