axiom

Very good.

Right. Very few here really seem to grasp this much. Infinity cannot be circumscribed, and that in itself should be the end of the story. You cannot fit something bigger into something smaller, much as an obese woman might like to fit into a size zero dress. ”Understanding” is the illusion of having packaged appearance into some finite form to somehow own it. Never actually happens. The mind is just more process unfolding - no agency behind it. No one there. The mind is just as incapable of grasping THIS as the sky is incapable of grasping the sea. All appearances.

@Thought Art Yes, I see your point. I feel like my time at this forum has come to an end really.

@Thought Art I seem to be past meditating and contemplating. There is no self left here at all. I’ve meditated for a decade or so. One day I had the shocking realisation that even awareness (often taken to be the absolute baseline or foundation of existence itself) is not a real thing. It just appears. It is on the same ontological level as leaf or chair or sky. Awareness is an appearance, it is not foundational. At this apparent realisation the self vanished, and all that was left was a character going about some apparent routine, in an apparent world of other apparent characters and geopolitics and changeable weather. It is not a philosophy. My signature is no joke. All that can be said is what is apparent, because nothing - literally NOTHING - is real.

I don’t understand what this means… What I speak of is not philosophy at all. It is one of the first things that becomes extremely obvious after a week or two of daily hour-long meditation: thoughts are not chosen, they appear. Honestly this should be a given. It’s the most basic and most obvious observation of all. Not that there is any choice in it ;-)

@Flyboy Astute! But Leo is just a process. Software in a sense, like you and I. He is not an autonomous agent that has some magical ability to change what he apparently does.

You definitely cannot make decisions. Thoughts / decisions just appear - same as everything else just appears.

You speak as if there is such a thing as free will.

Every apparent person is a process unfolding. I think a pretty good metaphor is to consider that our galaxy is but a spec of dust in multi-billion year explosion (big bang); the Earth is an even tinier spec, and all the flora and fauna therein is the most indescribably insignificant fraction of a fraction of a spec of stardust, just impossibly and inscrutably tiny and insignificant beyond words. Everything that exists - including every apparent person - is just dust, following the trajectory of a multi-billion year old explosion. There are no autonomous agents, obviously. Dust isn’t autonomous. How can you judge dust?

@MisterNobody Good observations.

That’s not really the reason though. The reason is that Leo is dissatisfied with what is on an implicit level. And he wants to change it. Activity of self.

@Leo Gura What is it that comprehends or attains these deeper understandings when the self has dissolved and no centre remains? If you say it is God, then does God not already know?

@Someone here The self amplifies pain and turns it into "suffering". "The end of suffering" is in the recognition of no-self / enlightenment. Pain, both physical and emotional, still happens. Nothing changes in that respect. It can even be more painful, seemingly, without a self to filter it. However, the need to change anything is not there. Without a self, the pain is appearing but not really landing - it has no centre. This is an indescribable difference. The pain no longer has relevance. There is just a character - which formerly was thought to be a self - appearing with pain that seems somehow to be connected with the character. This is an energetic shift that cannot be explained or anticipated. Its quality is surprising, like seeing a new primary colour.

Anything instructive is missing the point.

There is no contradiction. Meditation retreats happened, psychedelics happened. There was no self orchestrating it. "the true spiritual work begins" implies doership, a self. No such thing. It's already perfect as it is. Even if a self could somehow bring about a change in the context of everything already being absolute perfection, there would be no purpose in doing so.

Whatever happens happens.

It's all God. The sense of separateness and lack and the need to change something arises within it, and this is generally given the name ego.

You can't dig deeper. There is no you to dig, and there is no "deeper" to get to. There is only apparently deeper. The desire to go deeper is simply the illusory self, dissatisfied, thinking it is separate, thinking it can change what is. What a joke! It cannot do anything. It is not there to do it. Not there. No-self seems to be misunderstood by almost everyone (?) on this forum. True no-self is ALL of the profundity that is apparently experienced in the deepest psychedelic states on DMT or similar molecules. And it is always there. It never leaves because there is nothing else. It can't go anywhere. In this, there is only utter profundity and utter perfection in every apparent waking moment. Nothing is needed. Nothing. This is already perfect - not some idea of perfection, but actual perfection, bliss. Unending.

@LSD-Rumi Yes, I think Leo should use some stock footage of crowds cheering at the end of important sentences, particularly whenever he says "Ta daa!". That would be cool. It would be good to see footage of B52 bombers interspersed as well, to drive home any "truth bombs". He could use a crowd laugh track to accompany any laughs or smiles.

Verbing weirds language.

There are states that seem to be sober, and there are states that seem to be less sober. The apparently "sober" state can seem to involve more self, or what can seem like constrained, finite consciousness. The apparently "mystical" state can seem to involve less self, or what can seem like unconstrained, infinite consciousness. Enlightenment sees both apparent states for what they are, which is simply appearance. This appears, that appears. It's all the same.

@Breakingthewall The illusion of finitude is the labelling, meaning-making, ownership-claiming, taking-a-stake in what already is infinity. No special method need be used to access infinity. Infinity is all there is. There is nothing else. Psychedelics do not show you infinity any more than a grain of sand does. What they do is show you novelty, what seems to be extreme depth, extreme apparent “understanding”, an extreme sense of profundity etc. They might even seem to dissolve the self for a while. And then the self comes back online and claims “I am God!” This is like falling at the last hurdle. Psychedelics seem to actually amplify ego substantially. Some might say this is the opposite direction to any sort of escape… So long as there is a self, it is a dream.

@Breakingthewall The “way out” of the prison of the mind is simply walking free. There are no bars. The “way in” to the prison of the mind is the getting caught up in ideas of free will, choice, purpose, meaning, “a path” etc.

Ah... ashram glue?... or a dad hub? (air man)