Consept

@Michal__ @Thestarguitarist14 Nah honestly I'm glad it works for you guys and I'm not even saying it doesn't work, for me like I said it worked, I just don't see the link of what you attribute it to and I don't get why you're so certain it's that. My perspective is always I don't really know and it would be a leap to say I know anything outside of my direct experience. But if you're honestly saying you've had direct experience and the only way to explain the happenings is magic then it's not really for me to dispute that. If you're deluded hopefully you see clearly and if I'm not seeing what is real, which is magic, then I honestly hope I do see that as it want to know and feel what is real. I will give you a concrete example cos I was kinda into the LOA a bit, years ago. But I wrote down a few things that I wanted, one was an audi a3 specifically amongst others things. I stopped thinking about it and just put it to the side and set the intention, I completely forgot that I wrote the list. Cut to about 3 years later I found the list and a lot of things had come true including the audi which was now parked in front of my place. Now did magic from my thoughts cause this to happen or did I plant this in my sub-conscious and then when I had enough money I bought the car, who knows, maybe its kinda the same thing. But from my perspective it felt like I set it in my mind that it was possible and then it happened, if I didn't think it was possible it prob wouldn't have happened, I don't feel like I experienced magic, but maybe I'm not conscious enough to feel it or maybe mine was due to thinking and some peoples are due to magic or maybe magics a way to explain this occurance. ??‍♂️ I still think the principles are valuable to have either way

Yes you can call thought magic i have no problem, i was just stating that as we've defined spiral dynamics it would be purple along with spirit realm, magical powers, psychic powers and other things that have been mentioned in this thread. Yes i understand we are all it, in Leos video regarding this subject he explicitly states that LOA is not to do with magic, that was my only comment regarding that. It doesnt mean that hes right im just noting it. Yes the terminology is purple-ish and i would argue the reasoning is somewhat purple in that something happens and you would reason that its because of LOA, this is similar to what a tribal person might believe. If youre saying that youre on some higher consciousness and that specifically doesnt apply to you because you have a completely different outlook and understanding than most humans, then i cant argue with that and ill have to take your word for it. I assumed you would put me orange, i expected this as Leos (older views) and Sadhgurus views were dismissed or explained away, so ultimately who am i? I would say that you should be aware of your bias' because consider that if Leo or Sadhguru had expressly said they believe in magical manifestation you would have used that as confirmation of your views but because they disagreed to some extent you claimed that you knew more in this realm than Sadhguru, this strikes me as somewhat biased because essentially theres no way you could be wrong or challenged. I would also say putting someone at a lower level than yourself could be a way to keep your belief going, essentially absolutely anyone who disagrees or thinks different to you regarding this subject i think you would automatically put them at a lower level than yourself, even if in reality they could be more developed than you (im not necessarily saying i am specifically), if you dont put them at a lower level you would say that they dont understand said subject as much as you. This really smacks of bias thinking. If youve noticed ive not really been defensive or acted defensive, but i have noticed that a lot in this thread, which shows a strong attachment to belief, youll also notice i havent pegged you at a level as i dont have enough information on you and i dont need you to be lower so i can dismiss you and hold on to a belief. If i had agreed with you fully, you wouldve put me on a higher level most likely, meaning everyone who agrees is higher in your estimation than anyone who disagrees. These are just some observations ive made, but im sure you will dismiss them as not true in some way lol. But no you havent been that insulting, other posters have obviously but im not offended or anything, i know i am questioning beliefs that you guys hold dear and that of course could be true, so i guess i expected some backlash, i didnt bring it up to play the victim i was making the point that it wasnt especially high conscious to insult people that disagree with you, but i understand the reasoning behind it so its all love. To be honest there is a lot of mystery in the world which i think is amazing and i sometimes get suspicious when people have a certainty about things, because, cool if theyre right its good theyve worked it out, but if theyre wrong and then theyre mind is closed to other possibilities it means they will never actually be open to the reality of it which might be that there is no answer (not specifically talking about this thread) As they say a wise man knows he knows nothing. Anyway all the best to everyone on the thread. Heres Eckart talking about mysteries -

I havent got defensive this whole thread, despite being called names and being insulted by you yellow folks quite often, so no this wont be an exception. Its your opinion, i would question it if its based off the fact that i dont believe in magic but either way, magical thinking is usually pegged at purple, thats why i brought it up. Thats not to say a yellow person couldnt use it but it is a purple trait. Anyway yeah i guess you couldve, theres no way to prove either way through this text format so ill take your word for it

Ill have a look into it, ive never heard of magic type things in reference to stage yellow, but guess its possible. Have a go at the LSD $1000 thing, id love to see that in action

Why did you reject it in favour of the magical belief? I was assuming you rejected it it not that you werent aware of it btw Not really although it sounds fun. Like i said of tried setting intentions and all of that which then came true, in fact i would go as far as to say i do generally set intentions in my life, but i see it more as removing the mental blocks to get what i want rather than something external and magical. That does sound cool, what is it? lol

Consider that you might be able to logically explain it but you reject any logical explanation because you like your one. An explanation for example might be that humans evolved to notice things that they wanted and needed more because they needed these things to survive. For example early hunter-gatherers would need to spot exactly what they can eat so they and their tribe could survive, its likely that this couldve evolved in the brain that once a human knew what they were looking for that thing stood out more than other things. Imagine trying to gather food in a new environment you would need to build up that skill of finding things in the wilderness and of course that would get passed down from generation to generation over 1000s of years. Cut to modern day were not hunting and gathering but maybe once we say we want something our awareness for that thing heightens. Does it seem magical? Definitely but that doesnt necessarily mean that it is. Now im not saying this explanation is true, i dont honestly know but i think it is a legitimate theory that could explain this phenomenon, especially when you take into account how we and other animals have evolved to aid our survival. Leo or me or whoever shouldnt necessarily change your opinion and thats not my intention, but i would say that you should look at new perspectives and always question long standing beliefs and look at how do you actually know this thing you claim to know? Its an internal process and im aware im not going to dent your belief if you are really attached to it Yeah maybe, we dont actually know his updated opinion as ive said but again I wouldve expected him to talk about it again by now if his opinion had changed especially given how much of an impact it would be for everyone to know it, but maybe it has and he hasnt done a video for it

Could be the case, although he was conscious enough to do videos about spirituality around the same time. But notice how your mind goes to defend this position even in light of some evidence of, in this case Leos opinion (not whether LOA is real). In fairness we dont know his updated opinion although it is curious that he hasnt done a video expressly about the LOA or really even mentioned it in the way you guys claim it exists in the last 6 years, if it was as you say it is and Leo is conscious enough by your standards now, i wouldve thought he would have done many videos on it, i dont get why he wouldnt talk about it directly, especially if his opinion did change on it. I wouldnt say he was orange then although he has evolved a lot since then so he couldve had more orange aspects, however he was doing videos specifically about spirituality, i dont think youd find that on an orange channel

Its the only one i kind find, could you link me to a newer one where he specifically talks about the secret or the law of attraction. The other law of attraction one ill put below but that was done before the one about the secret that i posted earlier. Also in the one below he says its to do with human psychology and he doesnt really mention anything about higher states of consciousness or vibrations, again not saying it couldnt be the case im just saying Leo didnt mention it. It could be maybe you guys bias' is affecting how youre seeing Leos public view on this, if you disagree with him its fine - Watching the video now and he literally says its not through magical meta physical happening and that it appears that way. It is a good video though, old school Leo

Have a watch and let me know, it is six years old but he released a no-bullshit guide to spirituality in the same year, so id assume he was into spirituality around then

What do you think of Leos take, im curious

OK apologies i didnt mean to frame it in a way that youre not framing it, i was trying to go off what others on the thread were saying. So i would say ive experienced wanting something and believing i would get it and it came true and also not in a surface level way but it did feel like more opportunities were popping up for this thing out of nowhere. However i wouldnt necessarily put it down to an unexplained synchronicity. Also it should be noted that as humans we tend to experience things and then try and find an explanation after, this could be the case whether its scientific or magical. I have personally experienced deeper planes of reality through psychedelics and meditation, but i would describe this more as a seeing whats not real rather than having new explanations for things, it was more a thing of seeing and becoming aware of the illusion of pretty much everything. I have looked into what Leo said about it and he specifically says in his video about the law of attraction that it works but its not to do with vibrations and the meta-physical stuff. Sadhguru also explicitly states that God will not lift one finger to help you and that its more about taking away the blocks you have in your mind, if youre being honest you will at least be able to see what he was saying if you watch the video, even if you dont agree. That doesnt mean what youre saying is wrong just interesting to note their opinions. But like i said i have experienced it and it has works but i just dont see why the magical explanations are needed. The other thing is why did so many more people start experiencing it in the way you describe after the Secret was popularised?

No offence taken, i was just clarifying Of course you can become conscious of many other levels, the material realm is almost like the surface i guess, but i wouldnt assume i have come complete clarity of every other level of consciousness, all i can say is the material world is limited. Vibrations are not necessarily stupid they exist and in a heightened state maybe you could be more aware of them. How you can tie them to changing thought patterns that then lead to magically create something to appear in your life i have no direct experience of but maybe its true. My explanation would be more like if i wanted to buy a house, before i decided to i wouldve said i didnt really notice for sale signs, after i decided i started noticing a crazy amount of signs. Did the signs magically appear because i decided or were there the same amount of signs and my brain paid more attention as i added importance to the signs that i didnt before? Maybe both of them are not true, maybe one is and one isnt but in my direct experience i dont think more signs suddenly appeared because i thought about them. But maybe your experience is different i dont know, could you break down how you experience something like the example i mentioned?

Youre pegging me as materialist which i understand you coming to that conclusion as im saying the reasoning given by the law of attraction is not sufficient and is more allegorical, so i guess if youre thinking binary you would get to, i must be materialist. But i agree with you in that science is limited, of course it can not truly tell you what a thought is, you would have to experience it directly thats the only way to know, so any explanation or description is always second to direct experience. But if thats the case it would go with magical beliefs also, your direct experience (just an example) is that maybe you set an intention, did practices and tried to keep thinking and feeling you already had whatever it is you wanted. Now we can explain this using logic, or psychology or even science but the direct experience of the thing happening cant be understood without directly experiencing it. Now what youre doing with LOA is trying to explain happening using what you call meta-physics or vibrations but you dont know that that is whats going on, its not in your direct experience. It doesnt make the happening automatically sacred or unquestionable because youre using this language, the same way that someone religious could say, i prayed for something and God granted me it, the happening is true but the meaning put onto it is created. The Sadhguru video to me it was quite clear what he was saying and i think @Michal__ agreed to a certain extent, Sadhuguru literally said if you have simple faith that would at least let you not have mental blocks and be questioning so youre able to take action on things, i dont think anywhere in the video he said that whatever if you think will magically come to you via vibrations. Im willing to hear your interpretation but i would ask please be truly honest about what he saying.

@Michal__ @Thestarguitarist14(phone bug) Appreciate the reasonableness. I've heard him say something along the lines of, 'when you become a bit more conscious, you realise that you can have an effect on your life and those around you, but after a while you also realise that that is not very meaningful'. Something like that anyway, but he was talking about at first you use your consciousness for more material things and then you realise that's not really important so you look to help other people or a deeper meaning. But again his take doesn't seem to be the mind literally creating things, it seems to be to gain mastery over the self, including the mind to then take the sufficient action for whatever your intention is. This doesn't discount that you could be correct on what you're saying, I just don't think sadhguru would agree entirely with what you're saying, going by what he's said.

@Michal__ @Thestarguitarist14(phone bug) You'd have to admit that guessing what Sadhguru meant by contradicting what he actually said for reasons you're suggesting is at least projection and speculation. It might be the case that he meant what you're saying but we have no way to know that, so why not just go off what he is explicitly saying? Otherwise we might as well do that with anyone that doesn't completely agree with us. I've got no first hand experience with voodoo but I'm open to the possibility, I don't know if you can show me something or whatever. Nofap keeps your hands free for action so you can manifest better. Unless you want to manifest more fapping

@Michal__ Yes I can see that being the reason LOA books doing that to help people bypass over analyzing, that does make sense and can be beneficial. But I think at some point it's important to realise this as it will turn into a dogma especially if people start seeing it work. Again it's similar to the bible where they might be presented in that way to be more easily understood and prevent over thinking but then it becomes dogma as people miss what it was pointing to. I'm not too sure about voodoo but I haven't had any experience with it so I can't really comment. I would feel that you need action as Sadhguru was talking about, but obviously the mind is a massive if not the only component of starting the action. @Thestarguitarist14 if someone disagrees with you, how should they present it so that you don't become defensive and aggressive? Love anyway bro

@Michal__ I don't disagree with what's said in the video, he's basically saying to make anything happen you have to believe or know that it can happen, of course that's the case, if I really don't believe I can go outside of my house (agoraphobia) I won't be able to do it or at least it would be very difficult. He also says that you can become more conscious and as such be aware of what you truly want, again of course, these are all very important and very necessary. He also specifically says that God will not lift a finger to help you, as in nothing magical is going to happen, you have to do it and remove whatever mental blocks you have preventing that, which I whole heartedly agree with and my own life literally changed when I realised this. The disagreement comes in the pseudo-scientific explanation, where the reason given is somewhat magical, in that your thought vibrations are literally creating things. I think you can look at the secret as somewhat allegorical, I think some people take it as literal, similar to what happens with the Bible. Which becomes the danger if you make dogma out of it and become attached to it so much you get defensive when it's questioned as you shape your life around it.

I mean in comparison to expectations, as in what people expect conspiracies are compared to what they actually are. I blame hollywood lol

Reality is usually quite boring and practical

I read the book he did with Robert Greene a while back, 50th law, I dont remember it too well, but it was quite an easy read and there was the odd orange nugget in there. I think 50 cents story is pretty amazing, not many would even survive his upbringing let alone achieve the success he has, in fact 50 should've died prob a few times. To be that strong mentally without much family backing and then to be so emersed in red street life and then move to the top levels of corporate life is an incredible story and there are definitely lessons to be learnt from it. For now he's pretty hardcore orange so if you don't want that content it's probably not for you, I won't be running out to buy his book personally but he definitely deserves respect

Right, the purpose for a Lion is to be what it is, it would follow it would be the same for us but the problem is we are very complexed and have the ability to imagine anything in our minds. We can even imagine we are not what we are, the lion can not do this and has no choice but to be what it is. What causes suffering is that we cant just be as we are, if we could we'd be perfectly aligned. It could even be that the idea of some greater meaning is what throws us off our actual meaning of just being

True, ive actually gotten a lot out of the bible and Jesus' teachings but if i had taken it in from a 'true believer' of the religion i think it wouldve put me off just because of the dogmatic approach. There are some schools and religions that are an out and out scam but i actually think there is truth in everything, even watching the nxivim doc i could see that there was some truth in what their philosophies were it just went off the rails and turned into a cult. So im open minded in that respect i just dont gel with the 'i believe it because its true and its true because i believe it' kind of dogma, i also think its a bit risky to not have multiple sources, as in just to have one teacher or one religion as you will then tie yourself to that one ideology Yeah excellent reminder and advice. For the forum it is difficult as you have so many perspectives at once, but i guess just let people be where theyre at, if they are open to questioning im sure they will respond in an open way

No offence taken, im more taking a devils advocate role, in an effort to encourage people to have a look at their beliefs, i do the same with myself, but i understand why it may have come off it as it has. Of course stories and anything that leads you into spirituality and deeper meaning is great and that will be the path for some and probably was for myself, at some point that will need to be questioned to progress otherwise youll stay in the red pill pick up mindset for your whole life, or youll have a dogmatic religious belief for your whole life. But maybe that is the journey that some people will take and thats ok as well, but my perspective is if i see others in illusion should i at least encourage them to look in different directions, if they dont want to look then thats fine. Yes stories are great at conveying information, to be honest i find them much more digestable than hardcore science, however when they are taken on as truth that could be a problem, the presentation might be honest in that its fantasy but others could take it on as truth to fit whatever needs they want to fulfil. But i take your point that things need to unfold as they do and maybe its not for me to question things that i see as delusions, im not saying LOA is necessarily a delusion im just saying in general. I will say when ive had awakening experiences, what hit me so hard is the pain and suffering people experience being tied to beliefs, mainly the belief that we are a self, that brings so much pain and i felt a need to help people see out of that, but it is a very difficult task as the mind can feel a certain comfort even in pain. Ill also say that if the LOA lets you see that you dont have to be in pain by writing your own story then fair enough, i would just be concerned about tying yourself to any story as i see it as similar to tying yourself to the bible which can then be used to manipulate, i think there needs to be a certain level of consciousness to really be aware of what the LOA is and to also not get caught up in the dogmatic belief of it

Yes i used them to highlight the belief structure, other practices that follow a similar belief structure should definitely be questioned. Ultimately what any practice should do is allow you to drop any beliefs or thoughts and just witness and be with what is. I think even the religions i mentioned do this to some extent its just they have a whole load of other beliefs and rules you have to follow, then you end up getting tied to this and lose the point, it becomes dogmatic. Im not too concerned about the content but if it can point me in the right direction which is to stillness essentially, then im all for it in terms of helping to open up consciousness for everyone