Caoimhin

I used to believe all the new thought and new age spiritual stuff in this community and what Leo taught... however, there is something to consider... What if psychedelics and alien consciousness is the wisdom of ancient demonic spirits that are seeking your own destruction? Who or what do you spiritual invite in when you take psychedelics or accept alien consciousnesses?... They don't give you wisdom for free... Many times Leo has said that he was close to killing himself on these trips... This is exactly what demons do. They give you all this wisdom and love bomb you just so that they can kill you or steal your soul... Don't take this lightly. If you are right it doesn't matter what you believe or think. But if I'm right then it does matter. Praying for your souls. Peace be with you.

Just to plant a seed or a thought... I'm not saying there is no life on other planets. What I'm saying is the spiritual entities we encourage or get wisdom from might not be who or what we think they are... Lucifer disguises himself as an angel of light... What if these beings or consciousness hate you and want to destroy you. How would something so ancient and sinister try to destroy you? ... They wouldn't outright tell you... “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12 Praying for your souls. Peace be with you.

Stop seeking spiritual awakening. Seek true humility. I've only ever found that in Christianity. A true self denial that allows for Christ to live in us and make us new. the litany of humility: ○ Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me. From the desire of being esteemed, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being loved, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being extolled, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being honored, Deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being praised, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being preferred to others, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being consulted, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being approved, Deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being humiliated, Deliver me, Jesus, From the fear of being despised, Deliver me, Jesus From the fear of suffering rebukes, Deliver me, Jesus From the fear of being calumniated, Deliver me, Jesus From the fear of being forgotten, Deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being ridiculed, Deliver me, Jesus From the fear of being wronged, Deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being suspected, Deliver me, Jesus That others may be loved more than l, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be esteemed more than |, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be chosen and I set aside, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be praised and I unnoticed, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it That others may be preferred to me in everything, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may become holier than l|, provided that I may become as holy as I should, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

Did the Gospel writers or the writers of the new testament believe this or have this intention when writing? Did the apostles believe this? Did the early church believe this? Because if they didn't believe this, then what you are doing is creating meanings that aren't there. I used to believe the same thing until I actually read the new testament and it's very clearly not the case. The level of mental gymnastics you must do to maintain these ideas while reading the new testament is Olympic level... It's very clear that not many of you have even read the new testament because the theory falls apart almost immediately, even if you go in wanting to believe that.... And if you disregard the new testament because you don't believe religion can be true or rather that Christianity is not as developed... Then why claim Christ consciousness as a thing when you don't even believe the most historical accounts of Christ? Do you know what Christ even thought? Because he never once taught anything remotely close to these new age and new thought theories... He talked a lot about Jewish scripture , Jewish prophecy and Jewish laws and the old testament.... Therefore to know Christ or his teachings, you must know what he's referring to and not read him out of context... These theories are baseless and very lazy conspiracies that I also used to believe, until I actually read the Bible.

I'm curious if Leo has even looked into Eastern Orthodox theology deeply. I ask this because i was watching a video by an Orthodox father and he mentioned that all the saints are fragments of the personality of Christ. This made me think about part of Leo's evolving philosophy. I know Leo made a video in the past about Islam but I don't think Leo knows much about ancient Christian theology and Christian mysticism. I think the way Leo dismisses Christian theology is missing the depth that is in Christianity, and I mean Orthodox/Catholic, not evangelicalism.

I challenge anyone to study the saints, read devotional books, and the Bible and not become a Christian. For me, I was stuck in new age and new thought for years, however I realized that I grew more and more enslaved to spiritual practices that wouldn't give me long term peace. I grew neurotic, spiritually arrogant and profoundly self centered. If I'm God, then it's what I want and what I manifest that determines reality. It is prideful and arrogant and narcissistic. I selfishly used people and tried to manipulate reality to get what I want and what's worse is I thought I was being "loving". However, returning to Christianity, I realized that it was the only religion of true humility. All other religions are about you saving yourself through works and practices. However in Christianity the idea is total surrender to the will of God. The foundational piece that got me is this: you can't do good unless God does good through you. I recommend studying the Christian mystics and reading the Bible with awareness that it's all about Christ's sacrifice, even the old testament refers to Christ. Ex: The ram stuck in the thorn bush that took Isaac's place as a sacrifice, Jonah being thrown into the ocean to calm God's wrath, Job's trials of faith and surrender, the Passover lamb and the manna in the desert, etc. do it as an experiment, I know a lot of you have read a lot of spiritual books, however, the Bible is one that most people don't give a fighting chance. You consider the Bhagavat Gita and the Tao Te Jing as having truth but discount the truth in scripture. Read books like "the Practice of the Presence of God" by Brother Lawrence, "Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence", and "the Imitation of Christ" For an added challenge pray and ask God to guide you to truth and to soften your heart... see where it takes you and after a month you can drop it if it doesn't speak to you. At least you gave it a true chance before disregarding it. I believe that if you give Christianity a genuine chance you might come to appreciate the nuance and mystery of Faith or even be on the path to sainthood yourself. I recommend the Catholic or Orthodox traditions and talking to a theologian, because they have the most connection to mysticism and true communion with Christ, not just backyard Bible study. may God bless us and have mercy on us and let His will be done through us. Fell free to reach out if you have questions or just want to chat.

@Jodistrict well put. Christianity is a heart posture and a path to the total surrender to the will of God. Through God's grace, Christ's sacrifice, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we can be made perfect.

@Santiago Ram beautiful analysis of the sermon on the mount brother.

@Santiago Ram This is very true... Honestly, though I no longer believe psychedelics are useful on the Christian path and only open your mind to corruption and demonic forces(like aliens and "angels"). I would like to see @Leo Gura actually explore wiping the slate clean and accepting Christianity on a trip or attempt to disprove it by actually studying it and praying on it. I know he won't, but If by God's grace he does, that would be an epic conversion and Leo would make a great Orthodox Saint.

@enchanted interesting connection. the issue with making this leap is that the trinity(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is always referring to Christian theological claims. It's not a metaphor or pointing to something outside of definitive Christian theology. Therefore, the Son is always Jesus and not reffering to anything else. To take it out of context would be disregarding the source material and make a metaphor that sounds nice but is baseless and ill applied. In Platonism there is a similar philosophical idea(the Good, The Intellect, the World Soul), that is a different idea and aligns more with the "trinity" you refer to. The trinity is a complex thing to grasp. I heard an Orthodox priest explain it as, the Father is all Love, the Son is all Sacrifice(we could also say God's Will manifested through Christ's perfect obedience), and the Holy Spirit is all Wisdom through which God's Will moves through His creation.

@meta_male I'm sorry you had that experience. It's difficult to have faith when there is silence. I struggle with that too, a lot. However, it's in the silence that we are called to have trust in God the most. When I struggle I read about Divine Providence, or the truth that everything happens for a reason and for our soul's greatest good. I would challenge that there is no fear in love claim, even Leo points to the intense fear of absolute love... Fear in love in is the fear of being separate from God, whom we love so much and Who loves us so much that He allows us to deny Him and to chose separation from Him. Even without belief in the Christian God, I hope that you still find value in praying for truth and guidance and are open to whatever you might be lead to. If Jesus is the truth He will make that known eventually and in divine providence. If He isn't then, you lost nothing in trying and found truth in that. "God, guide me to truth." "Lord, if you are the true, guide me to you." "God, give me the strength and courage to trust you." are a few simple prayers I said every night before falling asleep. If God can hear it and you are genuine, then He won't deny you it. If not, it was worth a shot and on judgement day you can say you gave it an honest go, and there is peace in that(assuming Christianity was true). feel free to message me.

@Princess Arabia "I challenge anyone to study the saints," is not an assumption, it's an invitation to a challenge... like in my marathon example, if i said, "I challenge anyone to train for a marathon," it's pretty open and people who have trained for a marathon are not offended because they know that the target audience are people who have not.... the second one is an assumption that people here have read spiritual books. Yes, that's an assumption. Should I not assume that people on this forum are well read? The carveout is that most people don't read the entire Bible, even most Christians haven't read the whole Bible, I know that I haven't finished it yet. Again, if i said most people haven't given running a marathon a chance, you wouldn't call this an assumption. now, there is an assumption that we are typing in the same language or if the other person exists.... so if you are going to just call everything i say an assumption, in the most general sense, I'm assuming everything. now, since you are challenging my "assumption" you can stick it to me by saying that you've read the entire Bible and studied the saints. Or you can fall into the category of people that haven't and to whom I'm addressing.

@Aaron p never read it, but nonduality is pretty simple bro.

@Princess Arabia you're assuming that I made that assumption. If someone did give Christianity 100% effort and a genuine chance then i'm not actually talking to that person. If i offered a challenge to train for a marathon for a month to see if you like it, would a person who ran a marathon and didn't like it think i was making that assumption, or would they realize that i was talking to a different audience?

@Sempiternity if your claim is true then nothing is dangerous outside your own opinions and standards. So there is no harm in being Christian for a month or a year then dropping it... also, your own belief is a snake eating it's tail because knowing and not knowing are the same. be skeptical of your own truth claims.

@Leo Gura so surrendering your will for the unknown will of God is arrogance? It is a truth claim so it is "arrogant" in that sense. But we are talking about the implications of that truth claim. The main assumption is that God loves us Perfectly through Christ. Christian mysticism is based on trusting in the unknowing of divine providence. I'm sure you've contemplated what God's love would look like if God was separate and higher than us, it would be Christ. Put the same rigor into studying Christianity and Christian mysticism as a steelman. If you can make a valid steelman argument disproving it, I invite it. I've already did for myself. Truth can't be threatened. If your right than believing anything has not consequences, so believing in anything is pointless, however we will believe in something so it might as well benefit us during this life. if Christianity is right then there is a consequence.

@Ishanga thank you for your response Ishanga. This perspective is helping a lot.

So I've gotten to a point where I'm questioning everything. I'm also considering everything. I'm not sure what is true and I guess I'm waiting for the dust to settle... How do you guys ground yourselves when reality seems groundless? I've subscribed to many things, but most signification influences have been LOA, New Thought, and certain aspects of Christianity, but everything is being considered and questioned and some things are terrifying me with the implications. All that said, I'm mentally stable and functional, I've just been having moments of intense not knowing and questioning reality...

@LoseYourvelf I think what he is pointing to is acceptance

@Ishanga yeah, i need to move more into being rather than be thinking, let that be my guide

@Someone here like a groundless ground

@Yimpa that's a good perspective

Just wanted to share a book that has radically changed how I think and has massively impacted my life in one year. This book always grounds me and reminds me of my own power. The best thing is that it is 85 pages of no BS. you could easily read in an afternoon, but if you are the thinking type and need to digest, it will take you a week or so. For me, Every sentence and every paragraph are deeply insightful and worth meditating on. Here is the link to buy the book on amazon: https://a.co/d/4hZrXJ5 (it's $3.75) here is the audio book version:

for me, because I have and ADHD story, my favorite is Scattered Minds by Gabor Mate. others are Self Therapy by Jay Earley(it's an intro book into Internal Family Systems)

Hey Guys, I went back to Leo's video on the 9 stages by Susan Cook-Greuter, but the link to the pdf didn't work. Does any one have that pdf available to share? I would like to reread it. Best