Anton Rogachevski

It can only work within a logical framework. But logic is not Truth.

Since self-deception is caused by the self, wouldn't it make sense to ask for guidance from outside the self and ask the therapist: "Where am I deceiving myself?" After more than a year in classic CBT therapy I can say that you can make a lot of progress and discover many hidden patterns of behaviour that you'd never even imagined you had. The therapist sees it all so clear, it's amazing actually.

@Leo Gura Leo, isn't 1=1 a meaningless statement? So truth isn't even worth talking about, because it only consists of meaningless self-canceling statements like: "God wants for you what you want for yourself." (Which in some way is true and profound if you still think God is something external outside of reality.)

@Breakingthewall Agree. It's almost impossible to truly understand someone else, cause we don't have access to their experience.

@Lyubov Thank you dear fellow traveler

@Breakingthewall I also used to think it's a scam. It took me half a year to let go of all these ego defences to see that I'm simply resisting change. The ego apparently has a tough outer shell.

@Lyubov Some of these beliefs are part of a trauma structure, a scar. It's not always as easy as just changing the narrative. My low self esteem, I am aware of, I'm always trying to re write it, but something deep down doesn't believe the update and it just won't accept the new narrative.

@Lyubov Thank you for your reply, I will surely check him out. My therapists is teaching me to challenge all the beliefs that cause me pain. I agree with Braking, there are no shortcuts I think. It's only slowly chipping at the massive web of wrong beliefs and stupid immature patterns.

I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant, there has to be at least some trust in their experience and judgment ability. He doesn't care about your metaphysics, or whether you think that you are god or not, he only cares that you are happy and have no problems functioning normally.

@Flowerfaeiry On the contrary I am feeling very amused when discovering all the self deception. Being hard on yourself is also self deception so I'm not being hard on myself, or at least I'm trying not to.

You are it, the hand doesn't need to touch itself it is already itself as being. Being is the only true knowing.

I said it's only hallucination that can be known. You know it by being it you are hallucination. I just don't know what "the whole world" means actually.

What do you mean by "known"? If everything you know is a hallucination so how can it be said that you know anything but infinite hallucination?

@Hojo They say the younger you are the quicker the therapy will work. It takes years because ego actually resists therapy and will not back down or trust the therapist that easily. It took me half a year to only let go of that defence.

@Leo Gura Since the basic phenomenological truth is prior to thoughts and everything is a hallucination - everything you can think or say about the "outside world" is inherently self deceived. So God is the only thing that can actually be known?

Over arching automatic critisizm and judgment of everyone Black & white thinking Some immature and completely false thoughts Being "parental" - taking care of everybody unconsciously Self sacrifice and people pleasing to the point of almost total self cancelation Having intrusive worrying thoughts about everything Thank you all for the valuable thoughts!

The kind of news all the "human rights organizations" won't mention and probably won't see because it's not even covered by any left wing media: https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/chris-kenny/retaliation-has-begun-antihamas-protest-leader-tortured-and-executed-by-hamas/video/ce38c0234fe29204b14d65f384b58aa2

Thank you It's very old, I haven't written anything there for a while

I can agree that what Leo is depicting is "The Basic Epistemic Ground" (what basically can be known to a mind) - It's in fact a phenomenological study of the solipsistic nature of experience and a recognition that all there is to an experiencer from his perspective is what's within the mind. Yes the mind is only aware of itself, that's by design - that is the veil of perception fully seen! I would say that it's correct to call enlightenment "insanity", because it's actually a complete loss of touch with the objective world. Since our touch with it is only belief based, it's necessary to see through it in order to get in touch with the fundamental truth of an enclosed self consciousness. Sanity is when you still assume there is an objective world outside of awareness. Is sanity worth losing for the sake of experiencing this phenomenological truth? Why would one want that? I think it's more epistemically humble to admit that it's a phenomenological study of phenomenological truths, and not an ontological study of reality. To even assume that a human brain can understand and explain reality itself by simple introspection is ludicrous. It's a hidden metaphysical assumption, and I'm not willing to grant it. I know that if I Do follow the practice I will also lose touch with reality and start assuming that I know all of reality, but it doesn't sound very safe or wise actually. The most you can say about it is that's it's a cool hack of the brain, and that it feels cool(and absolutely horrific at times), that I'll grant. It seems that "enlightenment work" is letting Descartes' Evil Demon deceive you fully until you stop believing that anything concrete is even possible. When you say everything is hallucination, an infinite hallucination - The demon has won! The evil demon can by definition create things that don't exist or make sense, or create a feeling of knowing the "truth" since he's an all powerful demon. He can make you believe you are God and that you know everything, and it will feel that way, but that doesn't make it necessarily true. The fact that illusion exists and is aware of itself doesn't affect the world outside, only the one trapped in the illusion. If you start believing in illusion without any doubt just because you are aware of it and there is nothing else but it, you are by definition delusional, because you are like the prisoner in Plato's cave that says that "The shadows on the walls are all that exists." Not only that, but you go a step further into delusion and say now that you've understood everything outside the cave, all there is to know, just because you've seen the shadows on the walls fully. That's a scary notion at that. God is also everything outside the cave, that which you can't know, and will never know by definition - You are a baboon trying understand special relativity, it's impossible - it's too complex by definition for a limited brain that's built for survival in the jungle. Perception is not existence, it's an appearance. You will say that it exists as an appearance, ok, but still it's a limited and non important sort of existence - like the idea of a unicorn. It is very important for the experiencer, because that's all he has, and will ever have (The veil of perception), but still it doesn't affect physical reality nor does it explain it, nor can it debunk it from the inside of the cave. How good do you think my argument is? What do I miss? Does it make sense to you? Would enlightenment make me shut up about it? How well can you function post enlightenment? What's more sane: believing in the "objective" or deconstructing it completely? @Leo Gura

If you don't see that everything is absolutely mystical you are still under the illusion of "knowing". Nothing can be known.

It appears timeless. There can't be anything infinite in actual reality, because an infinite object or anything infinite is impossible under the currently known natural laws as far as we know.

"Me"? There's no such thing. Also "reality", this word doesn't mean anything or point anywhere in my experience. It's a nonsensical word, the same as ablubadub.

Part of it's nature is that it appears infinite. The fact that it appears that way doesn't actually mean it is infinite. It's simply how experience is constructed - you can't actually perceive and ending or a beginning but only imagine them. There's no dreamer, just the infinite dream of God. It's not obvious, it seems obvious because the evil demon has fooled you into feeling self assured like that. Nothing is obvious, and if anything seems that way to you, remember you are being fooled again.

@Breakingthewall Sounds profound, but I'm afraid we're going in circles and returning to the same basic assumption that your direct experience of the simulation of your ape mind is somehow indicative of the ontology of reality, and can explain it and understand it. Why not admit that you are simply studying your personal phenomenon, and it has no relation at all to actual reality. It's a dream within a dream. Phenomenology is cool, I love it, that's why I'm here, but why ruin it's name with extraordinarily optimistic claims of understanding actual reality? There are appearance: colors, shapes, sounds, feelings, etc Where within these phenomenon can you see "reality"? It's light on a screen, and it can turn off in any instant. I can't see any reality, nor does that word mean anything to me. Phenomenologically speaking nothing is real nor is it imaginary, it simply appears.

@Breakingthewall How do you know that it's an "unlimited framework" what even is that? Where is it? What is "reality"? Where is it? How do you know there are infinite possible realities? To know even one would be an amazing achievement, no one knows or can know what is "reality" it's absolutely mystical. How is that known? I highly doubt that, and how can anyone deduce such a fantastical story?