Consept

Can you break down the universal law? I'm not clear on the nature of this law

'seems like' is important, if you take an individual photon away from the main source and it acts in a certain way it would seem like its acting of its own accord, but for one why would their be an individual separate conscious entity behind that photon making decisions? I think it's the same for us we are, at least from our perspective, separated from source (although you could argue we're not really) we believe we have agency but really we can't do anything without there being some other cause for it

@Moksha Could you come up with a choice you can make that is completely independent of any other cause?

Nah not really i just like to question peoples strongly held beliefs to see how they came to believe what they do and if it could be true, its just epistemology. I also feel like if i point out flaws in their beliefs they may notice them and maybe question their beliefs and not be so tied to them. What i find interesting is that although ive never outright said its not true youve taken a really defensive attitude to my line of questioning, i find this to be a common theme in people with dogmatic beliefs, religious people, Trump people, conspiracy theorists etc. Im not really giving or have given an opinion on LOA but because im not agreeing it youve painted me in whatever way allows you to maintain that belief, its easier to you to think of me as 'some orange guy who doesnt get it', despite the fact you have zero data on me or know me, than to actually answer questions or have a real discussion about it, i feel this would be the case with anyone that disagrees with you on this. On one hand I see that LOA could be useful, it doesnt appear to have any scientific backing or real evidence but nevertheless having an abundant mindest is obviously important. As i said its nothing new in the field of psychology although Maslows abundant mindset is a bit different from LOA. On the other hand dogmatic beliefs in general can be dangerous, im not necessarily saying you, but someone could believe in it so much that they suggest people dont get treatment for cancer for example, because they believe in manifesting so much. Or, like someone i know, literally think they have to take no action to get material things, this is very common. I think the Secret and books like that are there to make money and they over simplify deeper psychological concepts which are still just concepts but nevertheless. Ultimately i think people are scared of not being in control of their life and scared of uncertainty, LOA offers a way to give some kind of certainty to peoples lives, because if it works they did it but if it doesnt they also did it, this is the real crux of why its so popular. The ego has become so strong in recent times and this is the ultimate ego celebration of power. Just my opinion

If it makes you feel better, funny how you dont answer any of my questions. Should try not to be so judgemental and defensive, you may attract it in your life

Nah i think you might have a point, if someone can be unknowingly corrupt it means anyone can be including ourselves. If someones corrupt its easier to think someone chose that and it may have been because of power. People like the idea of free will and choice because it means that you could and would chose good over evil, little do they know how misguided that actually is

Whats my limiting belief, i dont think ive stated any beliefs, is my limiting belief that i may not believe in the LOA? Also how do you know that you chose your life before you came here? Do you have a memory or direct experience of that?

Hmm ok this seems to lack some compassion, its also making a lot of assumptions. So youre saying everyone in a bad position is because theyve manifested that bad position or because when they were a soul they chose to experience that bad situation. Theres an assumption that you know what happened before we got to earth, i dont think you do, unless you have some memory of that youre just repeating something else that youve heard. In which case this would fall squarely in the belief category, if you do have direct experience of this please share. The thing is this manifestation thing can only work if you also say that everyone else manifested their situation in some way, therefore it seems to me that you would have to blame the victims, like if someone gets raped or if someone is wrongly imprisoned and given the death penalty or if a child gets a terminal illness. If only these people knew about the LOA they could have changed these situations, or maybe they did know but didnt manifest with enough belief. I dont know man this is kinda weak

Interesting take, i think the ego will always find away out or an excuse, i will say that im not sure the corrupted person always blames the power itself, usually its other peoples take on it. To blame the power or to give some kind of real answer would need some self reflection, usually the corrupted person will stick to their guns or give a forced apology. Even in the cases of Weinstein and Cosby, theyve never come out and admitted things and then reflected on it. I would love to hear someone like that or the nxvim leader come out and give an honest account of what was really going on in their head but you dont tend to get that. It would follow that if the ego is that strong in them why would it stop at getting caught This is true, i think really a leader should be reluctant but take power on a 'if i dont do it someone corrupted will come in' kinda vibe Could we get to a stage where we are all selfless? Another problem that occured to me is most corrupt leaders will get voted in because the voter is voting in their self interest, so we get the leaders that are reflected back at us

Careful bro you might attract aggression into your life with that attitude OK genuine question, what about all the people who say get terminal illnesses or people from war torn countries that lose everything, or people who were abused as kids, would you say they brought it upon themselves with their thinking?

What would you consider dogma? Are you saying you dont believe in LOA?

Do you not think there have been instances of people going into things with good intentions only to later be corrupted when they started to get power?

Im not too sure about this, what ive noticed from becoming more aware is that you just cant change thoughts and actually trying to change your thoughts creates more thoughts and resistance, 'you cant get stillness from action'. So i think what makes more sense to me is acceptance and actually love for your negative thoughts, all thoughts come from some where and in a sense they mean well, for example your brain might want you to procrastinate as a survival mechanism, because if you dont do anything you will survive, its important to acknowledge these but not necessarily follow them. I feel what youre saying is to actively change thought patterns and i dont really see how you can do this by just willing it. There is of course CBT but the method is very different and it doesnt really extend to manifesting and the things LOA offers. LOA seems a bit simplistic in this sense

This is a good point, if thoughts arise themselves, how is it possible to control them?

What youre saying of course is not wrong, this has been around in psychology for many years, Maslows scarcity/abundunt mindsets, Jungs shadows. What i think the problem is, is that people turn this into a religion, where they force themselves to have positive thoughts by suppressing other thoughts, this is the opposite of what Jung was talking about. The self-help industry is worth $10 billion a year, many LOA teachers can make money with books, seminars etc and people eat it up, so theres a clear incentive to put these ideas out there with defense of 'if it doesnt work for you, you just didnt believe enough', which keeps people wanting more and more, without necessarily getting results. The other thing is that there is no scientific law of attraction, it doesnt exist or even make sense, like doesnt necessarily attract like in the world, the same polarity magnets repel, so its a good way to attract more materialist type people of our time. A great example is the MLM industry, they really preach the LOA and show people that have 'made it' to new recruits. Only the top maybe 2% will make anything that looks like an average wage, yet they can cover themselves by saying you didnt believe in what you were doing enough thats why you werent successful. If the LOA worked all of these people should be successful but of course they cant be because of the structure of the system theyre in. If everyone in India believed in it and wanted to be rich, it literally wouldnt work as the system is built in a certain way, this extends to all systems around the world

I would consider - 'I already know it’s true because I have seen it at work in my life. So why would I consider it to not be true?' to be a dogmatic position, if someone said that about something you didnt believe in or didnt think was true you would think what they believe is dogmatic if they were to say what you said. Youre scared to question the belief and have to believe it 100% because in your mind if you do you wont attract what you want. This belief system is baked into every religion and ideology you could think of, 'if i dont believe in Allah i will be forsaken' 'If i dont believe in mormonism i will be forsaken', its all the same mechanics, and it is very easy to get into this thought pattern. Its also reinforced by the belief if what i want doesnt come true its because i didnt believe enough, this is textbook stuff. I could literally make up a belief, lets say the sacred turtle, if you believe in him you can have whatever you want, if it works its confirmation, if it doesnt you just didnt believe in him enough. What facts have do you have, aside from you believed in loa and some things happened for you and some things didnt?

Have you tried believing that Jesus rose from the dead? Whats the worst that could happen? Saying its a cult is your perspective, some may have the same opinion on loa and prosperity preachers, especially considering the dogmatic way that you believe in them. You also share the belief system in that if i do everything they tell me to do ill get what i want, so i fail to see the difference in that respect. Speaking of prosperity preachers, i would ask you to watch this and then give me your opinion -

What kind of evidence would you need?

I get what it is, im saying your reasoning to get there is literally the same as scientology or prosperity preachers

So youre saying the distinction is that the law of attraction has been around longer than other ideologies? How do you reconcile that the framework of what you said - Could literally be said for Scientology or prosperity preachers or pretty much anything, ie if i believe it and good things happen in my life it is because of -insert ideology here-, if it doesnt work its because i didnt believe in -insert ideology here- enough

Im not saying its complete bullshit, and yes i agree if you read between the lines there is some great insights and analogies. I assumed you werent religious which is why i used it as an example, but i dont think youre getting my point, ill give you the benefit of the doubt that youre not will-fully ignoring the point. Ill give you another example - Whats the distinction between what youve said and a Scientologist that says 'I know Scientology is real because i followed what they said and ive seen the results in my life. For example i asked for a job and within 3 months i got a job'. Would this make Scientology true?

So whats the distinction between what youve just said and a christian that says 'I know Jesus and my Christian God are real because i prayed and ive seen the results in my life. For example i asked God for a job and within 3 months i got a job'. Would this make Christianity true?

Well that's literally the point, jesus raising from the dead holds no perceived benefit for you so you don't believe it, however a Christian would say you weren't being open minded if you don't believe it. Your logic was that open mindedness doesn't consider if loa is horseshit, I'm saying it would be able to hold that position. I'm also a Christian could use the same logic you used to dismiss any non-believers, it's a standard baked in way of thinking to hold up any idealogy. You don't believe in jesus because you don't have faith, loa doesn't work for you because you don't have faith in it, what's the difference?

Wouldn't true open mindedness be able to hold the two positions in their mind without being tied to one or the other? By your logic true open mindedness wouldn't consider whether jesus rose from the dead or not

Really consider what I'm going to say, what would be the difference between you just saying what you said and a Christian saying that in order to convince that Christianity is the right way? Is the difference that loa is true?