Anton Rogachevski

What is motivation in it's essence? Am I supposed to put a carrot in the future to make myself want to get there?

That's exactly what I'm saying I do not have questions, it all seems so easy and so obvious, just like an apple tree 100 meters away from me, yet I stop and think about the apple, instead of going all the way, I suppose my desire is not at full strength. I do have a degree of liberation and acceptance which satisfies me very much at the moment, and so even sitting myself for an inquiry is painfully boring. It also seems to me like I already got everything that there is to get about the subject, and there's no more doubt or interest in it. Could this certainty be illusory? Even if it is, I'm happy with what I have. Anyway, just from reading your posts here, I'm already getting inspiration to keep inquiry. So thank you for your contribution. You said in one of the posts: "The greatest hiccup was feeling a lack of motivation. Only much later did I realize that this very lack of motivation was a giant pointer to the Self. But i had to go through all the things I mentioned above to understand that." Could you elaborate on this point? I also seem to have a low motivation.

What's the point of asking questions if one can answer either: "You don't exist and the world doesn't exist." or "Keep inquiring into the self and the question will disappear." Anyone can do that, and it's boring. What's the use of asking questions in the first place? Never really understood that.

So I guess now I'm also qualified to have an "I'm Enlightened, ask me anything" post, oh boy am I excited.

@SoonHei Simply said the whole is implied in the whole, for it to exist, the whole must exist - in other words, all is interconnected. Like our friend mentioned above, the contemplation of the source of each part leads to the whole.

@111111 Beautiful! I'm very happy for you. Seems like a profound trip. Expect to get many insights in the weeks to come. The mind takes time to catch with what it experienced. Wish I had better connections - don't even know where to start looking.

Disclaimer: It's a non profit, non religious fellowship. I only share as a fellow seeker who found something worthwhile. It's not a replacement for the deep spiritual work we do here in any way, but another perspective to investigate following Leo's principle of open mindedness. ---------------- I would like to share my insights about the 12 steps method - I've been practicing it for over two years now, and have gained many tools and principles that I couldn't get elsewhere. First of all it's based on group meetings in which you mutually share insights about "recovery" - they say you should share about "Strength, wisdom, and hope.". The fact that you become part of a fellowship of people who share a common goal fulfills a deep human need for being a part of a tribe. This unity principle helps to seek compassion and understanding, learning to listen and not react or judge, and to see that all people are equal. (Anonymity principle) Obviously it's not perfect, since it's based on gathering around a particular disorder, but it gets very quickly past that, into deep shadow work, cleaning and letting go of the past and embodying the principles in all aspects of life. Before I came there I've already been on the path of self actualization, but this program really gave me the missing 50% I needed to take my progress to the next level - to change entirely and to become a strong confident individual, and have a clean and healthy life. The different fellowships that are based on this method are focusing on different disorders, since all people are different and have different hangups. Here's a list with many of the types of programs available: https://sobernation.com/list-of-12-step-programs/ I would recommend it especially if you have an addiction to food, alcohol, relationships (co-dependency), drugs, sex, and gambling, because these programs might be your only salvation, and that is from hard experience. But even if you are a simple seeker, you can read AA's big book (the basis of all the programs) which is free in their website. This program saved millions, and brought back happiness to their lives. As a diligent seeker I've researched many traditions and methods, but this is definitely unique and worth checking. It's doesn't cost anything but a small pay of rent, coffee and buying literature without profits. So it's much more financially smart than going to a therapist or other available methods which cost a lot. Twelve Steps 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. Twelve Traditions 1. Our common welfare should come first; personal progress for the greatest number depends upon unity. 2. For our group purpose there is but one authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants—they do not govern. 3. The relatives of alcoholics, when gathered together for mutual aid, may call themselves an Al-Anon Family Group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation. The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcoholism in a relative or friend. 4. Each group should be autonomous, except in matters affecting another group or Al-Anon or AA as a whole. 5. Each Al-Anon Family Group has but one purpose: to help families of alcoholics. We do this by practicing the Twelve Steps of AA ourselves, by encouraging and understanding our alcoholic relatives, and by welcoming and giving comfort to families of alcoholics. 6. Our Family Groups ought never endorse, finance or lend our name to any outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary spiritual aim. Although a separate entity, we should always co-operate with Alcoholics Anonymous. 7. Every group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions. 8. Al-Anon Twelfth Step work should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers. 9. Our groups, as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve. 10. The Al-Anon Family Groups have no opinion on outside issues; hence our name ought never be drawn into public controversy. 11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, films, and TV. We need guard with special care the anonymity of all AA members. 12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles above personalities.

So in conclusion wisdom is transferred like a virus. It infects the patient's mind and creates a thirst for knowing truth, causing him to pursue wisdom, and then he seeks it wherever he can. It then uses the host to infect those around who are also prone to such foolishness.

There totally could be. In the relative everything is possible because it's a self manifested dream based on the beliefs of god. If he chooses to believe it, so it shall be.

Very funny coming from a man who is posting esoteric knowledge here for 3 days straight.

As true as that is, it takes a lot of "work" to realize. Do not underestimate the ego's power to disturb this truth. Also It might be idealistic thinking, and in my experience it's not useful to invent such lofty concepts. There are also degrees of attaining that, it's not a binary factor.

I would like to, if I may do so, add another layer of detail and complexity to this model. I can't help but observe how some people are just born into their level on the spiral. I think it has something to do with physical evolution. The hypothesis is that not all people are equally evolved, and are therefore locked into one stage. I can see it very clearly that "orange" people are more "carnivore", even their physicality resembles that of a predator, the cold eyes, the pure interest in nothing beyond material success. When I see one I feel stressed, I could never ever imagine such a being "magically" transform into Green, not in a million years. Imagine trump doing yoga and you'll see what I mean. They are obviously from the "warrior" cast. While on the other hand I see "green" people and their physicality resembles that of a herbivore. Round face, bigger eyes, different face structure all together. They are peaceful, friendly, open, emotional. One could never picture them as the money hungry wolves from orange. I think you got the idea. You can add more examples of this. Try the exercise: Imagine theses people getting hungry for money: Imagine this person doing yoga or meditating :

We're getting somewhere! Mind Bent. Can't fathom this. There really is a shift occurring in my experience right now. I guess this contemplation wasn't fruitless after all. There's no Non-duality, nor duality, except ideas about them. There's nothing but ideas, and ideas are everything. Holy smokes!

These kind of statements without explanations are like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

How could it be so, if from a non-dual state there are no understandings and no perspectives? These things are dualistic after all.

I'm afraid I've lost you there. Please tell me more master.

I don't seem to recall, yet I would love for you to elaborate. I like what you did there with the infinite perspectives. The cool part is that true non-duality (understood properly) is not a perspective and so it changes the game. As I said it's a state dependant vision. You can't take two entirely different states and compare the two, or explain the one with the other, and start spouting how non of us really exist. (which is what happens to the dude cult here.) The proper way is to see both as legitimate and not mix the unmixable. That's what's meant when saying that existence both exists and doesn't.

Beautiful! an integration of duality, and non-duality - the true mark of stage Yellow.

"The monk who becomes enlightened will go to hell straight as an arrow." Zen tradition

@Nahm Non-dualism is not a logical paradigm, you can't draw logical conclusions out of non-dual visions. It's a state dependant prism. I have yet seen perfection. I did have divine spiritual experiences, and no perfection was present. I can't speak of god as you speak of it, until I witness it. Since infinity includes everything it includes imperfection. Saying that infinity is perfect excludes imperfection. Imperfection is perfection. "Samsara is nirvana, nirvana is samsara." "God is the devil." Leo "God created adam in his own image."

It's very difficult to fathom, but god isn't perfect. He's perfecting himself through humans. Ideas of absolute perfection are only imagined by an ignorant absolutist ego.

It's easy to say about all things that they don't exist, but the secret is to leave them alone entirely I guess. Meanwhile wisdom is useful to me in my little dream, so I will keep it.

@SOUL I would like to share one more general observation: Please let it not disqualify the good parts of the discussion. There can be both good and bad sides at the same time. It seems we are all cought in a compulsive cycle of recating to each other, and it consumes a lot of time and attention. That's why I usually don't hang here that much. As entertaining as it is, it ends up being a general distraction. A very high quality entrainment indeed. One could even excuse it as a progressive, deep, mutual live contemplation.

Thank you dear sir. Would you care to eleborate on your metaphor?

@who chit Thank you for your contribution sir. If I may add, in my foolish opinion it's the collaboration between the intellect and the intutive proccess which produces wise and deep insights: for example Leo. The intellect is the fish net in which insights are cought. (Plus it's literally a web of belief.)