Consept

What about working at a gym? You come in contact with lots of people, most of which have good routines and are health conscious. You don't have to do crazy hours and you can have conversations where you're not shouting in someone's ear

I think it depends, I'm from the UK as well and it's nor so normal in the south especially in big cities, but up north, Ireland, Scotland its very normal

I've experienced a couple of perspectives to this. One is growing up in South London, UK where you would never smile at a stranger and there was a defensive environment as people who were 'nice' to you could try and rob you. In this environment, in general I wasn't happy so it never occurred to me to smile at anyone. Moving to a smaller town as an adult, some people, not everyone, would smile or greet me in shops or even on the street. I believe people in smaller towns don't have to have their guard up and so are free to express happiness, this seemed strange to me when I first moved. After while, I got into that frame and didn't feel I'm danger, so now I may smile or even get into small convos with random people. I don't go out of my way to do it but if I'm in the right mood or state I find it quite a loving thing to do, to acknowledge someone else's existence. But I also understand why someone might not feel to do it.

The mindsets can be linked, in that someone just might have a negative idea of life that they can't achieve anything and it's not worth trying and of course that can extend to several areas like financial etc. But it's also very possible that you can have a lot of money and still not be good with women, at best you could attract gold diggers who don't really like you but like what your money can do for them. Money is important because it can help you level up in different areas, have better clothes, work out, go to therapy etc but it's not a draw by itself. I'd actually put it quite low at of all the attributes that are attractive in of themselves, a homeless person with a lot of game and charisma could attract women, whereas a rich person who's awkward, has no game would definitely have a harder time. Of course there are always hurdles whatever your situation, life is pretty much about getting over hurdles. But what happens with the incel mentality is they believe because there are hurdles what they want to do is not possible and then create a narrative, that they feel is science backed, to justify not even trying. The reality is they are scared to put themselves out there and risk rejection, getting over that fear is the first hurdle a d they are not willing to attempt to jump it. It's like if I want to learn guitar but I'm not good right away, so I start researching and find out people with my hand shape aren't guitarists or some other reason and then never try. Meanwhile there are people with one hand that are learning guitar somehow.

@Bobby_2021 I get what your saying and if it was just a matter of having sex with the boss it would be a bit more tricky to prove anything. The problem is that he was essentially using her as a sex slave and getting her to have sex with lots of his friends, colleagues etc. Using coercion to do it, ie if you want xyz you need to do what I say. There's a confirmed story that he literally shit on her head while they were having a threesome with one of his friends/co-workers and refused to let her go and clean up before they finished fucking her. I mean this was next level humiliation. If you look into the case it's actually shocking. So Vinces argument can only be that she's into it. But I think people seem to have a hard time understanding grooming because they think, 'well I wouldn't have done that they could've chose not to do that', but if you're vulnerable and someone like Vince is specifically targeting you, you dont really stand a chance. Grooming happens all the time, normal people get groomed to join cults or gangs or to basically do things they never would've considered before the grooming started. Its deep psychological manipulation and most people just don't see it coming. But yeah if it's just sex with the boss it would be he said, she she said. If the person is given a job specifically to be groomed to be a sex slave and sexually humiliated then yeah that's something else.

I don't think money is really a factor with incels. What stops incels, and others with similar mindsets, is that they just don't believe improvement is possible. Their whole ideology is based around them being doomed by things out of their control, mainly their looks. If they do have a lot of money they're more likely to spend it on plastic surgery rather than coaching or self improvement. To learn anything you have to have the mindset that you can do it, same with therapy. You have to believe that you can improve your depressed state otherwise there is no way you will go to therapy. Conversely, if you do believe that it's possible, nothing will stop you, even not having enough resources. If you really thought it was possible to improve your dating life you would do everything in your power to make it happen, even if that meant volunteering with one of them to learn from them. So the hurdle is always your belief and mindset.

The Vince case is pretty cut and dry, the texts are next level extreme, there a multiple people involved. The other guy named has thrown Vince under the bus and now said he was also a victim. The only possible defense Vince could have is that she wanted it and was into it but the extent of his power over her is so much that I don't think it's valid. Also its not like she did sex work before I was even known to be into wild shit, Vince at the start called her innocent and child like, he went for her specifically because of these traits not because she was into wild shit. The fact that Tate is siding with him or making a claim that she did this of her free will really sums up who he is. For him not to see a problem with behavior like this also condems him and why he doesn't see a problem with his own behavior. His team can not be happy with him commenting like this, it's crazy

This whole thread is just OP describing what he believes to be himself and then subtly complaining because he can't get a girlfriend even though he has all these positive attributes.

This is the answer to this whole thing, guys just want theorise and come up with equations of why they can't do this, but this is it literally you can't get a better answer

Realistically it must be exhausting to live that life for an extended amount of time, physically, mentally, spiritually etc

I dont think Owens content on its own was that bad, but i think the way he hard sold his programs, the extortionate prices for bootcamps and the general culture around it wasnt great. Also there is some sort of axis of how popular you are to how controversial your content is in terms of you getting cancelled, so for example example no one was trying to cancel Tate a few years ago when not many people knew about him, however as soon as he gained a certain amount of audience and influence his views then got (rightfully scrutinised). I think Owen went through this where he hit a certain point of popularity and in fact, pick up as a whole gained popularity and because of this it was scrutinised and many didnt survive.

You're fearful of approaching and truly being yourself with people, everything else you said is a result of trying to justify that fear. This isn't a knock against you it's scary to approach people and depending on whatever trauma happened it can be even worse, but don't let your mind fool you into thinking its anything more than that. Once you accept its just an uncomfortable feeling you can then begin challenging that feeling. Forget all your bullshit narratives they are holding you back. Look at this video below and check out the channel, guys who feel fear approaching, without the beliefs you ascribe to women.

Let me give you an example, if you think of kids say around 5 years old, they very often will just go up to each other and just ask 'do you want to play?'. Their intention is solely having fun and they know that it can be a lot more fun playing with someone else. Now imagine there was a kid who was constantly worried about what to say to the other kids so that they would like him, he might try saying weird stuff or try and be funny or be overly serious or anything that wasn't actually authentic to him. The other kids can feel this on some kind of level and don't want to play with him. It's not cos this kid is bad it's just they can feel the inauthenticity, it's like he's trying to hide something, even if they don't know what it is and his uncomfortableness, energetically passes onto them making them feel uncomfortable. If the kid was honest and said I'm nervous but I want to play for example the other kids would feel that congruity and would be sympathetic. Hopefully you can see how this may relate to you, you have a strong outcome dependence with women, even in the quote you say you want to get into a flow state to make panties drop, which is almost a paradox as a flow state doesn't require an outcome it just is. Also you're not being yourself, stop lying to yourself, there are probably people you can be yourself around, friends and family etc if you contrast how you are with them against how you are with women my guess is it would be night and day. So the practice is just talk to people with no ulterior motive at all and being brave enough to truly be yourself, the more you do it the easier it will be. Forget all this endless pontificating about how the world is against uncalibrated people, this is just an excuse for the fear of truly being yourself.

It's funny because things like this are just like seeking 'enlightenment' in that if you realise you are already all you need to be, you don't need to seek it. Meaning if you can just relax and not be outcome dependent and actually just enjoy the process of talking to someone and getting to know them, you will do 100x better than obsessing about every little thing you say. There is no activity I can think of where being in your head and unrelated helps your performance, whereas if youre loose and in the moment your performance will be the best in can be. Because you strongly want an outcome this makes you unable to be in the moment because in your mind too much is at stake, women can sniff this on you from the get go, so that is what you need to let go of before stepping to a woman.

Sounds stressful

If you're the best at something that there's a high demand for, is hard to do and makes a lot of money then you will be put on a pedestal in society. Back in the day the hunters in tribes were probably put on a pedestal as well.

Youre not 'hoping' that someone will also value whatever trinket youre given in exchange for work, thats the whole point of a centralised currency, its backed by the goverment and you are assured of its value. This is just a necessary mechanism for trade its not a pyramid scheme. The scams come in when something (crypto, tulips, dotcoms) of no agreed value or government backing, are pumped up to have value that they don't actually have and then those who own these valueless entities sell it to people who now believe its valuable. Crypto and nfts are a perfect example as they have no value as they aren't something physical so the value is in the speculation that they could be a currency but many factors prevent it from being a better alternative than centralised currency. In many cases those who start these altcoins know that it's not going to replace currency so they are outright scamming people. Money can't really be a scam because it's inflation is tracked and its not an investment its just a way for something to hold value for you so that you dont get scammed.

Value is just what someone's willing to pay for something and fiat currency is just a way to use tokens to to measure value. Its used that we don't have to barter a 100 times swapping things until we get what we want. The only thing this token needs to be is trusted by everyone that uses it and something that itself remains relatively stable. The reason why there are central organisations in charge of it is because decentralisation can lead to scams, theft, unstable currency which we've seen all of with crypto. If you got scammed in the past with a ponzi scheme, with fiat you'd more than likely get your money back as banks will try and protect you, with crypto if you lose it, there's no one to run to. That being said there are of course pros and cons of both crypto and fiat, however crypto would need to have some features of a centralised currency such as protection.

I wrote this 2 and half years ago in the height of bitcoin being valued at over 50k. I've eased up a bit on bitcoin, although I probably wouldn't invest in it I get why others do, however most other if not all other crypto is pretty much a scam in my opinion. Also if you had invested I bitcoin when I wrote the post you would've lost a little bit but most likely you would've sold at some point at a loss when it started dropping.

No ones setting rules bro, even if I did it wouldnt matter as I have no authority. You don't have to listen to anyone, keep over thinking things, not caring if people feel uncomfortable, trying to get women to change the 1000s of years of evolution inbuilt in them, shaming women, whatever your strategies are go for it. Other people are just disagreeing with their own real life experience, I don't really get why you post here expecting people to agree with your takes. But basically everyone else is wrong or you're wrong, if its everyone else then obviously we're not on your level of understanding so there's no point in trying to convince us, if its you then there's some internal stuff you need to go off and really sort out, or not just keep thinking maybe one day the world will change to how you see it.

Yeah this basically, in a way its sad because its such an obvious sticking point to others but theres literally noting you can say to make the horse drink. It's like you can see the whole defense mechanism in play.

The video i presented was real life interactions, similar to how it would be if anyone approached women. The gym creep videos is done specifically to get views by women in which they basically set up guys to look at them and call them creeps for their followers, in real life this doesnt happen. Also these women would fall in the insane category you mentioned, no one takes them seriously specifically because they are not presenting real life. Ive been to the gym consistently for years and I rarely see people filming themselves in this way. I have seen guys filming girls without their consent though, although only once or twice, even then the girl didnt outright call the guy a creep she just avoided him. Its both, so if youre socially anxious, youre in your head and not thinking about the other person, the solution is to get out and become more social as a kind of exposure method. Part of being 'good' socially is taking how other people feel into account, thats the whole thing. Its not that people have to do this or that its your responsibility to make people feel comfrtable, this is only if you want to be good with people socially. You are free to make people feel uncomfortable or not take into account that something youre doing is making people feel uncomfortable, but people dont like feeling uncomfortable and if they do and you are the cause of that then obviously they wont want to be around you. Essentially you have to pick whether you want to not give a fuck about how people feel around you, in which case some will feel uncomfortable depending on how uncomfortable you make people feel. Or whether you want to connect with people socially and possibly romantically in which case you will have to foster a relationship where you both feel comfortable. Also it may not necessarily mean no one will like you if you dont care how they feel, but definitely romantically you would need a level of comfort, theres no way around it.

Youd have to show me some kind of evidence of women pointing at guys that approach them and calling them creeps, otherwise i dont know what we're talking about or how to prove your feelings about this. Most women will not call a guy a creep directly they will use it or similar to describe a guy who was acting in an uncalibrated way and usually when it seemed they were just interested in the girl for sex. I hear it sometimes from girls ive been with and theyll show me messages of guys sending them messages or tell me stories about a guy that approached them. They dont say every guy is creepy or not every guy comes accross as creepy but there are some that are very inappropriate and still persist even though theyve been told that she isnt interested, which is very socially uncalibrated. Of course if you really push her boundaries they may call you a creep directly, but in my experience of seeing/hearing about it, most women try several reasonable ways of getting them to back off before they resort to something like that, the guy would really not know how to take a hint and would need to calibrate before approaching anyone. This is no different than say sales people, if someone was trying to sell you something on the street and wouldnt take no for an answer, there would be a point where you might get a little aggressive and tell them to back off. As I said its not really gender specific, in terms of communication the 2 people have to feel comfortable talking to each other, if one doesnt for whatever reason they definitely have a right to cut that conversation asap. It doesnt make you a criminal that you dont care about womens comfort level but obviously women will not want to communicate with you if you make them feel uncomfortable. Its like a sales person saying 'I dont care about the people i sell to's comfort-level around me'. Then when no one wants to buy whatever theyre selling, blaming it on the people. If the sales person wants to actually sell and making people uncomfortable is his problem, he needs to work on that himself. If hes like 'im not changing for anyone', hes absolutely free to do that but hes probably not going to sell anything.

Do I support insane people wrongfully calling the police? No obviously if they're insane they probably need help. What I'm talking about is the majority, sane women who don't call the police as evidenced in the video. Feeling fear when you cold approach is natural as its out of most people's comfort zones and when we have fear we likely think of a worst case scenario, like the woman calling the police. However fear is a feeling and not necessarily real, as you've pointed out fear shouldn't rule you. So to challenge that fear it might be worth approaching to find out. If you don't want to do that I have presented 100s of guys, mostly socially uncalibrated who approached women and did not have this worst fear happen. What you're actually doing is making an argument for an irrational fear that I'd not actually based in real world evidence.

This is a bad faith, ad hominom argument. Youre attempting to attack me rather than my argument. My argument is simple, but ill break it down for you, you made the claim that women are likely to call the police on men who they consider 'creepy' that approach them. I'm offering evidence to contrary which literally shows video proof of mostly socially, uncalibrated guys approaching women with no police being called and I'm asking if this changes your argument. You also suggested that you are someone who listens to facts and evidence over your feelings, however it doesn't look like you are taking the evidence I've presented into consideration, which sounds like a contradiction. Of course you are free to feel and believe whatever you want regardless of the evidence but it doesn't make it true.