kavaris

Which one

Im watchin these videos atm (p.s. he says somethin bout a series called Atlantica, but iuno wat that is, im behind on this particular area) I think these are the exact same video, though im watchin both anyway just to make sure. Now i dont know if this is jus divin deep into history on spain, nevertheless there are ancient monuments underwater, so its not like this guy is out there diving for now reason over and over again. So that is to say, someone was in spain over many, many thousands of years ago building some megaliths, granted its just been underwater so long now, and its like tryina explain the Entire story of Greece from looking at a single Doric Greek column. We have to use our imagination and see what could be our options ∆ Like theres gonna be different sides explaining the stories all throughout time, And it may be the case some stories ~before Plato were those exaggeraters, where others were against those people by people who were raised to think of Atlantis as demoted (or jus non existent) By the time it gets to Plato, the stories about it being a great city survived, but it couldve just been like the Pyramids, that is like, these unknown megaliths that dont have any function (any *obvious function that would be immediately clicking) I mean just knowing that they were built is the first step to curiosity, And the details can be considered later as we think over it, and weight the options and such... Now im at the part (@40:00 round about) where im learning about the people of Tartessos, which yet again, this is adding a whole nother layer to the story. Very interesting stuff, if yous are into it.

Eventually, I do wanna get to these other things i been working on (eventually) involving Poseidon and Atlantis, as i also feel like yous would find it all interesting, granted i dont know ifanyones mentioned Atlantis before... So its just a feeling. But for right now, and going by what the trend has been, such as in books, like The Emerald Tablets of Thoth the Atlantean by Maurice Doreal which ive only gotten through the first 20 pages, So i dont know if it ever describes things in terms of geography and/or family lineages, as its more akin to a prose-ified narrative or somethin', that is, someone having received the emerald tablets, who is passing down the information to us~what the tablets say/mean, and what this person learned as a result Sortve akin to divine inspiration or connection to a higher power, Poimanders to H.Trismegistus ~ but in story form, And so, that begins w/ Thoth having come from Atlantis to establish Egypt. But I was thinking there could also be something in history, where someone begins from Egypt/Africa ~more likely~ and then says "Hey, lets try boating over the lip of water here~at the coast of Libya~to see whats on the other side" And in doing that, a small commune agrees to establish that land in Europe, and something happens, and they never really get things going, or the locals there (and those who 'held back in LibYa), figure out that that 'settlement that had all the people going to Atlantis', it was very much successful, And then they decide to go over there and steal all their sht Very conniving, backstabbing, as its sortve like *secret commune that they are encroaching But also, they are ruining the history in terms of like, having broken the relationship between the Atlanteans and the Africans who are to become Egyptians. They sortve end up staggering what wouldve been a peaceful community. Nevertheless, we might say that Thoth was one of these individuals (a representative of) or a *marker, like the name "Moses" in that, many people had the name Moses~granted Moses was a real name, and im not so sure about like, how we get to the Egyptian vers., of Thoth, but i do know that its ḏḥwty (transliterated Djehuty or Tehuti) and if you pronounce that in your head [djuh-who-tee'] or [teh-who-tee'] that sounds like a real name that many people wouldve had, making it more than just a pseudonym or a characterization, but its probably like Moses or Adam, etc., like these are super common names probably. But anyway, Poseidon adds a whole nother wrinkle to the story. It is why we would have to split these two stories up, as we are opening a very weird can of worms by going in both directions, Alas i thought yous might find this interesting. And if yous have anything yous wanna add, know, or say~or if you wanna know more about the things im writing about, on Poseidon, i mean, feel free to just let it roll off the tongue. And I realize that it might be too much on ppl, too much for yas to digest. Nothin wrong w/ that.

part ii I tried looking for people who, i thought wouldve understood this instinctively (as it seems fairly obvious), cause like i thought this was just everyones assumed mind set, right? But apparently, not many people understood this, or atleast, they couldnt internalize it as such... (def., there is alot, alot, alot of ppl who havent even started on the first like, first literal stage?) As im not really saying anything different than what actualized dot org is, and its relationship to the self experience, the system, atleast from the very first point of Philosophically delving into the self. I guess thats the problem. I started looking for people, in a world where they wouldnt have already mastered self inquiry, so therefore the fundamentals around the keyboard were also sortve an unknown~atleast on that plane/dimension i was in, which is a long story as to what im speaking to~but you can imagine.

~part i The more I got a chance to think about what im tryina capture, as well as what im tryina express through The Unix Philosophy Its not necessarily about "design patterns or programmatic architecture", or how to code things (though, on Linux that is important given the nature of Linux, and, atleast in its case, the ability to design things in a somewhat complimentary way...) Rather, its more like, the ability to gain *insight into a system (Linux, and the programs within it, ideally) and to understand those systems. If even its "just enough to use the system", which is what we are really targeting at first, right. Like its more subtractive in a way, and more about stripping it all down (more like a Philosophy or spiritual practice) Afterwards, it can then take on these analytical, additive elements, something i kindve think of as "applying even pressure". Applying even pressure around all facets of the program, or the kernel, or around the environment, etc., like you are then applying everything evenly, whether it be "researching" or "updating" or "maintaining" or "fixing an ongoing project..." i mean, there's any countless number of things that is implied by The Unix Philosophy, or the stages that come after the initial 1 Unix Stage (that somewhat encapsulates it... though there is more that i want to say... And those are just the bare basics) 1 Unix Stage 2 Unix Terminal/Shell 3 ... ^Like its something like that, is what im tryina say, atleast from my perspective. I mean, everyone is attacking it from different point, so you have to acclimate it somewhat from your own perspective, and try to get it to be more Unix-like, Unix in the Philosophical sense we described here (not the Old Unix-literally speaking, as I dont know whats in them old books/articles)

ya true. Hey, i figured out how to illustrate it. When you are jus startin out, its like you are jus learnin it, so its like buffalo bob or bill and the poodle scene. But then you get it up and running~which doesnt take long, and its then like this John Wick sequence (mind you, if you are into like audio nd stuff, im not sure its a good switch, cause theres no Ableton live... you gotta go in non ableton routes... which is fine, as theres lota interesting programs in the works) *p.s. iuno what linux would have to do w/ dogs, as im more of a cat person myself but i guess it has somethin to do w/ dogs, maybe the cunningness of a dog or sumthin

Im really great at marketing things to people, you know. "You ever seen that movie where Buffalo Bill/Bob has the girl down the well, and shes like, Mr. Im gonna kill your dog" the experience is exactly like that. You know? Get me on the marketing team.

O ya'. Linux will do that to yah. Its like the movie hostile (2005), when they say, "where is this art show..." The Girl is like "No, Have a drink first" And he says, "No. I don't want a drink. I wanna see some art." And then he goes there, and some random Chinese guy coming out of the show says, "You could spend all your money, in there..." You could spend All your free time in linux. And, May or may not be worth it tho ha.

Ya thats a good point.

O wow, African languages. I feel like I couldnt even get started on African languages, cause if i did it would be like black hawk down, like a stranger landing or entering into a stranger land ~type've thing. Im assuming theres lots of languages, the congo and tribals underneath, to the west/somalia, to south africa, to the east morocco and such, to the north, libya/algeria... I think theres weird islands too, like in that Gulf of Aden / Arabian Sea area maybe it was~where you had an island with places named by some explorer from the Netherlands or something. Something weird like that that seemed out-of-place. Im just putting the pieces together now, cause your name is Japanese sounding. I see it. I guess its hard to tell by names what someone is, or learned growing up, cause everything is like, part of our fantasy character~or atleast, playing into one of the characters that we want to illustrate. There's this one Japanese-script extension called kara katakana that i like. It jus extends the glyphs/sounds (i think for the purpose of communicating with Koreans, or vice versa... something like that) And its deceptively hard to find information about. Where i first seen it~that is, a subtle depiction of it, was in Dreamcastle™s thumbnails, and then i found it on omniglot https://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/karahiragana.php Ive not investigated japanese beyond that, as i was jus looking at writing systems.

Thats amazing you bring up Unix, I've been trying to get people to see it as The Unix Philosophy, in terms of what Linux's direction really sat upon, and what those paradigms are still really sitting on. And after @Joseph Maynor made that connection of the backend-to Linux, that is potentially a way to frame it. I mean, alot of the puzzle pieces are there, right, like I just so happen to have spent time looking at the terminal/shell, fonts, language, etc., neglected portions that no ones really gotten into as i have, but thats fine cause, these terms that yous may have mentioned bein funny, they are actually funny to me cause they are like, the direction im really trying to paint vividly on the walls~in order for it to be seen. Thinking of it as a Philosophy is really quite important as well, though its a Philosophy thats very frontal lobe... i mean, its not that hard tbh im makin it sound like tha, plus you hav me to lend your ear to in that regard (We have ChatGPT now, so alot of those conversations can be sortve, brainstormed w/ Ai first, to get started, or to get a sense of the questions you should be asking, or areas that yous are curious of... And i dont mean to elect yous specifically, i just mean "Anyone who is interested... or that wants to spend some weeks gettin in the weeds w/ some fairly crazy stuff")

Thats a nice way to put it. As i think i think of it like that, or atleast, the desktop experiences need some work, given they are fighting against the older paradigns, nd really just gotta go fully in one direction or the other, leaving the base Unix backend-ish to dwell on its own, and the more modern to go in what usually is questionable directions, but maybe they can work on it nd make it into something interesting, or just very solid and familiar... I mean, i have alot of ideas~granted its in the backend space, figuratively speaking. Iuno, i guess its a long story. ive not found anyone that i can lend an ear to, to really delve deep into it jus yet. Hey, dont get me started here, or ya know, or ill turn this into a very very long conversation thatll blow up the servers. or itll set a new record~for longist consecutive posts/characters sent in a session.

Im lookin for a real substantial scene from utube, but in the meanwhile

We may get into things that require pulling from passages of Hermetic tradition (theres various related compilations of), as well as Greek Literature, Hymn and Mythology, The Odyssey and Theogony, etc., but I wanted to start from some point, some initialization on our staggering history of magick on Earth. I just thought Jesus was the best point, but i guess medieval period couldve been a place to start, going backwards towards ancient history. *p.s. notice everything i write reads like music, cause thats actually important to this. As, in Ancient Greek tradition, "speech" is intertwined w/ actions, as well as patterns of behavior w/ symbolic meanings (thats how i read it phrased in "The Masters of Truth in Archaic Greece" anyway -of which i'm still reading).

So just to give some context first, and then ill resolve everything at the end, so dont worry (yous just have to bare w/ me, as theres a few things i have to explain) The most important text here is probably the Testament of Solomon, a Greek pseudepigraphical work that presents itself as Solomon narrating how he commanded demons to build the Temple; It describes specific demons by name, their functions, the celestial forces that bind them, and the verbal/ritual means of compelling them. This is not fringe material, as it sits in a direct line from the broader Solomonic tradition, which in Second Temple Judaism assoc. Solomon w/ wisdom over spirits based on a passage in the book of Kings ~that later interpreters expanded enormously! Closely related are the texts found at Qumran, particularly the Songs of the Maskil and 11QApocryphal Psalms (11Q11), which contain explicit verbal formulas directed against demons. These are the earliest datable examples we have of something functioning like conjuration within a Jewish-proto-Christian framework, from roughly the 1st century BCE. The practitioner speaks directly at hostile spirits, invoking divine names and attributes to repel or bind them. Jesus performs exorcisms constantly in gospels. Alas, the gospel writers are somewhat particular in distinguishing/scrubbing or writing around it, such that later, it'd not be recognized as what contemporaries might call conjuration (note, that I summarize this word at the very end). The distinction is in ἐξουσία (exousia — authority, inherent power) and τέχνη (technique, craft). When Jesus commands an unclean spirit in Mark 1, the crowd's reaction is specifically astonishment that he speaks with authority and not as the scribes: names, formulas, and ritual is scrubbed. ἐξουσία is the one the gospel and epistle writers are conveying~for Jesus and by delegation for his followers, and τέχνη is the one that has to be written around, suppressed, or reframed, otherwise you get some fairly surprising stuff happening. Then you have the curious ep., Acts 19 (the sons of Sceva) seven itinerant Jewish exorcists who try to use Jesus's name as a conjuration formula against a demon, essentially treating "the name of Jesus" as a powerful voces magicae. The demon responds by saying it knows Jesus and Paul but not them, and physically attacks them. Jesus, the Necromancer, scrubbed from history. The Greek Magical Papyri (PGM) from Egypt?, 2nd-5th centuries CE, are indispensable, as they contain explicit syncretic material, including invocations of Iao, Adonai, Sabaoth, and by the later papyri, Jesus, alongside Egyptian and Greek divine names. These show you the actual working-level religious technology of the period, as opposed to the theological positions of the canonical writers. The presence of Judaeo-Christian divine names in the PGM tells us that these names were understood in the broader Hellenistic-Egyptian religious marketplace as particularly powerful voces magicae, regardless of what the nascent church thought about By the 2nd-3rd century CE the church fathers are actively theorizing, Origen in particular, Contra Celsum, discusses the power of names at considerable length — arguing that divine names carry intrinsic power tied to their sound and form, not merely their meaning~a striking concession to the logic of conjuration, even as Origen is trying to distinguish Christian practice from it (Tertullian and later John Chrysostom are playing a part in treating anything magical-in-nature as bad and deceptive... shameful) "Shame" is a sudden feature in the first century that previously hadnt been treated like OMG, whys everyone naked. Why are there zombies and demons in the literature, get it out! Like, if Jesus's name genuinely compels demons — which the exorcism tradition absolutely insists it does — then what exactly is the difference between that and conjuration? The answer that the tradition reaches for is the exousia distinction, the name works as a formula~activating impersonal cosmic machinery, as well as for personal, delegated divine authority. ---------------------------------- P.s. What is "conjuration" In Early Christianity? Conjuration is described as a process or act that involves invoking or summoning spiritual entities. This practice is explored in terms of its effects on both the soul and demons, as well as their responses to such acts. The examination of conjuration highlights its significance in understanding spiritual interactions within the framework of early Christian beliefs (and its not to dismiss incantations, inscriptions, invocation, evocation, necromancy, ritualistic ceremony, sacred offerings, divination, psychic/telepathic powers, etc.,"to conjure<something>" pertaining to all of these too) ⸸ conjuration is the reverse ~upside down~ cross, abjuration ☥ is the ankh, the upright up-cross, leading of either a spirit, or your soul, either abjuring to~or conjuring from (realm of the dead)

Ha. You into Artix? I know people who are real into Gentoo but, ALas i will never have the time to investigate~anything more than what i wouldve looked at before, Arch & Debian-based, due to time restraints, and the amount of stuff i got going on now. I have done LFS, but that too im not sure i have time to maintain, given the direction ive already started. But LFS is def very interesting too, and i may return to that world someday. Theres just so much i got to do first.

Arch (Artix)

Oh wow, nice. Hey, bring it back. Make a BSD thread jk (i do really like BSD variants, certain ones have things that like, dang that wsht woulda been the best if it was paired w/ linux... maybe that requires a discussion/collab, LFS thread...)

Cuneiform of Assyrian/Akkadian like that of Asherbanipal is horrific. I was just looking at this this morning, and my godis it not intelligble at all, as its more like How to document words that might mean something later, like its got so many incoherent phrases that couldve implied any number of things. And then someone shows Cuneiform to the hebrews or maybe the canaanites and they start using real letters pressed into cuneiform tablets, like going back to the literal stone age of communication, sending the people backwards like some flight of the phoenix into god knows what (Clay tablets are like the twitter of real materials, wood, runestone columns and petra, and skin, and paper...) Imean, we could prolly name all the writing systems and languages in one message, unless it includes like, very intricate african/south american and islander languages, who have questionable writing systems, if they even have writing systems. Like lets see here: Arabic, Aramaic (Syrian-Aramaic, etc), Indian lineage, Asian lineage, Turkish and the various ones in and around Persia and Turkiye... Like Going through mountains and Caspian Sea Latin & Greek (we just went one column over...) Bulgarian, Serbian, Ukrainian, Russian, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian, Macedonian.... Baltic Sea Lithuanian, Latvian and Old Prussian Albanian... Armenian, cause yous prolly get em confused like i do... Romance/Castellano languages (Prior Italic/Etruscan and variants), Irish ppl languages, i.e. Welsh, Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Breton.. Germanic English, Frisian, Dutch, Flemish, German, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Icelandic, Faroese, Luxembourgish, Old Norse (Gothic and various ones) Finnish Sign Languages I need an English-Estonian dictionary... Oh you cant forget Tolkien's Gnomish and Quenya (based languages, for everything else in the lotr legend) *Note, I was looking through the Unicode Character Table, and there is some crazy crazy writing systems for some of the recorded & well known aboriginal and tribal peoples

Yas pulled out an old memory, i cant even remember this thread, or wat we was on. Was i in here tlkin bout linux too?

@Mixcoatl We can atleast say that "truth" (generally) is something you can point at (direct towards), for yourself, and unto others. That gives you truth as more of a "locus". At some point, *language itself, and words like ego and truth take on different forms/meanings, and what was once the "looking for truth" become something more akin to reality itself ~So Truth is not always the destination, in the search for truth (that is in the context of our whole lives being a testament to truth, or rather, the "attempt to discern"). Truth evolves. In discerning truth, you are distilling something alchemical. We are *occupied by the perception of limitations and truths of experience, Ergo on one end, we are taking up the space via * these other forms. And so therefore, that which exists, exists Now, as well as that which we are moving or facing is itself [there] but in a sense we just dont perceive it beyond "the happenings that we think are called truth" And just to conclude this, there's two different destinations on the path of the Philosopher~which has to do w/ this initial relaxing of the Ousia of the self, and the acknowledgement around the Istemi~ its something akin to a direction or arrow that links the inner and outer models, that which leads to a sort of truth of the matter. Though, calling it "truth" (as opposed to "a truth") is a bit odd, because then there's this other road that builds on the distillations of truth, which is a separate sortve path, and it doesnt necessary encapsulate the istemi, though it doesnt exclude it. It does assume one should be atleast somewhat familiar w/ it as a possibility, as these two things, *truth and the -istemi towards, are somewhat tangential in nature. Or maybe it should be phrased as, "istemi exists to deepen the distillation" (or vice versa)

Its a good question, and im gonna look for a book on short introductions (likely yous are touching on~anything that crosses the multiple realms we've been talking about... Religion, Philosophy, Physiology/Biology or Ancient Medicine... Grammar, or Languages, or the Arts... Logic, as well as Spiritual or Mystical things that counter, or compliment Rational Logic) And on the topic of Religion ~ or the realm right before, this word "soteriology" -> The study or doctrine of salvation definitely applies to Christianity. I just so happened to be looking at it in this moment. Edit: There might be a title for the study of "that which exists right before Christianity" but i dont know what it is, and its fairly new if it does exist, or atleast i didnt know there was a such thing, beyond "the study of antiquity"? Maybe? @Joseph Maynor Oh okay. That actually helps alot. Theology is gonna be, "The study of the nature of God and religious truth", Aristotle i of course know well, and thats gonna be the following (These are basically what Aristotle's treatises are called too): 1. Logic -> technical explanations for categories around substance, quantity and quality, statements, affirmations, earliest language around "logic" 2. Pychology, Biology 3. Metaphysics, or First Principles & Being; Metaphysics referring to qua being; substance; form and matter; et caetera 4. Ethics and Politics - how to live and organize society 5. Rhetoric and Poetics (which is on language, persuasion, art) p.s. i had written on Aristotle, so i had categories all laid out in front of me already, lol. Anyway, yous can use that to find books.

Bonus Ques., #2: And this is more getting into the individual provinces, like Sparta, Athens, etc, etc., which is for instance, Why were Spartans so obsessed w/ being warriors (or why were the people of the community, both the elders and the warriors, why were they thinking you needed some dedicated warrior foundation & fundamentals to attack, defend and strategize)? Like, Ive not looked outside of the basic warrior-aspect of Sparta, as I was originally focused on Sparta from the perspective of the outcasts, the Spartans who were kicked out and who ended up sailing to Italy (Puglia, where my ancestors are from. but my ancestors definitely were not big strong, warrior-minded people at all, so iuno who the fk is related to Spartans) And so like, that is a whole nother side of the Spartans most people dont know of; But if we stay in mainland Greece, we see how Spartans really rely on Athenians and others to learn words and grammar and such... Like, they werent dumb or anything like that, but they needed a little help to get going, cause they were sortve fixated on war (im describing this wrong, cause its part of their role in society to be warriors, but the question is how you join, and how you leave/besides through banishment to leave, being very young when you join~or so they say~and is a question i have, and i dont know how that process works), nevertheless they sound like traumatized souls, dark souls in terms of the way they are to be this cloister of warriors, but i guess the military is this same idea, or similar. But that is to say that there is more complexity to these stories that we need to dig up to really understand them, and im just naming Sparta and Athens cause they are the two most recognizable, though i meant to really touch on other cultures~And accidentally go caught up describing Sparta. In any case, that is one such question.

Bonus Ques.: Is there a connection to Orphic tradition, and the musicians within that context? Atleast, those are the sortve of questions that also connect back to this, granted, *Orpheus in itself is complex, and could be opening up a can of fiery worms Note: I had Greek Mythology and related in High School (im 37) lol, but i mean to say, back when i was 17-18, this was the only subject I was interested in, cause the teacher was talking about like, "How so & so represented the boy's penis" ~in the story~ Not that i remember what we were talking about, But im just saying, this stuff was cool. Like the computer class was cool too, but i kept getting in trouble during the last two years of school, for me. So Mythology was more up my aily, in the sense that~it was accepting of chaos. If yous arent accepting of Chaos, i cant really shine. Like i have a theory that the reason the Old Norse/Germanic side got turned onto Christianity was cause they were essentially striving for order, and not true chaos. However, its possible they didnt have a true understanding of it either, and were just initially thinking of Jesus as "another god" in the pantheon, that which represented and orderly living. This may not be true, and ive not investigated it, but i just have a feeling. That is, I feel as though, the chaos goes where the chaos was made, and somewhere around the Greek and Roman interaction, theres a real chaotic thing preserved, that which is in between Jesus and the Bronze Age Collapse, and these events where its like, you have all these cultures who are like, uprooting their own traditions, and relocating. We dont know alot about it, cause ive tried to look back into history to find out, and we simply dont know enough, outside of say Greek writers/commentary and Egyptian records (who btw, are very thorough in naming all the cultures, Alas thats not what i mean to talk about) I mean to direct our attention towards what I call Mythological Period, up to today. Like, on the surface, it my seem like it goes from hunter gatherers, to farming, to proto-civilization, but its more like, cycles of life, and we are misunderstanding, in living form, like. We cant understand history because we are that far away, but we can, in the very least, say how we feel about it, and why it happened the way we think it happened, using our misunderstanding as a way of pointing to that which mightve happened.

This might be confusing, as i didnt really preface w/ "why it would be weighted", based on something from the context of the history, so lets see if yous figure it out on your own and reconstruct it for me, cause its part of the process for the rest of the idea. For you have this healthy dose of certain worlds~or ideas from ppl~adding to the conversation, and it builds upon what is like an idea that may have more potential once you think deeply into it. And maybe its just really really interesting, and thats it. You never know though when youve crossed an idea thats gonna cascade into something else, and into something else. Like we're just brainstorming.