Consept

OK fair enough, all love. I think it maybe more relevant than you realise. As a species we are moving toward trans-humanism, theyll be a time when we almost merge with technology and who knows what affect this will have on age and other physical factors. But yeah i agree its not the same thing, but at the same time why can someone claiming it be mocked whereas a trans person is (rightfully) defended? I dont think its that far off, as we know time is illusory and biological is is a thing as well as mental age. The gender argument includes whether someone is masculine or feminine or where they fall on that spectrum, its different but I dont think its a crazy comparison. Funny you should say, there is actually a boy who believes hes a cyborg who was on Dr Phil. But i think that is the issue, anyone is free to claim theyre anything but getting society to go along with that is another thing

@datamonster I think you have to consider how hard it is to keep a forum on track, especially when politics is introduced. Lets say all the Trump supporters were allowed to post whatever they want on here, no one got banned etc. Most posts will go on forever arguing about Trump, its rare that pro-trump posts have a meta analysis, if there are any feel free to share. So if one is stuck to an ideological position that Trump can do no wrong, as was evidenced in the Trump knew about covid thread, then is it not just a waste of time to argue back and forth on it? There has to be some regulation, i think it would be a similar case if someone went on about Biden all the time. To give an example would it be a good idea to let christian fundamentalists come on here and argue whether christianity is the one true religion? Then when you provide arguments against that they quote the bible? At certain point we have to say this is a limited discussion. I do hear you on maybe Leo guiding people, but again if someone is stuck to ideological position its very hard to guide them, as for them to even listen to you, you would have to agree with them. Ive spent many threads and words talking to people with ideological positions here on this forum and 100% of the time it has gone nowhere, so theres not much you can do about that imo

She does gaslight in other instances though, she was on celebrity big brother and the singer Ginuwine got some backlash for saying he wouldnt date a trans woman, when she pushed him in it, clip below. But i dont want to take her as an example of all trans women, i dont know that to be the case but it is fair to say her perspective is whats being pushed in the media. I was involved in the thread about race and to me things like trans racial are interesting as its a new way that humans are seeing themselves, so i think the discussion is worthwhile, im mixed race black and white btw. Not to be rude but i dont think its for you to say what should be discussed, no one was offended by the race and if anyone is offended by this one they can say, i have tried my best to be respectful. I would also say the arguments in your last paragraph wouldve applied to trans-gender people 50 or so years ago and probably still used today, people wouldve been dismissive at best of trans-gender people and would never have accepted that they could change gender. So relatively speaking i dont think its that different from the age thing. Moreover i just found it interesting how ridiculed this guy in the video was compared to other who want to change their sex.

Politics is always going to be somewhat biased because its asking you to polarise yourself between parties. I think whats better to look at is the intention behind whatever the argument is, for example its clear to see progressives ultimately want equality for people and less power for the rich, conservatives broadly want to keep the status quo and 'traditional' values or even revert to older values, dems are kind of in between but are also concerned about the economy. Within these each individual might have different incentives. Of course all assessments can be biased but if we want to look at things consciously we have to try and be as honest and unbiased as possible and try and give a meta view. What i notice on the forum is that if you say Trump is red and that hes more about power and even show examples, some will not be happy because theyre tied to the opinion that Trump is a saviour and dems are evil. As far as i can see Leo and most others are not going to support a party like the dems blindly, its whether they have policies that are progressive and for the people, thats the key thing, the party is almost irrelevant. For example Mccain before he died started supporting a couple of liberal causes if i remember correctly and he wouldve got support for those that are progressive, they wouldnt automatically condem him because hes rep. So i think at least on this forum it would be good to get away from partisan politics arguments and actually talk policies, any criticism is fair game as long as its legitimately backed up. If you do feel that youre tied to a particular party you are most likely the cause of the argument.

So what youre saying is Leo creates a party line that he either believes or thinks everyone will be happy with and then everyone agrees and follows?

Well the difference with age change is that biologically you could be younger or older than your age, in fact its most likely usually the case. Unfortunately for you with your penis size that wouldnt be the case, i guess you could tell everyone that you feel like you have a big dick trapped in a small dick and youre transitioning and everyone should cognizant of that. What would be the difference between trans-age and trans-gender, aside from more people fighting for trans-gender?

Theres pills for that, allegedly Are you saying trans-gender is stage green excess?

This is actually a follow-on from what we were discussing in the other thread regarding race. Wouldnt a trans-gender claim that they are actually the sex they changed to, as is shown in the second video i posted? You could also say that the trans-woman is gaslighting in the same way you mention. Not saying all trans-genders do this btw. Also the with age you could say a similar thing such as 'my birth certificate age is x but my actual age is y' but the main thing is that you would get the rights of someone a different age to you, it doesnt have to be a denial.

Podcast episode with Conner Murphy, if you remember him he was the youtuber who had a breakdown/spiritual awakening

Right but some people might make the same argument with gender. If i im 60 but i feel 40 and this is backed up biologically through tests etc, what is the difference between that and someone whos male but feels female? Why should they be allowed legally to change their gender but the 60 year old cant change their age? Yeah there'd be quite a few popular 15 year olds lol. Youre right it would cause a lot more problems with law, maybe you could say you can only change your age over the age of 18 or something like that. But just because of the law issues does it make it less valid than trans-genderism? Also if you look at the reactions from the presenters in the media, one is laughed at and one is defended

Why not? Theres an expectation of what old people should be like or what young people should be like, that is also a social construction. Time is relative and experienced differently for everyone, so time itself is a concept. You could maybe make the argument that gender as a social construct is more prevalent but im not even sure thats definitely true.

@SunCat So you're here to argue about RussiaGate?

Didn't watch the whole thing but ultimately what his point was is true, always watch things consciously, never turn what someone says into dogma or take it on wholesale, and have multiple sources of info. It seems everyone's so easily led these days or probably its always been the case but it's easier to get to people now. As far as I see Leo does always say have your own sources but it's hard for people to really take that on board. The problem I find generally on the forum or even in discussion in normal life, is that people believe point of views like a religion in which case a debate is literally impossible, that has often been the case on here. If you have a perspective that you could be wrong and don't mind being proven wrong, then discussion can flow, if not its really a brick wall.

Just wanted to recommend this doc, its on netflix and features loads of contributors from the tech industry essentially warning of the dangers of social media but also literally telling you what they do/did. Essentially social media is affecting elections, destabilising governments, creating polarisation, radicalising people, as well as affecting people on individual levels. Questions, have algorithms taken over all of us? What can we do to change this and use social media for more positive things that dont affect us as a society in such negative ways? How do you warn people about when theyve effectively been brain washed by their particular bubble?

I was thinking of a way to phrase and this works really well. Here in England a lot of people have criticised Johnson for how hes handled the situation, there are some good arguments for that but on the whole i cant really see what different choices he couldve made apart from taking it more seriously before it even got to the country. In terms of letting people know the situation i would say he even over exaggerated the seriousness of it on occasion to make sure that people took it seriously, which is basically a better safe than sorry strategy which you have to take in these circumstances. But if Johnson ever did what Trump did, he probably wouldve been thrown out of office, so its really mind boggling that Trump could even stand a chance at the election. Ive seen some diversion tactics but, and i hope everyone is in agreement, i want to nominate you for the prestigious award of 'Most Ridiculous Instance of Whataboutism' for dismissing any Trump wrong doing with a comparison to the owner of a Self-Actualization forum, truly breathtaking diversion tactics. If we do agree that Leo's statement is wrong and hes evil or whatever, does that change the Trump situation or....

I would say 40% of the population is reflecting him. This story is interesting because its a direct contradiction to what he initially said ro the public, so his side of the population went along with the line that covid is not so serious. Now he's on tape saying it is serious, I wonder what the reaction will be from his followers

Agreed, it's cult like behavior almost

Theres many more btw - https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/20/21188397/coronavirus-trump-press-briefing-covid-19-anthony-fauci https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/13/trump-questions-public-health-experts-twitter-359388 Even some from fox news - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-i-dont-agree-with-fauci-over-us-testing-capabilities-to-curb-coronavirus https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-says-he-disagrees-with-cdc-school-reopening-guidelines-calls-them-impractical https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-chief-contradicts-trump-on-misquoting-charge-over-virus-rebound

Youre right theres no point in philosophizing which is why this topic was brought up with audio evidence of him saying its serious and that hes intentionally down playing it, this is recorded - https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html There are numerous examples of him disagreeing with experts, which you must be aware of, unless youre claiming he always agreed with the experts im not sure, but anyway heres one such example - https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attacks-fauci-boasts-of-ignoring-experts-on-coronavirus-2020-7?r=US&IR=T heres another - https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-versus-doctors-president-experts-contradict/story?id=70330642 So question again, do you think Trumps response to the corona was appropriate considering he knew the potential severity of it ?

Are you saying Trumps response was appropriate or the best way to mitigate deaths? For example his going against experts or saying its a democratic hoax, with the knowledge that it isnt and that it is actually quite serious. His loyal followers will of course take what he says as gospel, which he knows is the case and he is wilfully misleading them

This is a massive factor, i would even go so far as to say its the driving force behind hate politics as you say. Theres a new doc on netflix called 'The Social Dilemma', which revolves around accounts from big players in the tech industry and they break down why they medium is so dangerous and how theyve actually lost control of it.

This is big because a lot of the anti-maskers, anti-fauci, conspiracy theories, have come about because of how much trump downplayed it. His downplaying has effectively cost lives, probably due to the extent at which it was downplayed and the disagreement with experts. However, it's not new that a government would downplay or not tell the whole truth about a serious situation as to not panic the public. I just wonder what his thinking was behind it. Of course he was worried about the election and approval ratings, but is there some part of him that thought this would be better for people to avoid panic and he's just very incompetant? Either way he's either very stupid or incredibly callous, so I can't see how this can look on him favourably

I get what youre saying, i think i find the trans-racial argument quite interesting as in it really pushes the social constructs of race or even the existence of race as a defining quality. Would you say Dolezal is deluded or what do you think is going on there?

I find the Dolezal case more strange because she appears deluded in that she literally cant say she is white but feels black. But is it possible to feel black as much as a trans person feels theyre in the wrong body, or is she just fully deluded and if so is it possible that some trans people are deluded? Anyway heres Whoopis take on it and then an interview with Dolezal where she got a bit grilled on the subject -

Yeah i mean calling someone black or white or blonde or whatever is really a human way to classify people they dont know too well with one easy word. This is done with jobs, your job title doesnt tell people too much about what youre like as a human but its always the first thing people ask a new person. I think we're just not good at accepting people as they are, we tend to look for ways to generalise. As you say race is really a construct, however until we all transcend race and ethnicity i think it will be part of your identity, theres no getting around it for now. Personally, i feel black, im not sure how to describe that exactly but its how i feel, it may just be because i was never made to feel 100% included with white people or because media and other influences are telling me im different or because i grew up around black people. But i also feel that there are constraints in terms of what is black, in that acting a certain way means your black, which to me is bullshit, im black but it doesnt define me. I think you can compare trans-racial and being a different gender. What youre saying is true you could be male and feminine energy, so it makes sense to have a few genders that incorporate this. But when you add 70 or so then really what were talking about is just how you feel, and if that is accepted then technically you could feel chinese for example. I guess what im pointing out is the pointlessness of the extra genders because i dont agree that its right, within the context that we have 'race', that a white person can all of a sudden say theyre black. The experience is always different than if you were born black. So relatively speaking if that doesnt make sense neither do other classifications based on how you feel.