Lila9

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Posts posted by Lila9

  1. Posted

    Just now, gambler said:

    All the pro Palestinian people here believe Israel has a right to exist and accepted by its neighbors. All of us condemn the terrorism of Hamas. We all believe in the right of Jews to live with dignity and the freedom to live non-violently. None of the pro Israel crowd here gives two sheckels about Palestinian suffering. The entire time this conflict went on, they kept trying to detract and minimize the suffering inflicting. But of course, we’re heavily manipulated it seems. 

    It’s not what appears in the comments. I have read them and was horrified by the level of hatred towards Israel and the lack of genuine willingness to understand, whether direct or subtle. If this is the vibe, the responses from the pro-Israel perspective will naturally be more defensive because they feel attacked.

    The Palestinian suffering matters, and if you ask me personally, it matters to me a lot. But it’s not easy. If you are an Israeli living in Israel for a while, who has either survived or experienced terror attacks by Palestinians, or lost someone you know because of a terror attack by a Palestinian, when you see Palestinians celebrating the October 7 attacks or any terror attacks on Israelis, you naturally associate Palestinians with fear of death and loss of your security. From this place, it’s difficult to empathize with them, because of fear. The fear of death is huge. It’s difficult to be more empathetic to the suffering of those who hurt you than to your own suffering and the suffering of your people, family, and community.

    If you ask a Palestinian, “Do you empathize with the suffering of Israelis, who lost their innocent loved ones in terror attacks, have seen their parents or children killed by Hamas terrorists in the most brutal ways, or some radicalized Palestinian boys, were captured by Hamas, or know someone dear to them who was captured by Hamas?” would they find it easy or difficult to empathize with the suffering of Israelis?

    They would very likely find it difficult to empathize with Israelis, especially if they or their families experienced any hurt from Israelis. And you would 100% understand them, and you would be correct to do so.

    Because it is only human to find it difficult to empathize with those who have hurt you, misled you, and proved you wrong.

    It would be wrong to expect sainthood from people who have been hurt, whether they are Israelis or Palestinians. Humans, at their core, are very similar to each other. We are very myopic and shortsighted because of survival.

    So why doesn’t the same standard apply to Israelis, who are heavily traumatized by what you see as the “Palestinian resistance”?

    We are a traumatized nation. Whether it’s by the long Jewish history of persecution or by the terror Israelis experienced on this land. Could you understand that? I am not saying that justifies any killings of innocent Palestinians, definitely not. but when you are traumatized to your core, it is difficult to acknowledge the suffering of others because you yourself are in pain and fear and in defense mode. You need to make some effort, do some work, and find some healing in order to recognize the suffering of your enemy and seek solutions.

    I say “enemy,” and I don’t really mean it because Palestinians are not my enemies, not our enemies in the absolute sense. They are actually our family. Like any other nation, we are all part of the huge human family.

    I want them to see Jews as their lost family and to seek reconciliation rather than destruction. I want them to channel their rage in a productive way to prosper. I want to see their children reach adulthood and live long lives without dying early by becoming martyrs. I want them to have a resistance, because they deserve it, but the kind that doesn’t celebrate the death of innocents or follow an Islamic ideology to liberate a piece of stone (Al-Aqsa in Jerusalem).

    Maybe then it would be much more easier to Israelis to see them and to empathize with their suffering, and the tragedy of נכבה. Because then, we wouldn’t be in a constant defense mode.  And it would be also more difficult to our leaders to manipulate us using fear because we will see in our eyes that Palestinians have no intentions to harm us. Which unfortunately isn’t the case now, especially after the October 7.

    I often feel like the pro-Palestinian perspective justifies their low-consciousness behavior and accepts their dysfunctionality simply because they believe they are right.

    It’s like a mother allowing a child, whose toy was stolen, taken, sold, or suddenly disappeared, to hurt himself and others in his rage simply because he is right. without attempting to guide him to channel his rage in a productive manner, toward healing and prosperity, and into a better adulthood.

     

     

  2. Posted

    9 minutes ago, gambler said:

    Israel has shown in the 70s that if there is a real threat to its survival, it will likely nuke its neighbors. So be honest and say it will likely end with the destruction of Palestine. 

    I am not a fortune teller nor a prophet. You assign me a big role. How could I possibly know?

    All I can confidently say now is that the two-state solution appears very impossible. This may change in the next 50 years for better or for worse, either for the Israelies, the Palestinians, or both. No one can predict this, and I don’t believe in anyone’s predictions or anyone who pretends to be a fortune teller or prophet, no matter how wise or intellectual they may be. It’s all talk. Let’s wait and see.

     

  3. Posted

    This is an interesting thread and I value the attempt to penetrate the delusions of what you call the “Zionist project”. This is interesting to view ourselves from a different perspective.

    A truthful gaze at any aspect of human existence is what humanity collectively needs the most. 

    I have watched some of the content and I can understand the backlash that Israel receives, to some extent. But it appears that this thread is an echo chamber of convincing those who are already convinced. This thread is a big bias confirmation pool.
     
    This thread gives the impression that the Palestinian perspective is intact of delusions, corruption, manipulation.

    One may have been heavily manipulated by the Palestinian point of view but he will never know that. 

  4. Posted

    11 hours ago, Raze said:

    Palestinians attempted many legal challenges and peaceful protests, israel always responded with obstruction and violence. 

    I don’t know. Currently, Palestinians are holding parades in Gaza, calling themselves the people of Deif (the mastermind behind October 7).

    Children (younger than 10 years old) are wearing Hamas uniforms and holding guns, with confused stares. It appears they are more determined to destroy Israel than to peacefully coexist, even if it means sacrificing their prosperity and making their children martyrs. While some Palestinians genuinely want to coexist with Jews in the territory of Israel, the majority appear reluctant, and it gets worse.

    The younger generation in the West Bank has been heavily radicalized, and the vast majority of them support Hamas. This is partly due to Israel’s response to the October 7 attack but also because the PLO leadership is very old, corrupt, and disconnected from their people. So, there are no better options.

    Palestinians need their own awakening and conscious alternatives and movements. Israelis get accused of selecting Netanyahu as their prime minister, and Americans for selecting Trump as their president, but the same standard should be applied to Palestinians.

    If the majority of them had real intentions to coexist with Israelis, they would have rejected Hamas and any leadership determined to remove Israel. We have seen in the Arab world many times that when Arabs are determined to rebel against their leaders, they do so. But they don’t, because the leaders who support the destruction of Israel are the ones they choose and support, not the ones who may suggest the idea of co existence. I doubt that there are people in the West Bank or Gaza who openly support co existence with Israel and are still alive or no in prison. 
     

    Given the circumstances, I doubt the two-state solution is feasible. It will likely end with either the destruction of Israel or Palestine.

  5. Posted

    6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    If you did a quantitative analysis it is actually the opposite, but the news amplifies the negative stuff.

    I don't know, the persecution of gays and women is pretty extreme. Women and gays get murdered even in relatively moderate Muslim environments. I see this happening a lot in the Muslim villages surrounding me. A woman was killed by her brothers because she was gay, another woman was killed by her husband because she wanted a divorce. A trans woman was severely beaten by her relatives because she brought "shame" to the family and had to escape the village, hiding her entire life. I don't need the news to tell me this, I listen to the stories of Muslims who grew up in this environment.

    If it's happening in a democratic country like mine, where there are consequences to murder, especially if it's based on gender and sexual orientation, it must be worse in the rest parts of the middle east and Africa where women and gay rights don't exist.

     

  6. Posted · Edited by Lila9

    There are beautiful and healthy aspects in Islam which I can see in Muslims that don't differ from the beautiful and healthy aspects of other stage blue religious people like Christians and Jews.

    However, the toxic aspects in Islam heavily overshadow the healthy ones, on the global scale, and unfortunately, the political correctness of the western world falling to realize it and to address it.

  7. Posted · Edited by Leo Gura

    6 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

    And although the Hamas attack was horrible, I have always expressed it. Firstly there is barely any brutal footage of it (just reading stuff is not the same as seeing it) and secondly I feel sorry for Gazans even before this war. I cannot help but understand why they lashed out the way they did. Therefore I am indeed biased somewhat to their suffering because to me it has been historically far greater than the other side.

    If you hang in a social media pro-Palestinian echo chamber, you wouldn't see this:

    On 1/9/2024 at 5:06 PM, jaylimix said:

    Add [sketchy links removed]

     

  9. Posted · Edited by Lila9

    53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    People who keep pushing their bias here with no self-awareness or shame will be blocked from posting in the politics sub-forum.

    We have standards here against blatant spreading of bias.

    This is your last warning.

    Ok, I suppose I am one of these people you refer to. I would say to my defense that I experience people demonizing Israel disproportionately and I respond to that because from my perspective these claims are absurd.

    I would love to hear how you suggest to communicate here, how a discussion in the standards of this forum should look like, and maybe also give some examples from this thread of what comments you consider as pushing bias VS legitimate comments.

    It also would be nice if you share your meta view of this conflict in a few points, assuming you studied it well, I want to learn and see what I'm missing.

  11. Posted

    27 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

    @zazenOke, fair enough 

     

    The golden insight is that Jews are fighting for their naked survival. This is not a mere bias that can be shaken but is at the very core of every Israeli including very liberal ones.

     

    Another insight would be is that Israeli society is like family, very open, socially free, always ready to help or do their duty and from my well-traveled experience it is the most compassionate of all societies when it comes to the elderly, disabled and handicapped people. 

    I’ve seen it, Israeli youngsters would pick up an old slowly walking grandpa and drive him to his home or help him with his groceries.

    On YT I even heard the story of a low life Russian drug addict who was’t even Jewish. He was picked off the street and stayed at the house of a very normal middle class Israeli family. Can you Imagine, having a drug addict where your children play and sleep. The addict reformed out of gratitude and became an devout orthodox christian, getting his life together. 

    Even Naftalie Bennet, the former PM had a random mentally ill girl stay at his home who tragically committed suicide by dressing up in burka and charging at Israeli police with a knife. 

    Israelis are not perfect and also bicker all the time and are sometimes too brazen and rash for my taste. But at the end of the day they create, build and take care of each other. And they get embittered and will close themselves off to the people that want to destroy that.  

    This is beautifully written, thank you for sharing.

     

  14. Posted

    11 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

    Why Qatar funding US universities?

    https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/bjldya2qa

    That explains why these "woke" educated students in the US support Islamist terrorism and rationalize it, they are literally funded and brainwashed by pro- terrorists across the world.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4328440-pro-terrorist-cash-is-funding-us-higher-ed-and-taxpayers-should-be-upset-about-it/

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/funding-from-arab-countries-us-universities-raises-questions-almost-always-come-strings-attached

     

    Teal's video about today's "woke" culture is relvent than ever.

  15. Posted

    Why Qatar funding US universities?

    https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/bjldya2qa

    That explains why these "woke" educated students in the US support Islamist terrorism and rationalize it, they are literally funded and brainwashed by pro- terrorists across the world.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4328440-pro-terrorist-cash-is-funding-us-higher-ed-and-taxpayers-should-be-upset-about-it/

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/funding-from-arab-countries-us-universities-raises-questions-almost-always-come-strings-attached

  16. Posted

    3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

    I think that makes the goal to be even more important now if we want a chance for them to utilize this trauma to healthier places and even to get a kind of treatment later in their life.

    I agree, this is very important. This is the real key to change.

    Someone should take positive ownership of them. All these human rights organizations, including UNRA, who hang there could do that, but instead, they covertly cooperate with Hamas and other Islamist terrorist organizations that indoctrinate these children and put guns in their hands.

    Many social justice warriors in the world speak in the name of these children, as if they really care about them, but none of the adults among them aim to protect them from Hamas and the toxic ideology that creates generations of terrorists.

    They simp, glorify and idealize these Islamists in their head, see them as heros and as legitimate freedom fighters, as if rape and killing babies is a legitimate act of freedom.

    Instead of blaming Israel for defending itself against terrorists, which puts the future generation of Palestinians in countinoius suffering for them and for Israel, someone should hold these terrorists accountable for their anti-Israel, antisemitic, and Islamist toxic ideology, not to mention their horrific October 7 crimes.

    If there is no one in the world who can stand against them, they shouldn't be surprised if Israel does that. If they don't like the way Israel does that, they can go and do it themselves.

     

  17. Posted · Edited by Lila9

    https://www.jns.org/210-congress-members-denounce-south-africas-genocide-charge/

    210 Congress members denounce South Africa’s genocide charge

    The letter notes that while South Africa barely acknowledged the Hamas terrorists “who gleefully massacred, mutilated, raped, and kidnapped innocent civilians” on Oct. 7, it made “grossly unfounded and defamatory charges against Israel on the world stage.”

    Calling it an abuse of the judicial process to delegitimize Israel, the letter goes on to state that to charge the Jewish state with genocide is “particularly cynical given that the term ‘genocide’ was coined following the murder of six million Jews in the Holocaust.”

    “We vigorously denounce South Africa’s deeply hostile stance towards Israel and thoroughly reject its charge of genocide,” it continues, urging the Biden administration to continue to oppose the trial.

  18. Posted

    2 hours ago, kenway said:

    One of the bad things about being telepathic is feeling people's suffering.

    One of the good things about being telepathic is that I can feel @Lila9 already feverishly typing a response to the above.

    I had a nice tea break at that time. Maybe you need to sharpen your telepathic skills... 

    1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

    lol. Love your propaganda.

    Thank you, that's a nice start, maybe if you could replace the word 'propaganda' with 'truth' that could be more respectful.

    1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

    What a load of BS.

    You guys really need to keep rewatching my videos about Bias, cause that lesson flew over your head.

    I was sarcastic.

  20. Posted

    15 minutes ago, zazen said:

    Palestinians are 20% of Israels population. Pro-Israeli's talk about how they have a great life and no apartheid within Israel so how are you guys able to live side by side there? Are the Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza a different type of Palestinian.

    I struggle to see how this all ends. A issue with the two state solution is that from the West Bank there is a direct sight of Tel Aviv and Ben Gurion airport - the elevated position and proximity means direct attacks and snipers are within range. I can understand why Israel would be hesitant about this, especially after bringing so much bad blood between them and Palestinians. Then you have settlers already placed in West Bank who are more extreme and armed now which makes them impossible to move.

    Then with Gaza it has been made uninhabitable and is still 'too risky' for Israeli residents to be living near such a place in Israel's eyes. So the two state solution the world is calling for seems difficult to achieve and something that Israel won't even allow. What you will effectively have is a militarily controlled land where Palestinians live but who aren't part of Israeli democracy - that is basically occupation and apartheid, similar to what is already the situation but without Hamas and with military check points within Gaza similar to West Bank.

    Israeli Arabs are moderate. There are radicals but not enough to create big mess inside Israel.

    Palestinians in WB and Gaza are more radical and it is not a good fit with the Jews radicals in Israel.

    Both Muslims and Jews are not conscious enough to have a state which is equally Muslim and Jewish, both have different values and belief systems. Israel and Palestine should agree on basic values and things to coexist in one state, in reality, they are very far from agreement.

    In general, both Israelies and Palestinians are traumatized from each other so living face to face is not a good idea.

    Why not live under Palestinians? Reality proves that it's not safe for Jews to live under Muslim government, even if it's not that religious. And there are barely any Jews in Muslim countries (except Azarbajan which supports Israel).

    While the opposite, Muslims under a Jewish goverment, proves itself safe, Muslims thrive in Israel, especially the Muslim women.

    There are literally queer Muslims in TLV, who feel safer among Jews in TLV rather than among Muslims in their birth village, that alone says a lot. 

    Two state solution could be good if they proved themselves safe and not wanting to destroy Israel.

    It's up to them to show they invest their money to develop themselves rather than in weapons to destroy Israel. Otherwise, Israel would do everything to secure itself from them.

    Iran is threatening to destroy Israel for years, they are funding Hamas. 

    What could grantee that they will not attack Israel once they gain a state, what could grantee they stop hate us once they get a state if their real goal is to destroy us completely.

     

    Netanyahu in the UN about Iran's threats-

     

  24. Posted

    On 1/21/2024 at 10:40 PM, Karmadhi said:

    I am not saying that everything was perfect but I am sure Arabs treated them far better than Europeans did. Just the Holocaust is enough to differentiate the two.

    Now regarding Israel, the issue is I think that Israel would basically force native Palestinian Muslims to live under a Jewish state and they did not want that. Also, most importantly they did not want to give up their land to European Jew settlers. I am curious, why did not the White European Jew settlers live under Palestine and the authorities of Palestine could be a mixed government between Jews and Muslims? Similar to Lebanon which is Christian/Muslim.

    Or they could live as a minority group in Palestine depending on the demographics. White European Jews could come in but the native Palestinians would keep their houses and businesses. It would be similar to Syrians immigrating to Germany these last few years. 

    Why create a totally different state?

     

    I don't think that it was reasonable for European Jews, which were educated and more developed than the Palestinians to be an under a Palestinian goverment.

    Those people came to the conclusion that the best solution is to built a state of their own, in their native land, in which they wouldn't be at the mercy of any nation. Because history proved that living under someone else in control isn't safe.

    They could build a state together with the Palestinians, but they didn't agree on the most basic things and didn't share the same values, so this wasn't possible. Still isn't.

    And thanks God there is an Israeli state with a strong army. Better to lose thostands of people, but having a state and a strong army, rather than loosing millions of people and being in the mercy others, without any protection.

    I think that even if Israel was built in Uganda or elsewhere in the world, someone would have something to say about it or would have tried to fight it.