Caoimhin

I don't mean that they have died to themselves and broke free... I mean they have lost their eternal souls and are dead spiritually... What is the difference externally. We see people who temporarily escaped suffering or are just numb to it... Someone like Frank Yang you can see as a borderline demon possessed guy now totally mellowed out... did he gain peace or rather completely lose his soul ? Is he "enlightened" or just totally dead inside... Is enlightenment spiritual suicide? Is it worth gaining peace now in exchange for your eternal soul being lost? I used to want enlightenment and did all the meditation and psychedelics, however, I've since converted to Catholicism and studying theology now it doesn't seem like a good trade off... to gain the world but lose my soul. I'd rather suffer this life for Christ's sake then give up my soul for a few decades of peace here. Imagine that we are tormented by demons and that they just want to kill you, so you give them your soul to stop the torment. Like a last meal on death row, they may just let up because they already have your soul... who even knows, they might remove your soul from the body and possess it for you. Many times meditating towards enlightenment the sensation of dying or the experience of dying have been profound, but now it's a bit disturbing that if it wasn't for last minute resistance and the grace of God, I could have given up my soul... Regardless of your spiritual views, consider this. Is enlightenment worth losing your eternal soul? May the peace of Christ be with you. God bless.

Stop seeking spiritual awakening. Seek true humility. I've only ever found that in Christianity. A true self denial that allows for Christ to live in us and make us new. the litany of humility: ○ Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me. From the desire of being esteemed, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being loved, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being extolled, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being honored, Deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being praised, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being preferred to others, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being consulted, Deliver me, Jesus From the desire of being approved, Deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being humiliated, Deliver me, Jesus, From the fear of being despised, Deliver me, Jesus From the fear of suffering rebukes, Deliver me, Jesus From the fear of being calumniated, Deliver me, Jesus From the fear of being forgotten, Deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being ridiculed, Deliver me, Jesus From the fear of being wronged, Deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being suspected, Deliver me, Jesus That others may be loved more than l, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be esteemed more than |, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be chosen and I set aside, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be praised and I unnoticed, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it That others may be preferred to me in everything, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may become holier than l|, provided that I may become as holy as I should, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

Just to plant a seed or a thought... I'm not saying there is no life on other planets. What I'm saying is the spiritual entities we encourage or get wisdom from might not be who or what we think they are... Lucifer disguises himself as an angel of light... What if these beings or consciousness hate you and want to destroy you. How would something so ancient and sinister try to destroy you? ... They wouldn't outright tell you... “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12 Praying for your souls. Peace be with you.

I used to believe all the new thought and new age spiritual stuff in this community and what Leo taught... however, there is something to consider... What if psychedelics and alien consciousness is the wisdom of ancient demonic spirits that are seeking your own destruction? Who or what do you spiritual invite in when you take psychedelics or accept alien consciousnesses?... They don't give you wisdom for free... Many times Leo has said that he was close to killing himself on these trips... This is exactly what demons do. They give you all this wisdom and love bomb you just so that they can kill you or steal your soul... Don't take this lightly. If you are right it doesn't matter what you believe or think. But if I'm right then it does matter. Praying for your souls. Peace be with you.

Did the Gospel writers or the writers of the new testament believe this or have this intention when writing? Did the apostles believe this? Did the early church believe this? Because if they didn't believe this, then what you are doing is creating meanings that aren't there. I used to believe the same thing until I actually read the new testament and it's very clearly not the case. The level of mental gymnastics you must do to maintain these ideas while reading the new testament is Olympic level... It's very clear that not many of you have even read the new testament because the theory falls apart almost immediately, even if you go in wanting to believe that.... And if you disregard the new testament because you don't believe religion can be true or rather that Christianity is not as developed... Then why claim Christ consciousness as a thing when you don't even believe the most historical accounts of Christ? Do you know what Christ even thought? Because he never once taught anything remotely close to these new age and new thought theories... He talked a lot about Jewish scripture , Jewish prophecy and Jewish laws and the old testament.... Therefore to know Christ or his teachings, you must know what he's referring to and not read him out of context... These theories are baseless and very lazy conspiracies that I also used to believe, until I actually read the Bible.

I'm curious if Leo has even looked into Eastern Orthodox theology deeply. I ask this because i was watching a video by an Orthodox father and he mentioned that all the saints are fragments of the personality of Christ. This made me think about part of Leo's evolving philosophy. I know Leo made a video in the past about Islam but I don't think Leo knows much about ancient Christian theology and Christian mysticism. I think the way Leo dismisses Christian theology is missing the depth that is in Christianity, and I mean Orthodox/Catholic, not evangelicalism.

@Jodistrict well put. Christianity is a heart posture and a path to the total surrender to the will of God. Through God's grace, Christ's sacrifice, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we can be made perfect.

@Santiago Ram beautiful analysis of the sermon on the mount brother.

@Santiago Ram This is very true... Honestly, though I no longer believe psychedelics are useful on the Christian path and only open your mind to corruption and demonic forces(like aliens and "angels"). I would like to see @Leo Gura actually explore wiping the slate clean and accepting Christianity on a trip or attempt to disprove it by actually studying it and praying on it. I know he won't, but If by God's grace he does, that would be an epic conversion and Leo would make a great Orthodox Saint.

@enchanted interesting connection. the issue with making this leap is that the trinity(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is always referring to Christian theological claims. It's not a metaphor or pointing to something outside of definitive Christian theology. Therefore, the Son is always Jesus and not reffering to anything else. To take it out of context would be disregarding the source material and make a metaphor that sounds nice but is baseless and ill applied. In Platonism there is a similar philosophical idea(the Good, The Intellect, the World Soul), that is a different idea and aligns more with the "trinity" you refer to. The trinity is a complex thing to grasp. I heard an Orthodox priest explain it as, the Father is all Love, the Son is all Sacrifice(we could also say God's Will manifested through Christ's perfect obedience), and the Holy Spirit is all Wisdom through which God's Will moves through His creation.

@meta_male I'm sorry you had that experience. It's difficult to have faith when there is silence. I struggle with that too, a lot. However, it's in the silence that we are called to have trust in God the most. When I struggle I read about Divine Providence, or the truth that everything happens for a reason and for our soul's greatest good. I would challenge that there is no fear in love claim, even Leo points to the intense fear of absolute love... Fear in love in is the fear of being separate from God, whom we love so much and Who loves us so much that He allows us to deny Him and to chose separation from Him. Even without belief in the Christian God, I hope that you still find value in praying for truth and guidance and are open to whatever you might be lead to. If Jesus is the truth He will make that known eventually and in divine providence. If He isn't then, you lost nothing in trying and found truth in that. "God, guide me to truth." "Lord, if you are the true, guide me to you." "God, give me the strength and courage to trust you." are a few simple prayers I said every night before falling asleep. If God can hear it and you are genuine, then He won't deny you it. If not, it was worth a shot and on judgement day you can say you gave it an honest go, and there is peace in that(assuming Christianity was true). feel free to message me.

@Princess Arabia "I challenge anyone to study the saints," is not an assumption, it's an invitation to a challenge... like in my marathon example, if i said, "I challenge anyone to train for a marathon," it's pretty open and people who have trained for a marathon are not offended because they know that the target audience are people who have not.... the second one is an assumption that people here have read spiritual books. Yes, that's an assumption. Should I not assume that people on this forum are well read? The carveout is that most people don't read the entire Bible, even most Christians haven't read the whole Bible, I know that I haven't finished it yet. Again, if i said most people haven't given running a marathon a chance, you wouldn't call this an assumption. now, there is an assumption that we are typing in the same language or if the other person exists.... so if you are going to just call everything i say an assumption, in the most general sense, I'm assuming everything. now, since you are challenging my "assumption" you can stick it to me by saying that you've read the entire Bible and studied the saints. Or you can fall into the category of people that haven't and to whom I'm addressing.

@Aaron p never read it, but nonduality is pretty simple bro.

@Princess Arabia you're assuming that I made that assumption. If someone did give Christianity 100% effort and a genuine chance then i'm not actually talking to that person. If i offered a challenge to train for a marathon for a month to see if you like it, would a person who ran a marathon and didn't like it think i was making that assumption, or would they realize that i was talking to a different audience?

@Sempiternity if your claim is true then nothing is dangerous outside your own opinions and standards. So there is no harm in being Christian for a month or a year then dropping it... also, your own belief is a snake eating it's tail because knowing and not knowing are the same. be skeptical of your own truth claims.