Consept

I agree i think the stereotypes will collapse and it all will become irrelevant, it will most likely take a while though My bad, birth sex OK thanks for answering. I will say yes then because i cant see an argument that someone can change their gender but someone else cant change another thing that may define them, if they felt strongly about it. As in why do we get to pick and choose what someone can and cant do? I get the argument that there are hormones and theres a spectrum and theres a condition of gender dysphoria, but there could be different but also affecting reasons why someone might want to change their age. The mainstream narrative is that trans-gender people should be accepted and this is of course how it should be, no one should be persecuted for how they are or choose to be. But just as i thought experiment imagine if we heard a lot in mainstream media about how trans-age people should be accepted and we learn about the psychological issues they have and reasons why they would like to change their age, maybe how theyre persecuted for being old, do you think that people will eventually accept that this is a thing and let people legally change their age?

"A sprawling report released Tuesday by a Republican-controlled Senate panel that spent three years investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 election laid out an extensive web of contacts between Trump campaign advisers and Kremlin officials and other Russians, including at least one intelligence officer and others tied to the country’s spy services. The report by the Senate Intelligence Committee, totaling nearly 1,000 pages, drew to a close one of the highest-profile congressional investigations in recent memory and could be the last word from an official government inquiry about the expansive Russian campaign to sabotage the 2016 election. It provided a bipartisan Senate imprimatur for an extraordinary set of facts: The Russian government disrupted an American election to help Mr. Trump become president, Russian intelligence services viewed members of the Trump campaign as easily manipulated, and some of Mr. Trump’s advisers were eager for the help from an American adversary." This is from the New York Times, basically giving a summary of the findings, would you disagree?

Im gonna be annoying and answer your question with a question - Should we allow people to change their birth gender at will?

Do you disagree with the findings of the bi-partisan senate panel?

It seems like just looking at a chair and saying thats a chair to you, but obviously its not the same for everyone. When you show someone a chair and theyre adamant its a tv you have to let them just get on with it lol

I guess this applies more to the politics sub, the thing is if people are pushing an agenda what is the point in that discussion? Its not coming from a place of intellectual honesty, in that the person would be willing to change their mind if presented with counter evidence. The thing is most people on here can see it a mile away, their goal is to convince us that theyre neutral and theyve come to this conclusion that Trump is fighting evil or whatever but its so obvious what the intention is. Its easy for others to bite including myself as the assumption i that they are just missing something but its absolutely not the case.

Lol didn't know that but it does make sense, I'm in the UK and Obama was basically a hero here. But either way I don't think there was a senate investigation into it, funny though

OK so stay on that, if for example a bi-partisan senate panel confirmed that Obama was in collusion with the UK to influence the 2012 election, would you say that was somewhat true? Really picture this happening before giving an answer

You can and probably should do that on both counts, most likely we'll get there in however many years. The issues come in for now when you want others to recognise that, or you want to be legally recognised as whatever age or race or no age or race. For example there could be issues with taking a pension in your country dependent on age.

The trans-age guy got lost his court battle to change his age, he gets questioned on the trans-gender thing as well -

What was the truth that Leo refuses to see by the way?

What would a good teacher for politics look like?

No, this is a very surface level idea. If you look at society systemically youll see there is a reason most violent crime is committed by those in poverty. To a large extent society is responsible for having such wealth discrepancies that it fosters poverty stricken communities. Eye for an eye works on the assumption that everyone has 100% responsibility for their actions and their choices were in no way influenced by external factors. in my opinion yes you have to protect the public from violent criminals, but rehabilitation is extremely important and trying to make peoples lives better will benefit society as a whole

Dam, John Lenon really went in on this one, ive got a feeling a lot of people wouldve got triggered by it. I only really took in the lyrics when i started getting into spiritual things so i always liked it

OK fair enough, all love. I think it maybe more relevant than you realise. As a species we are moving toward trans-humanism, theyll be a time when we almost merge with technology and who knows what affect this will have on age and other physical factors. But yeah i agree its not the same thing, but at the same time why can someone claiming it be mocked whereas a trans person is (rightfully) defended? I dont think its that far off, as we know time is illusory and biological is is a thing as well as mental age. The gender argument includes whether someone is masculine or feminine or where they fall on that spectrum, its different but I dont think its a crazy comparison. Funny you should say, there is actually a boy who believes hes a cyborg who was on Dr Phil. But i think that is the issue, anyone is free to claim theyre anything but getting society to go along with that is another thing

@datamonster I think you have to consider how hard it is to keep a forum on track, especially when politics is introduced. Lets say all the Trump supporters were allowed to post whatever they want on here, no one got banned etc. Most posts will go on forever arguing about Trump, its rare that pro-trump posts have a meta analysis, if there are any feel free to share. So if one is stuck to an ideological position that Trump can do no wrong, as was evidenced in the Trump knew about covid thread, then is it not just a waste of time to argue back and forth on it? There has to be some regulation, i think it would be a similar case if someone went on about Biden all the time. To give an example would it be a good idea to let christian fundamentalists come on here and argue whether christianity is the one true religion? Then when you provide arguments against that they quote the bible? At certain point we have to say this is a limited discussion. I do hear you on maybe Leo guiding people, but again if someone is stuck to ideological position its very hard to guide them, as for them to even listen to you, you would have to agree with them. Ive spent many threads and words talking to people with ideological positions here on this forum and 100% of the time it has gone nowhere, so theres not much you can do about that imo

She does gaslight in other instances though, she was on celebrity big brother and the singer Ginuwine got some backlash for saying he wouldnt date a trans woman, when she pushed him in it, clip below. But i dont want to take her as an example of all trans women, i dont know that to be the case but it is fair to say her perspective is whats being pushed in the media. I was involved in the thread about race and to me things like trans racial are interesting as its a new way that humans are seeing themselves, so i think the discussion is worthwhile, im mixed race black and white btw. Not to be rude but i dont think its for you to say what should be discussed, no one was offended by the race and if anyone is offended by this one they can say, i have tried my best to be respectful. I would also say the arguments in your last paragraph wouldve applied to trans-gender people 50 or so years ago and probably still used today, people wouldve been dismissive at best of trans-gender people and would never have accepted that they could change gender. So relatively speaking i dont think its that different from the age thing. Moreover i just found it interesting how ridiculed this guy in the video was compared to other who want to change their sex.

Politics is always going to be somewhat biased because its asking you to polarise yourself between parties. I think whats better to look at is the intention behind whatever the argument is, for example its clear to see progressives ultimately want equality for people and less power for the rich, conservatives broadly want to keep the status quo and 'traditional' values or even revert to older values, dems are kind of in between but are also concerned about the economy. Within these each individual might have different incentives. Of course all assessments can be biased but if we want to look at things consciously we have to try and be as honest and unbiased as possible and try and give a meta view. What i notice on the forum is that if you say Trump is red and that hes more about power and even show examples, some will not be happy because theyre tied to the opinion that Trump is a saviour and dems are evil. As far as i can see Leo and most others are not going to support a party like the dems blindly, its whether they have policies that are progressive and for the people, thats the key thing, the party is almost irrelevant. For example Mccain before he died started supporting a couple of liberal causes if i remember correctly and he wouldve got support for those that are progressive, they wouldnt automatically condem him because hes rep. So i think at least on this forum it would be good to get away from partisan politics arguments and actually talk policies, any criticism is fair game as long as its legitimately backed up. If you do feel that youre tied to a particular party you are most likely the cause of the argument.

So what youre saying is Leo creates a party line that he either believes or thinks everyone will be happy with and then everyone agrees and follows?

Well the difference with age change is that biologically you could be younger or older than your age, in fact its most likely usually the case. Unfortunately for you with your penis size that wouldnt be the case, i guess you could tell everyone that you feel like you have a big dick trapped in a small dick and youre transitioning and everyone should cognizant of that. What would be the difference between trans-age and trans-gender, aside from more people fighting for trans-gender?

Theres pills for that, allegedly Are you saying trans-gender is stage green excess?

This is actually a follow-on from what we were discussing in the other thread regarding race. Wouldnt a trans-gender claim that they are actually the sex they changed to, as is shown in the second video i posted? You could also say that the trans-woman is gaslighting in the same way you mention. Not saying all trans-genders do this btw. Also the with age you could say a similar thing such as 'my birth certificate age is x but my actual age is y' but the main thing is that you would get the rights of someone a different age to you, it doesnt have to be a denial.

Podcast episode with Conner Murphy, if you remember him he was the youtuber who had a breakdown/spiritual awakening

Right but some people might make the same argument with gender. If i im 60 but i feel 40 and this is backed up biologically through tests etc, what is the difference between that and someone whos male but feels female? Why should they be allowed legally to change their gender but the 60 year old cant change their age? Yeah there'd be quite a few popular 15 year olds lol. Youre right it would cause a lot more problems with law, maybe you could say you can only change your age over the age of 18 or something like that. But just because of the law issues does it make it less valid than trans-genderism? Also if you look at the reactions from the presenters in the media, one is laughed at and one is defended

Why not? Theres an expectation of what old people should be like or what young people should be like, that is also a social construction. Time is relative and experienced differently for everyone, so time itself is a concept. You could maybe make the argument that gender as a social construct is more prevalent but im not even sure thats definitely true.