Consept

So on the forum i notice that sometimes you get people with strong dogmatic beliefs, this can range from Trump is a coral genius and is going to save the world to im as enlightened as the Buddha to the law of attraction is is to do with meta physical vibrations. Now when i see these types of things i feel the urge to question them, this could be because i think truth is very important and i think just believing in anything that feels good to you can be dangerous, not only for you but you could influence others, most people that espouse these beliefs do so with unwavering certainty. Theres probably some things going on with my ego, where i want to be right about things and its almost offensive that someone can be so wrong. Theres also some compassion where i feel that someone has missed something and theyre lost in a delusion. I never try to call them out directly as in i wont just say 'youre wrong', i give reasons why theyre right as well as the other side that questions the belief. What i notice is that people are often overly defensive about them and they even start to attack or dismiss by saying things like, you dont get it because youre not conscious enough. So the question is it our responsibility as fellow people who are on some path of achieving higher consciousness, to call out delusions in others that are on a similar path? It would seem to me to be the compassionate thing to call it out rather than let someone live in delusion. Its not something that i would really do in normal life as your average person just wants to believe what they want and prizes that over truth, which is fair enough. But i feel like people are on here to drop delusions and become more conscious. Of course the question comes who is going to decide who is able to question who? For example if someone is deluded in some theory they may and probably do feel theyre being compassionate by opening your mind to it. So how do we navigate this thing or should we just let people get on with it live in their delusion and hope they get there in the end. Im well aware i could be deluded as well btw and if i am im happy for people to call me out on it and have a conversation about it

You feel that it's possible to completely disregard feelings and be some kind of objectively rational person but I would say it's close to impossible, everything goes through your feelings filter. You can see bias, feelings and different perspectives coming through people who claim to be rational all the time. Take someone like Ben Shapiro, who says 'facts don't care about your feelings', isn't it coincidental that all his objective facts lead him to conclusions that uphold his already established worldview and Conservative ideologies. If he was completely objective he wouldn't even have an established, rigid stand point. Being rational will always be through a human perspective, its like if an ant said they were rational and that led to a full understanding of the world, the ant can not see as much we can or in the way we can so it does not have a full understanding or view of the world. In the same way are view is always limited, really the only 'rational' approach would be to realise the limitations of rationality, I could argue putting rationality first before feelings would be irrational because rationality is a concept somewhat created by our feelings, so why not accept your feelings first and then add rationality as a concept after

Ultimately it still comes back to your feelings, you like a rational approach because it feels good, it gives you some kind of certainty, if it didn't feel good you wouldn't take that approach. Feelings just happen and then we put a perspective on them or act in response to them, the key is to witness or just feel the feelings without trying to work them out with language in our head. In that way you could act more consciously rather than being unconsciously thrown around by your feelings

I get your point but i think mostly these examples are ones that people can freely choose and the risks both long term and short term are known, should also note that government would probably ban sugar or tax it highly but would get a lot of pushback from people who claim they want the freedom to choose, so its always a balancing act between 'freedom' and safety. We live in a world someone can drink bleach get sick and sue the company that sold them the bleach, thats why we have 'dont drink bleach' on bleach bottles lol. The government is always in a damned if you do, damned if you dont position because if they put up safety regulations people see it as taking away freedom, if they dont people want to know why they just let whatever happen when they couldve regulated it. Seat belts are a great example, when they first came out people did not want to use them and complained in a similar way to the mask wearing, nanny state etc, but obviously seat belts do and have saved lives. With Covid, we dont know the long term effects, many people who had it months ago are still reporting effects from it, so it would make sense to take a better safe than sorry approach at least temporarily.

Yes I agree I'm not sure if that was clear in my post. A lot of people against the lockdown, that I've come accross anyway, outright reject there's even a virus, which is what a lot of the protests are about. The people on the other side are not denying the virus obviously but they're also feeling the effects of the lockdown themselves but are sacrificing for other people. A high conscious person would look at both sides and I don't think they'd deny the virus so that they could benefit

Definitely, im not sure hes that bothered either way, he just doesnt want to look bad, like with brexit lol I think to answer the op though I would say most people that are anti-lockdown, not you Charlie cos i think youre more advocating for healthy lifestyle, but most just dont want their life to be impacted and so are actively looking for reasons why there shouldnt be a lock down, it doesnt really come from a place of high consciousness in that theyre not taking the whole situation into account, for example it would be hard to keep the position if they had direct experience with it ie going to the hospital, talking to people that have had covid etc. Lock down may or not be the right choice but i feel that the intention behind the people protesting it comes more from a place of selfishness which you could call low consciousness, many people ive talked dont believe it because they dont know anyone who has it, which is pretty selfish imo as i wouldnt say cancer doesnt exist because i dont know anyone who has it. The people on the other side some are people that just will follow the government, of course thats true, but a lot of them are aware of how bad a lockdown is and are making sacrifices because they believe its the right thing, so their intention is not self interested because they too are suffering from the lockdown. So it doesnt necessarily make them higher consciousness but it means they are taken into account a wider scope and most likely you wouldnt find many highly conscious people who are staunchly against a lockdown, although i do understand your intentions are slightly different Charlie

I agree with you in that ultimately having the prevention of a healthy living standard is obviously going to improve peoples healths, mentality etc but its almost like a separate issue, because right now if people started that doing it it wouldnt get rid of covid and the situation we're in, so there does need to be emergency measures of some kind. Also, as you know, in the UK its not that easy to switch peoples habits, im sure you remember Jamie Olivers healthy food in schools campaign where the parents and kids protested and also recently when the lowered the sugar in irn-bru and Scottish people signed petitions against and i think many boycotted it. So in other words promoting habit changes seems to be hard in the UK whether its tempoary measures like the covid stuff or longer term measures like what youre talking about. The question for me is, is there trust for the government, if there is trust then you would permit them to make mistakes as you know that their intention is whats best for the population, if there isnt trust then every move they make will be questioned. That there is lack of trust really falls on the governments hands and how shady and self-serving politics has been over the years. If we hadnt had all the crap with the bankers bonus', sub-prime mortgage recession, bail outs, Brexit, austerity, trickle down economics, iraq, grenfell etc etc, all within the last 10-15 years, and the government was seen to be for the people rather than corporations then i think there wouldnt be too much distrust and the people would go along with whatever. If you look at Sweden their strategy might be right or wrong but the point is people followed along, as did most of the countries in northern europe dispite differing strategies. So really i think what were seeing is the result of poor government decisions with a capitalist mindset that has run riot. Thats not to say there arent good people in the government but the system that exists is not for the people and those are the ones rebelling. The actual actions theyre doing for covid i think people would complain either way, if you remember at the start Boris wanted to do herd immunity and literally everyone complained about it, thats why they switched the strategy to a lockdown type thing, so either way people would complain i think. Im actually suprised they did do a lockdown considering how their main concern is the economy, but guaranteed, if we didnt lockdown, people will be out protesting now about how we should lockdown and most likely would be the same people protesting now lol

Its the same here in the UK but we've been split since brexit. It would be interesting to look at countries that have a strong alt right populist movements and correlate that to how theyve done during corona, i would guess countries that are more divided probably have done the worst

The mask thing I really don't get, I understand its uncomfortable or a bit itchy or whatever but it's not that bad. Most people who are anti-mask claim it doesn't work or there aren't any studies, but either way they are not 100% sure about that, so what a gamble to make where if you're wrong and the mask is even 1% effective 1000s could lose their lives, if you're right you just had to feel slightly uncomfortable in the supermarket for nothing. The twisting they do on this issue is crazy. The whole thing though I think is a sign that people in certain countries, don't trust their governments

I get what youre saying, but i think your point of view might be different to others here. As i understand youre saying as an infinite being the law of attraction can be used to attract all reality of itself or ourself. I am right now inquiring how this is true whilst simultanously creating the reality that im inquiring about. OK yes although im probably not at the level of consciousness to experience that yet. But as i understand it, the LOA as its spoken about in books like the secret is very different to what youre talking about, I can resonate with what youre saying, but i feel like books like the Secret would actually make people miss deeper truths if they believe it dogmatically, the same as you could say the bible points to the same truths that you are talking about, but if taken dogmatically this can be missed. Have you understood my perspective through this thread because all im talking about is that using an explanation such as the one found in the secret is not the best way to go about understanding the deeper truths that you are touching on. Im not sure if im being understood or im just completely misguided

Ah ok got you. OK so we would know that theres hay there but maybe we dont know the properties or exactly how much hay there is or even why its there, so in that case its better to say 'we know hay is there but thats all we know so far', if you then guess how much is there and what the properties are and then say its definitely that just because youre aware of the hay, you will then miss out on what is actually there or any chance of becoming more conscious to realise whats there if you are stuck on what you think is there

Sorry man im having trouble grasping what your point is. Im probably missing it, are you saying LOA is basically a pointer to all experience? You would need to give me your definition of LOA because i didnt know that is what you meant. Im not saying this to debate im just trying to get what you mean. Explain like im 8

Thanks Well ultimately thoughts are a happening not something we can really do ourselves, which then would question free will, which would then affect the whole theory of LOA as how can you be consciously creating through thoughts that think themselves? But lets no go down that rabbit hole, i know what you meant. My opinion on it if thats what your asking is that there is definitely an affect that your thoughts have on reality, thats within my direct experience and can be felt even with the energy i maybe projecting and how people may act differently depending on my state. The explanation of energy and thoughts is somewhat mysterious, science has tried to explain it but of course its limited as its not actual experience. So theres a leap that has to be made with any experience when you bring in an explanation, the explanation is essentially for other people to maybe grasp what your experience was. Now i guess ultimately im now seeing that my point was that magic is not really the best explanation as in the best way for people to understand the experience, as has been said it uses purple language at least. The reason why i say its not the best explanation is there is a tendency to create dogma around it, as it sounds mystical and exciting and i think that can lead you away from what the experience actually is. My theory with religion is that someone had a genuine mystical experience, tried to explain it and had to use allegorical language to explain the unexplainable, but people took this allegorical language literally and created stories and had wars defending it. Obviously im not saying LOA is going to create wars i just think there a better ways to explain it that could avoid potential dogma. By the way i only brought up Leo as others were talking about the opinions of more well known spiritual people, i dont take anything Leo says as gospel, without my own direct experience. Ive been on this journey a while now My logical brain is shut off most of the time lol, im open for it working and im sure it will work again, its just not in my direct experience that its magic thats all im saying

@Michal__ @Thestarguitarist14 Nah honestly I'm glad it works for you guys and I'm not even saying it doesn't work, for me like I said it worked, I just don't see the link of what you attribute it to and I don't get why you're so certain it's that. My perspective is always I don't really know and it would be a leap to say I know anything outside of my direct experience. But if you're honestly saying you've had direct experience and the only way to explain the happenings is magic then it's not really for me to dispute that. If you're deluded hopefully you see clearly and if I'm not seeing what is real, which is magic, then I honestly hope I do see that as it want to know and feel what is real. I will give you a concrete example cos I was kinda into the LOA a bit, years ago. But I wrote down a few things that I wanted, one was an audi a3 specifically amongst others things. I stopped thinking about it and just put it to the side and set the intention, I completely forgot that I wrote the list. Cut to about 3 years later I found the list and a lot of things had come true including the audi which was now parked in front of my place. Now did magic from my thoughts cause this to happen or did I plant this in my sub-conscious and then when I had enough money I bought the car, who knows, maybe its kinda the same thing. But from my perspective it felt like I set it in my mind that it was possible and then it happened, if I didn't think it was possible it prob wouldn't have happened, I don't feel like I experienced magic, but maybe I'm not conscious enough to feel it or maybe mine was due to thinking and some peoples are due to magic or maybe magics a way to explain this occurance. ??‍♂️ I still think the principles are valuable to have either way

Yes you can call thought magic i have no problem, i was just stating that as we've defined spiral dynamics it would be purple along with spirit realm, magical powers, psychic powers and other things that have been mentioned in this thread. Yes i understand we are all it, in Leos video regarding this subject he explicitly states that LOA is not to do with magic, that was my only comment regarding that. It doesnt mean that hes right im just noting it. Yes the terminology is purple-ish and i would argue the reasoning is somewhat purple in that something happens and you would reason that its because of LOA, this is similar to what a tribal person might believe. If youre saying that youre on some higher consciousness and that specifically doesnt apply to you because you have a completely different outlook and understanding than most humans, then i cant argue with that and ill have to take your word for it. I assumed you would put me orange, i expected this as Leos (older views) and Sadhgurus views were dismissed or explained away, so ultimately who am i? I would say that you should be aware of your bias' because consider that if Leo or Sadhguru had expressly said they believe in magical manifestation you would have used that as confirmation of your views but because they disagreed to some extent you claimed that you knew more in this realm than Sadhguru, this strikes me as somewhat biased because essentially theres no way you could be wrong or challenged. I would also say putting someone at a lower level than yourself could be a way to keep your belief going, essentially absolutely anyone who disagrees or thinks different to you regarding this subject i think you would automatically put them at a lower level than yourself, even if in reality they could be more developed than you (im not necessarily saying i am specifically), if you dont put them at a lower level you would say that they dont understand said subject as much as you. This really smacks of bias thinking. If youve noticed ive not really been defensive or acted defensive, but i have noticed that a lot in this thread, which shows a strong attachment to belief, youll also notice i havent pegged you at a level as i dont have enough information on you and i dont need you to be lower so i can dismiss you and hold on to a belief. If i had agreed with you fully, you wouldve put me on a higher level most likely, meaning everyone who agrees is higher in your estimation than anyone who disagrees. These are just some observations ive made, but im sure you will dismiss them as not true in some way lol. But no you havent been that insulting, other posters have obviously but im not offended or anything, i know i am questioning beliefs that you guys hold dear and that of course could be true, so i guess i expected some backlash, i didnt bring it up to play the victim i was making the point that it wasnt especially high conscious to insult people that disagree with you, but i understand the reasoning behind it so its all love. To be honest there is a lot of mystery in the world which i think is amazing and i sometimes get suspicious when people have a certainty about things, because, cool if theyre right its good theyve worked it out, but if theyre wrong and then theyre mind is closed to other possibilities it means they will never actually be open to the reality of it which might be that there is no answer (not specifically talking about this thread) As they say a wise man knows he knows nothing. Anyway all the best to everyone on the thread. Heres Eckart talking about mysteries -

I havent got defensive this whole thread, despite being called names and being insulted by you yellow folks quite often, so no this wont be an exception. Its your opinion, i would question it if its based off the fact that i dont believe in magic but either way, magical thinking is usually pegged at purple, thats why i brought it up. Thats not to say a yellow person couldnt use it but it is a purple trait. Anyway yeah i guess you couldve, theres no way to prove either way through this text format so ill take your word for it

Ill have a look into it, ive never heard of magic type things in reference to stage yellow, but guess its possible. Have a go at the LSD $1000 thing, id love to see that in action

Why did you reject it in favour of the magical belief? I was assuming you rejected it it not that you werent aware of it btw Not really although it sounds fun. Like i said of tried setting intentions and all of that which then came true, in fact i would go as far as to say i do generally set intentions in my life, but i see it more as removing the mental blocks to get what i want rather than something external and magical. That does sound cool, what is it? lol

Consider that you might be able to logically explain it but you reject any logical explanation because you like your one. An explanation for example might be that humans evolved to notice things that they wanted and needed more because they needed these things to survive. For example early hunter-gatherers would need to spot exactly what they can eat so they and their tribe could survive, its likely that this couldve evolved in the brain that once a human knew what they were looking for that thing stood out more than other things. Imagine trying to gather food in a new environment you would need to build up that skill of finding things in the wilderness and of course that would get passed down from generation to generation over 1000s of years. Cut to modern day were not hunting and gathering but maybe once we say we want something our awareness for that thing heightens. Does it seem magical? Definitely but that doesnt necessarily mean that it is. Now im not saying this explanation is true, i dont honestly know but i think it is a legitimate theory that could explain this phenomenon, especially when you take into account how we and other animals have evolved to aid our survival. Leo or me or whoever shouldnt necessarily change your opinion and thats not my intention, but i would say that you should look at new perspectives and always question long standing beliefs and look at how do you actually know this thing you claim to know? Its an internal process and im aware im not going to dent your belief if you are really attached to it Yeah maybe, we dont actually know his updated opinion as ive said but again I wouldve expected him to talk about it again by now if his opinion had changed especially given how much of an impact it would be for everyone to know it, but maybe it has and he hasnt done a video for it

Could be the case, although he was conscious enough to do videos about spirituality around the same time. But notice how your mind goes to defend this position even in light of some evidence of, in this case Leos opinion (not whether LOA is real). In fairness we dont know his updated opinion although it is curious that he hasnt done a video expressly about the LOA or really even mentioned it in the way you guys claim it exists in the last 6 years, if it was as you say it is and Leo is conscious enough by your standards now, i wouldve thought he would have done many videos on it, i dont get why he wouldnt talk about it directly, especially if his opinion did change on it. I wouldnt say he was orange then although he has evolved a lot since then so he couldve had more orange aspects, however he was doing videos specifically about spirituality, i dont think youd find that on an orange channel

Its the only one i kind find, could you link me to a newer one where he specifically talks about the secret or the law of attraction. The other law of attraction one ill put below but that was done before the one about the secret that i posted earlier. Also in the one below he says its to do with human psychology and he doesnt really mention anything about higher states of consciousness or vibrations, again not saying it couldnt be the case im just saying Leo didnt mention it. It could be maybe you guys bias' is affecting how youre seeing Leos public view on this, if you disagree with him its fine - Watching the video now and he literally says its not through magical meta physical happening and that it appears that way. It is a good video though, old school Leo

Have a watch and let me know, it is six years old but he released a no-bullshit guide to spirituality in the same year, so id assume he was into spirituality around then

What do you think of Leos take, im curious

OK apologies i didnt mean to frame it in a way that youre not framing it, i was trying to go off what others on the thread were saying. So i would say ive experienced wanting something and believing i would get it and it came true and also not in a surface level way but it did feel like more opportunities were popping up for this thing out of nowhere. However i wouldnt necessarily put it down to an unexplained synchronicity. Also it should be noted that as humans we tend to experience things and then try and find an explanation after, this could be the case whether its scientific or magical. I have personally experienced deeper planes of reality through psychedelics and meditation, but i would describe this more as a seeing whats not real rather than having new explanations for things, it was more a thing of seeing and becoming aware of the illusion of pretty much everything. I have looked into what Leo said about it and he specifically says in his video about the law of attraction that it works but its not to do with vibrations and the meta-physical stuff. Sadhguru also explicitly states that God will not lift one finger to help you and that its more about taking away the blocks you have in your mind, if youre being honest you will at least be able to see what he was saying if you watch the video, even if you dont agree. That doesnt mean what youre saying is wrong just interesting to note their opinions. But like i said i have experienced it and it has works but i just dont see why the magical explanations are needed. The other thing is why did so many more people start experiencing it in the way you describe after the Secret was popularised?

No offence taken, i was just clarifying Of course you can become conscious of many other levels, the material realm is almost like the surface i guess, but i wouldnt assume i have come complete clarity of every other level of consciousness, all i can say is the material world is limited. Vibrations are not necessarily stupid they exist and in a heightened state maybe you could be more aware of them. How you can tie them to changing thought patterns that then lead to magically create something to appear in your life i have no direct experience of but maybe its true. My explanation would be more like if i wanted to buy a house, before i decided to i wouldve said i didnt really notice for sale signs, after i decided i started noticing a crazy amount of signs. Did the signs magically appear because i decided or were there the same amount of signs and my brain paid more attention as i added importance to the signs that i didnt before? Maybe both of them are not true, maybe one is and one isnt but in my direct experience i dont think more signs suddenly appeared because i thought about them. But maybe your experience is different i dont know, could you break down how you experience something like the example i mentioned?