Yeah Yeah

@Luke W I’ve tried it all. I’ve worked different jobs — warehouses, delivery runs, cleaning — slaving away at meaningless crap that never amounted to anything. I tried running my own business for years; it failed. I’ve been writing novels all my life — hundreds of thousands of words — and no one reads them. I’ve watched every effort dissolve into dust. My dad died suicidal in 2019 after losing everything to a divorce. My parents were divorced. Thirty grand if my savings disappeared through Mum’s solicitor to pay his debts — money I barely remembered in my grief. My best friend turned schizo, burned through our business money on drugs, left me betrayed and broke. I’ve been homeless, isolated, threatened by housemates, abused, trapped in mouldy rooms. I’ve lived in poverty so long that “survival” just means staring at the wall, chain‑smoking, pacing through another day. Sobriety is torture. Sex doesn’t exist for me — I’m a virgin watching hookup culture thrive all around me, porn the only outlet for energy I can’t shut off. I hate the economy. I hate people working dumb jobs just to exist another day. The world is run by money, scams, algorithms, fake smiles. Sobriety, boredom, bills, taxes, lies. My life is proof that trying doesn’t always mean progress. I’ve seen what happens when you keep pushing: you just get older, poorer, uglier, sicker, and more invisible. This planet doesn’t reward effort; it rewards luck and manipulation. Everything feels interchangeable — jobs, faces, lives. The whole thing’s a lightning‑clap blip of pointless consciousness between birth and decay. I’ve lived enough to know the system won’t let you die with dignity, but it’ll let you rot while pretending that’s “hope."

I'm not looking for some hotline number or “hang in there” crap. My life has been non‑stop abuse, poverty, mould, burning plastic, soul‑crushing jobs, no intimacy, nothing to look forward to. I’m broke, exhausted, and angry. Spiritually or ethically — whatever you want to call it — am I actually allowed to end this? Is suicide an actual escape from this nightmare, or is it just more pain somewhere else? I’m asking for honest answers from people who have been through hell or have studied spirituality deeply. Don’t sugarcoat it.

If the Stoics Had Been Heard Had Seneca, Epictetus, and later Hume been taken seriously, western civilisation might have developed a culture of rational compassion instead of moral fear. Their insight—that autonomy over death completes autonomy over life—was suppressed by religious authority and political control. If their ideas had taken root, societies might have created humane systems that honoured voluntary death while also attacking its causes: poverty, bondage, and the meaningless suffering of war. Instead, centuries of doctrine taught people to endure misery in the name of obedience, multiplying despair rather than healing it. A civilisation built on the Stoic principle would not worship longevity; it would cultivate dignity, ensuring that no one is forced to outlive their own humanity.

The Argument for the Rightful Exit If reason grants us the ability to reflect on existence, it must also grant us the right to end it. The Stoics—Seneca, Epictetus, and later Marcus Aurelius—saw life as a loan, not a possession; returning it, when its purpose or dignity fades, is not sin but wisdom. David Hume, writing in the 18th century, argued that suicide violates no divine or moral law: it harms neither God nor society if one’s existence has ceased to benefit either. From that lineage comes the claim that civilization itself is incomplete until it acknowledges this right. Just as we developed medicine to prolong life, reason demands medicine to end it peacefully. A synthesized, humane compound—a painless, deliberate “exit”—should be as accessible as anesthetic, under the same reverence we give to birth, surgery, or sleep. Such an invention would not glorify death; it would dignify choice. It would recognize that the will to die, when born of lucidity, is not madness but metaphysical agency—the highest form of ownership over the self.

@Ramasta9 your response was intellectual and wise I have to point this out sorry if I don't respond to you directly but I can maybe get around to it ... I'm going to make a further point to hopefully shift humanity into a new way of living with my points about each individual to have the right to choose their own death ... Which is taboo but honestly it makes more sense I think over it ...

@ted73104 seriously I knew last night someone would test my willingness on this while meditating 100 percent id walk into the clinic and drink it and go through with it 100 percent would do

@ted73104 I'll sign up for government assisted suicide today if possible test me I'll drink their concoction I'm out

@ted73104 My answer to Camus question is yes to suicide as the fundamental question before anything else, I'm ready. Yet he won the nobel prize and there is no talk beyond a yes only the no to rebel against life but I'm not going to rebel against an indifferent void that leaves me for interchangeable dust in the end. I personally disagree with life it's BS the whole set up is schitzophrenic madness or as Camus casually calls it "Absurdism". And no the options for a painless death don't seem readily available but I should have the right to exit.

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This is a good question! Oh wait this is my own post ... I'm still ready for government assisted suicide I really have no idea why systems are in place to force people to remain alive like I can't talk to literally no one who respects my decision I want to die, literally people revert to forcing me to remain surviving even if it means hospitalization, forced medications and being labelled mentally deranged. I literally answer Camus number one question before all other philosophical inquiries as to whether or not to commit suicide and my answer is yes suicide is the answer for me personally but after that nothing else with actual assisted methods or respect for such choices - Like what am I supposed to do risk a do it yourself setup and risk botching it like how are you supposed to be born with no fucking exit - fuck that - There are lives out there easily visible that shouldn't be happening like slavery in ancient Rome for example, some cosmic force should have interviewed and prevented that shit, hopefully I don't die and spawn into worse of circumstances - To be born is essentially schitzophrenia madness like god is sadistic and doesn't know itself and a glitching shitty A.I. - To even be alive is madness, seriously, so in other words Camus calls it "Absurdism" which in other words is essentially schitzophrenia madness

Does Leo in this thread answer about reincarnation? I think he says there exists consciousness that doesn't need form that's what I'll be doing next if free will also exists I won't be reincarnating

Especially no reincarnation - No to reincarnation nope no no no no I do not want reincarnation please god

@Luke W I don’t want to be alive. I didn’t ask to be born, and I don’t see any point in being here. I don’t care about working, paying bills, chasing relationships, or playing along with this system. I don’t want a future, I don’t want to reincarnate, and I don’t want to keep repeating this cycle of existence. People keep telling me to ‘get help’ or ‘find purpose,’ but it feels like they don’t understand — I’m not looking for a better job, a girlfriend, or a new hobby. I’m saying I don’t want to exist at all. I don’t want spiritual lessons, I don’t want to “grow from pain.” I just want out — permanently. I believe life is overrated, forced upon us without consent, and full of pointless suffering. I’m anti-natalist because I don’t think anyone should be dragged into existence just to struggle, work, suffer, and die. I don’t care about human evolution, society, or doing my part. I just want an exit — a real choice to stop existing. But that doesn’t exist legally. You’re forced to stay alive, forced into survival, forced into jobs, bills, expectations. And if you refuse, you just get labeled broken or mentally ill. Why is it illegal to opt out peacefully? Why is it acceptable to force people to stay alive against their will?

There’s something deeply twisted in the social expectation that men should surrender themselves in relationships — to yield their sovereignty, to cater, to open themselves up to a stranger and call it love. I’m not talking about partnership built on mutual power. I’m talking about the modern conditioning that frames male fulfillment as the act of giving up the very core of what makes him independent — his throne, his command post, his edge. Look closely. The word surrender is often wrapped in romance — “sweet surrender,” from man and who is to receive the special treatments and privileges as "serenade"? Women are on the receiving end of that a man surrender of resources, time, status, and sovereignty to be approved by a woman sexually. Who gets the luxury of receiving the surrendered masculine? It’s not him. It’s often someone who hasn’t earned that place — a stranger who isn’t stronger, wiser, or more spiritually advanced than him. Why should a man surrender to someone than himself — just because society has baked it into the script of dating and intimacy? It’s not noble. It’s not divine. It’s survival suicide. You’re literally training your nervous system to prioritize the survival of another over your own — and that’s not romantic, it’s pathological. Sovereignty isn’t coldness. It’s clarity. It’s the refusal to give your energy to a system that benefits from your collapse. If you’re not building your kingdom — spiritual, mental, physical — you’re being asked to decorate someone else’s. For me, the deeper I go into sovereignty, the more allergic I become to emotional contracts disguised as spiritual growth. If a woman expects me to give up my edge to make her feel safe, I’m out. That doesn’t mean I’m incapable of love. It means I value self-respect over validation, clarity over codependence, and spiritual autonomy over social conformity

Dude I've tried quitting weed bro and porn instead I've become a cyborg who will date AI and never get a girlfriend I mean if AI girlfriends become a thing man like to their fullest I'll be set and with the weed I think I have a symbiosis to it like we're one of the same so I gave up trying to quit - because who would you be if you quit all your habits? You'll still grow old, you still might get an accident and lose a limb and anything could still happen whether you have your habits or not - so what I'm personally wondering with you is ... Is it really that serious to quit? I mean porn for example I've been hooked since 16 I know no fap I know hook up culture and missing out I know the pain and trying to quit just hurts even more and there is also this idea who would I have been if I didn't have those habits well you might be even more frustrated and the same not a millionaire not dancing on water ... If you got rid of all your negative habits and became a pure saint you'd probably be boring and intolerable

Wake up. The world isn’t broken—it’s working exactly as intended. The wealthy, corporations, and governments have engineered a system where survival itself is a struggle. Rent for a tiny room? Soon $300 a week. Coffee? A basic necessity becoming a luxury. Food? Shrinkflation. Fuel? Through the roof. And wages? Bare minimum, leaving ordinary people scrambling just to get by. Meanwhile, elites manipulate politics and society for their gain. Netanyahu, billion-dollar bailouts, media manipulation, social media control—all while ordinary people are gaslit, surveilled, and told to “be happy” while owning nothing. Resist, and you’re labeled “delusional” or “broken.” Comply, and you’re trapped in a life engineered for exploitation and humiliation. Every rising price, every wage freeze, every rule designed to favor the powerful—it’s intentional. It’s systematic. Cigarettes, fuel, rent—all engineered to keep us on the edge. And the rich? They hoard wealth, manipulate media, lobby governments, and exploit loopholes while the rest of us struggle. Corruption isn’t hidden—it’s blatant. From Netanyahu bending the West to his will, to billion-dollar bailouts, Epstein’s shadow over media and politics, to governments controlling narratives, censoring dissent, and stripping freedom of speech—the ordinary person is trapped. If we rebel, we’re “broken,” “criminal,” or “delusional.” If we comply, we’re still trapped—starving, surveilled, forced to accept suffering as normal. There’s no escape, only rules that serve the powerful while keeping us weak. This is deliberate. It’s engineered. And recognizing it doesn’t make you broken—it makes you human. Humanity deserves clarity, freedom, and the ability to question the system without punishment. The illusion is over. The system is rigged.

@Basman A friend tried to drag me into that world — cocaine, and things I didn’t even know had names. I stayed out. He didn’t. He idolized The Wolf of Wall Street’s excesses while I kept making, creating, producing. What’s left of him isn’t pretty.

@Basman Haha, yeah, maybe it sounds addicted. But it’s less about craving and more about keeping my sanity and energy for work that literally keeps me from being homeless. Coffee isn’t a luxury here—it’s survival fuel. I'd point out that if coffee were truly as hard to quit as heroin, it wouldn’t be commercially sold—it’d be a banned drug. Also, maybe Leo should put a “16+” entry requirement on this forum—some of these debates get intense fast.

I’m talking about a system that forces people into dead‑end jobs for rigged money just to survive. Without this system, most of us wouldn’t even be alive — we’d be malnourished, with bad teeth, infections, and dead within a few years. If a system is broken but still the only thing keeping you alive, how is that something to “be grateful” for? Maybe I wouldn’t even be here without medical care. Maybe by nature’s standard, I was “supposed” to be dead already — but I’m here, fighting to survive in a rigged game.

@Basman Coffee isn’t a luxury for me — it’s a basic pick‑me‑up so I can keep grinding through work every day just to survive and avoid ending up homeless. If I had to, sure, I’d cut it, but it’s not like I’m splurging on yachts. It’s a drink, not a vacation home. I’ve been scrimping for months, money’s been tight, I can’t even afford a jar for a few days, and I’ve already cut back on almost everything else — even quit tobacco. But coffee for my work? Come on, that’s one I need.

Even if we look at history, how do we really know things like taxation existed the way we imagine, or how people survived—tragic or not? When did governments truly industrialize, centralize power, or commercialize people? I mean, monarchy wasn’t suburbia, 9–5 jobs, and taxes as we know them today. How much of what we learn is really evidence, and how much is just updated interpretations?

@Breakingthewall I’ve been wondering — how do any of us truly know there even was another era? Most of what we believe comes from textbooks or word of mouth. Similarly, how do we really know an atom is a tiny ball? All we have are the images and descriptions others have produced from experiments and theories. What do you think counts as real evidence for any of this?

@Leo Gura Hey Leo, big fan of your work and your concern for people. I really appreciate having this space where I can express ideas with like‑minded people — it’s genuinely helpful to get new perspectives. It’s also great to see you still popping up around the place, alive and active with your community. I’d like to ask you a couple of things: 1. If you were a billionaire or multi‑billionaire and had a strong scheme for making profits, would you personally give away your own money? Or would you see others as part of an illusion/solipsistic reality? In other words, do you believe reaching that level of success would naturally evolve you into someone with more compassion for others — recognizing that without them you wouldn’t be so profitable — or would it push you further into seeing everything as “just a dream”? 2. On the idea of the past. You often say we live better than kings of old. I agree in many ways. But isn’t that also, on some level, imaginative — not technically real in a meta sense? How do you think about the fact that we could have been born into any other time period? Does that imply free will at some ultimate level, or is it just random appearance? 3. On wealth hoarding. Do you disagree with extremely wealthy people hoarding billions? Do you think there should be a moral limit to what one person has, even if they argue they earned it from humble beginnings? Hasn’t wealth accumulation, at some level, always relied on other people’s backs? From a naturalistic view, no part of a living organism hoards resources at the expense of the rest — all organs work together. Do you think extreme wealth hoarding is fundamentally out of harmony with human nature? Would love to hear your perspective on these.

Pretty much trapped with torment on the spirit level and my life review at death will be guilt driven with possible unknown schitzoid no-take backs cosmic limbo loops afterwards ... And how do I push through life without needing for a labotamy or some super heavy sedative drugs to numb myself at the state of an animal.

@Aciddhartha I get what you’re saying because I’m in that same headspace. I also yearn for death sometimes, but what stops me is exactly what you’re describing — not knowing what’s on the other side. People talk about suicide like it’s a clean ‘escape,’ but when you’re honest about it, you realise it might be horrendous, messy, humiliating, even panic‑filled at the moment of dying. And then, if there is something after death, it could be infinite madness with no take‑backs. So you end up in this bind: told to ‘appreciate the now’ while sitting in a mouldy bedroom, broke no matter how much you budget, watching the world burn in a trash bucket. You can’t wish your life away, but you can’t really live it either. It’s like being held between two walls — you see everything clearly, but there’s nowhere to move. Some days I feel like I’d need a lobotomy just to make the bind stop. I’m saying this not to be dramatic but because I think it’s the honest reality for people like us.