Vajra

I see that many people here think they have realized the truth. Like - 'I am you', 'God is everything', 'Reality is infinite'. Why should that be true? What makes you think so? I will likely get answers such as - 'no, no. you don't understand — I directly realize and experience it!' or 'dude, get the fuck out of here, you know nothing, of course God is The Only Thing.' Well, I'm not necessarily here to argue with you about these points, I'm just saying... it seems like a lot of knowledge derived from meditative states, or psychedelic states, or spiritual insights etc. That's nice and cool, but it's still knowledge. Isn't it? I wonder if there is anyone out there who could prove to me, or show me, or convince me that they ACTUALLY REALIZE THE TRUTH. Thanks. I think it will be nice to introduce this scepticism, and if your realization is real, it should hold its own against it. Tell me! Don't be shy Love, Vajra

Practicing Dream Yoga is valuable. Here is how it goes: First the physical body is put to sleep. With the physical body asleep consciousness naturally moves into the subtle plane. This is just "above" the physical plane, or "layered on top of it". Here we find that activity is also going on, and we can either consciously engage here in some subtle activity. Or we can put the subtle body to sleep as well and continue onwards. After the subtle plane consciousness naturally moves into the higher-mental plane. The higher-mental plane is, again, "above" the subtle plane or as if "layered on top of it". Like in the physical and subtle planes, we discover activity is going on here too. We can consciously engage in higher-mental activity here, or put the higher-mental body to sleep. As all these three bodies, which seem to be a natural manifestation of the human being, are asleep, a kind of alignment is created due to the lack of activity—a pathway. This is the Pathway into the Clear Light. The Clear Light is where we also go after death, thus learning how to remain conscious on the way to It while we are alive Prepares us for the moment of Death and Teaches us how to remain Conscious during it. That is the Value of Dream Yoga!

In this journal I'd like to introduce myself, speak about myself, and share my experience. ~~~ First Realization: There is an utter lack of suffering. Suffering is erased. Permanently. Why do I claim that? The core of suffering has been seen through. It is the belief in a self that can suffer. With this seeing through, suffering cannot occur. Why am I saying it is permanent? The wisdom has been gained. Suffering has always been a certain "pathway" in the mind based on going in circles around the thought 'I'. Since it has been recognized that such thought is completely relative and fundamentally empty, there is no suffering. Second Realization: I Am God. In other words, I Am Self. In other words still, I Am Consciousness. This has been growing by giving myself to selfless action. The belief 'I am the body' is based on the habit of the body moving in self-serving ways. Once we start breaking that, we continuously give our actions over to Something Greater, the Realization dawns that We Are that Something Greater. From here, life is lived in service to the Whole, so much so, that we cannot tell the difference between ourselves and the Whole. THAT IS IT. Third Realization: Unity with the Power of Creation. The Realization that Nature herself, as that which moves the body, speech, thoughts — everything, cannot be separated from me. That we are forever together, non-separate, One. The way I wrote it can sound very relativistic. Like these are distinct realizations. Not really. I write them down like this as, in my experience, people go through these realizations separately, one by one, or (mostly) not all at once. Some go through just one of them, few through two, very few through all three. Most through none, of course. Living "all three of them", or actually we might not even divide it anymore at this point... Living THIS is Living, Knowing, and Realizing Reality. Kindly, V

Loving the ego to death? How? Where is the button? You must love yourself just how a man loves a woman—with Passion. That's how the love reaches the Depths of You. Love that is Intimacy. That Is The Way.

But guys, don't you see the joke? Many of you are speaking to me as if I am not God-Realized and need to become God-Realized and that will solve it. But how do you know I am not God-Realized? You might say - "Well, because you don't sound like it. You are speaking as if you are ignorant. It's just obvious." Oh, really? But then you already seem to have some method for recognizing who is God-Realized or not (however accurate or inaccurate it might be). And still you are denying that it's not existent, or not useful, or or ... While you are using it, it is existent there for you ... ... ... Don't you see? You are not free from it. You are, maybe subconsciously or something, engaging in such a method all the time. All I want is to clarify this already existing between us method. The method that causes the assumption oh this guy is not God-Realized or oh this guy is God-Realized. I want to find a way for that method to stop being wild guesses, and become Real.

Yeah, that's great. But imagine if we could somehow really hone this ability. Bring clarity to this specific issue, just how we are bringing clarity to things like... what is mind, what is thought, what is perception, what is God. I mean it is important, no? To be able to tell who is God-Realized and who is not? Many people come to this forum, singing their songs of God and Oneness and Stuff... Who's telling the truth and who is not? .... Weeeell, this one's writing kinda creates a pleasant feeling in my body... so it must be true. Bullshit! We need more CLARITY! More HONESTY!! REALITY!!!

Cool, so you don't know for sure. That's humility. That opens the door to real investigation, doesn't it? But it's not always like that, is it? You come down from the highs. You are able to speak to me now, you are not so drowning in God-Realization that this possibility is not here. If we are able to speak, we are probably able to investigate interesting topics — such as how do we discover if someone is Truly God-Realized, or just lying or deluded.

These are interesting comments. It would imply that somehow you can "intuit" who is God-Realized or not. This seems to be coming closer. But you must admit that being able to intuit it is very vague — no real clarity or understanding or realizing how that works there. Just a tid-bit.

So you are saying that you do know that there is no way to do it. Ok, interesting. You are also saying that my desire to know is .... basically ignorance. Don't see why. Can't a God-Realized being be curious, wanting to discover new things, love life?

You can pretty easily prove which individual is a man and which is a woman (not considering the LGBTQ circumstances now). Ok, so... you don't know. You don't know how to prove if someone is God-Realized or not. Yes?

@Davino OK, then for somebody to prove that an individual is God-Realized: a) the receiver has to be God-Realized also b) there might be more requirements cool. What are the other requirements?

And btw, I'll say it again, cause you guys are constantly implying it. I did not say I'm not God-Realized. I'm simply inquiring as to this: Don't assume!

Ok, so we have a few things here. Davino is saying that it CAN be proven whether someone is God-Realized or not but in order for it to be proven to me, I myself have to be God-Realized. In other words, one's God-Realization can be proven only to another God-Realized individual. OK. Javfly33 is saying that it's not possible to prove that an individual is God-Realized. Salvijus is saying that we can prove it through something he calls "taste". Wow, we got a lot of opinions here. Can we come to some consensus? Who's telling the truth? (Aaand of course @Bazooka Jesus and @Arthogaan and @Davino are joking around also something... YEP )

Let me clarify it even more. The contemplation here IS NOT: "What is God-Realization?" or "What is God?" It IS: "How can we tell if a person who is speaking about God-Realization is speaking only from memory, what he read, what he heard... or from, through, and as God-Realization?" We are dancing around it. Playing around. Not answering the question. It seems like nobody here has the answer.

But would you say that some people come to this Realization that you just described and some not? The masses on the street... are they conscious of this? Is there any difference between these individuals and you? If not... well then, maybe you are not God-Realized. Or are in some other way. Or it's some kind of another thing. But if there IS a difference between that individual that I am writing to right now and any random individual who considers themselves to be a separate entity, then I am asking you (this body-mind that I am writing to right now, that individual, or seeming individual), to somehow tell me how I can know that you really are not experiencing yourself as that separate self.

@Yimpa Great! Than tell me! If you are God-Realized, or partly or something similar... I don't know how you call it. Is there a way for you to show me that you really are? That you are not just repeating some spiritual words you heard earlier? Or is there none?

as in you're not interested in clear communication anymore? in speaking to others? in relationship?

@Javfly33 @Yimpa @Davino You guys probably didn't read what I am really asking... I explained more in detail as the conversation went. I am not asking - prove to me God. I am asking - prove to me that you are God-Realized. There is a difference. We are speaking here about a relative thing. An individual Realizing that they are God. And that becomes ESPECIALLY important, when that individual is claiming something like - I am more Realized than this person, or that person, or anybody in the world. That's a VERY relativistic claim. If you claim that, show me some proof, tell me how you know, or how I can know. Don't just say it and have us believe.

My point here seems to be: Is God-Realization really just limited to having a personal discovery of it and then speaking about it? Moreover, speaking about it such, that we cannot prove it, or really show the other person the truth of it, that all we can say is DISCOVER IT FOR YOURSELF? Could it be that there is more? Much more? Much much more? Just trying to push the limits, of what we believe God-Realization is, where its boundaries lie, what can be "done" with it. Thanks All 🖐️

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Yeah, cummunication has become a theme in the last couple posts... <3

Ok. You are saying a God-Realized person can only communicate completely that they are God-Realized to another God-Realized individual. Might be!

Ok, so you are saying God cannot distinguish individuals. Humans can, humans have that ability. God doesn't. Therefore humans have an ability that God doesn't. Possible... why not, but then God is something limited and conditioned under that kind of a description. Correct?

"You take the limits of communucation for granted." I don't. I am saying - find a way to communicate to me (such that I will have no doubt) that you are God-Realized. You are saying it's not possible. That is, you are imposing limits on communication here. Am I right?

"God has no ability to distinguish between a God-Realized individual and non-God-Realized individual." — is that an expression of stupidity or intelligence?