Consept

Really you can't get rid of negative thoughts, the only thing you can do is fully accept them and see them for what they are, which are just thoughts that without your fear of them are harmless

@Socrates Yes I agree it is attachment to desire, that's really what I meant in the post. I think buddha said if you end desire you end suffering or words to that effect. Would you say you are enlightened?

@Philip Lol yeah I know what you mean I've had similar thoughts, it's a balancing acceptance and being. The whole search for enlightenment is a paradox in itself like you alluded to, if you don't have a desire to be mindful what will motivate you to be mindful? But then this could be said for anything, making money, having a relationship etc all are motivated by desire and this is why most people on this spiritual path will say they're are fruitless. But what makes these desires different from a desire for enlightenment, in both cases the person striving believes these things will give them peace and in both cases the very thing stopping them from achieving peace is only the belief that they need these things. So the issue that is blocking your path is desire itself, you can fill in the blank with whatever you want, until desire is transcended enlightenment would be impossible. Also have a think about why you even want to be enlightened, or put another way, why do you not want to be where you are right now? Is it because you want to be more confident, happy more often, more fruitful, doing a job you like, not caring what people think, all these are posdibly the roots of your desires for enlightenment. Enlightenment is just an idea at least at the moment to probably all of us on this forum, so really there are other motivating factors behind that we think enlightenment will solve for us. Essentially these are the desires we really need to drop. Just to add as well if you ask any enlightened person they will tell you they became enlightened as soon as they stopped trying

Well you'd have to be enlightened or ask someone who is to get a real answer

I started reading or rather listening to the audio book a few years ago, before I got into spirtuality. At the time I was very put off by it, it seemed really harsh and my thinking was if I needed to do all this stuff to get what I wanted it just wasn't worth it. Now looking at it, it makes sense in that if you think transcending the ego isn't an option or possible, then this works in strengthening your ego. The idea that everyone's playing a game and you just need to play it better. In a way until you let go of yourself you are just playing a game. But I would say definitely take the book with a pinch of salt, it can be useful in that you can see the inner workings of how ego works and maybe even see stuff that you don't realise you do. How to win friends is kind of similar but I think that's more based on giving rather than power which is based on taking, for both there is manipulation involved, but I wouldn't say they're the same tactics

It seems that this thing of wanting to teach and tell people about your particular viewpoint isn't really unique to spirituality. Every religion does it, even people with certain lifestyles or political alegience or whatever opinion are always trying to convert you to their way of thinking, almost like it's not enough for them to just believe it and be done with it. You've got to think someone who is a completely fundamentalist Christian for example, believes in god creating the world in 7 days as much as you believe your thoughts aren't you. So the intention is the same, both believe by spreading this knowledge they may help someone. But I also think there's something else to it, like the ego is trying to convince itself of this belief, it feels strangely good when your idea is validated by someone else, by teaching others esp when not being enlightened yourself, is it just a way to seek validation for your ego? On the other hand, we are always drawn to teach and pass on our knowledge and experiences, essentially this is how evolution of ideas happens. But what I noticed is that when I first started getting in to this stuff I couldn't wait to tell and teach as many people as I could, as my 'journey' has gone on I found its not really important convincing anyone (esp when they don't want to be), but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get your knowledge out there, it's just once it's out let it go, don't look for validation from it. Also if you did want to convince someone the best way is for you to be that example. Think about it how many opinions of people trying to convince of one thing or another do you hear everyday? If I have no experience of thing someone's talking about then I usually shut off to it. Same with when they hear about this stuff. You go out and live the best, most aware and conscious life you can, when you do that people will ask you what your secret is and then you tell them, to you it doesn't matter if they ask or not

That's why you should just take enlightenment as a goal off the table and just be as present and as conscious as you can. If you think you're enlightened or nearly enlightened you're probably not. So just make try and be who you are moment to moment, most 'masters' say once you stop looking you become enlightened. One criticism I have of Leo, although he does kind of address it, is he presents enlightenment luke it's some goal like completing a college course and once there you're sorted, but I don't believe it works like that. Technically everyone is already an enlightened being it's just we've been convinced were not so we just have to realise what we really are again

This is an issue I have at the moment as well. Essentially you're single you want to have sex regularly but if you do it without getting in a relationship you feel like a dick because whoever you do it with you know you don't want a relationship with them. So in that way it's not really fulfilling, so do you wait until a good relationship comes along, could take a while, do you just have a few girls you kind of like that you can call upon when needed? I find it quite difficult I e hone down the route of getting with girls I knew I didn't want a relationship with and it leaves a bad taste, also they get hurt or pissed off with you, I don't want to leave that kind of negativity. So I don't know the best thing to do, anyone got any ideas?

I agree, I don't really like the way it's used because it puts an end goal in your mind and really true enlightenment is all about the present. Once you say I want enlightenment you're putting in a desire to be enlightened, so you can't be desire less which is one of the attributes of being enlightened. As humans we tend to think in a linear way as in, once this happens then this will happen then I'll be at the end. The point of this spiritual stuff is that there is no end or beginning there only is what there is which is now. All else is a concept therefore enlightenment in the future is just an idea, to really get to it you'd have to give up on it and just experience what is

@Newpaz Very valid and interesting question (I don't really have an answer but just adding some thoughts). This may seem out there but there does seem to be a force, or it may even be our own egos, that supress these teachings that you mentioned. If you think about it most enlightened people that have talked about it publicly and have gained big followings have usually been killed. In fact even just having liberal views and power is enough to get you killed. So I wouldn't say it's far fetched to say that the past and present systems (the powers that be) don't really want us to know about this stuff. Which from their point of view makes sense as their aims are profit and power which would be at risk if everyone trusted themselves and just did what they want. It would make sense to just brainwash people so they become 'productive members of society'. Now when you think about it this has gone on for 100s of years, previously religion was used to control and still is to a lesser extent, now it's more money and society defined success. In both cases fear of lack plays a big part. So the point is we are all brought up in a way where 'enlightenment' or the path of true religion are very alien concepts and in fact get in the way of what we've been led to believe will bring us joy (money etc). So to say to someone after they've been brought up in this mindset that it's all meaningless, is to say everything you've been taught and even you yourself are a lie. It's very hard for the ego to take that on board. So ultimately I think enlightenment (I don't really like using the word) is the only way, it's just a matter of how long it takes for life's distractions to no longer have an effect or for your suffering to get really bad in which case you'll be forced to the spiritual side of things

@charlie2dogs Right I agree but if that's the case then the people in the public forum are just not 'ready' to get it so in that case all you can do is put the knowledge out there and when they are ready hopefully they'll come to it. When I first started getting in to eckhart tolle it really blew me away, he was one of the the first spiritual speakers I got into, so much so that I bought about 5 copies of the book and gave it to people I thought would be interested in it. Out of the 5 I know only 1 of them has read it, but for the others I know the knowledge is there for them when they need it and hopefully at some point they will pick it up and at that point they're mind will be open to understanding it. The other thing is you have to be the example to them to the point where people ask you, 'why do you seem so content or happy or comfortable with yourself', then you are ready to teach

A lot of the gurus I listen to Mooji, sadhguru etc I always get the feeling that they want to just unleash the full force of their wisdom but they always hold back so the person understands. It's quite funny cos I imagine they're thinking 'just get it!!'. The thing is the ultimate thing to understand is just acceptance and so the actual words are very simple but it feels like it almost needs to get complicated for people to understand it, because they can't accept that it would be that easy. So regardless of the words used it has to make sense to who you're saying it to otherwise what's the point, that doesn't mean that the person shouldn't do a bit of work to get to understand it.

I think the paradox is really what you've been taught to believe will make you happy (money, family, material stuff) conflicting with what deep down you know will make you happy. In society were taught from a young age that material stuff or a family, job whatever, should be our main goal. Luckily for the government this ties up with what they want, people spending money and not making much fuss. I do see it as brainwashing and if you look at the films you watch, what your taught in school, what your parents tell you, everything is geared toward making you think that this is the right path, which is weird because why do they care so much about getting you on that path? So without a choice these ideas get imprinted on you, even if you think different you may think you're strange for doing so and want to be like everyone else. But when you finally realise 'wait I don't really need any of these things', then your eyes are starting to open. The only trouble is you've essentially been brainwashed so your paradox is really the conflict between that and getting to your real core, it's really hard to do, but once you've seen over the fence you can't go back

Accept the ego fully and accept that you can't kill it. The idea of killing it is an ego idea as you think it will create a 'better you'

I think a couple things may help you, one is that you can't really focus on the result, it's an ongoing process that never ends really, try and focus on just being present and conscious moment to moment, as soon as you focus on the result you're only using the present moment as a means to an end and therefore missing out on life. If you think about its no different to saying I'll be ok once I'm rich, it's just a different obstacle you've put in your way 'I'll be ok once I'm enlightened', it's the same thing, what you should try and do (try a weirs word) is remove obstacles or see that it's you putting them up. Second is that you can't get rid of the ego it's there, you're constantly going to get thoughts in your head that you didn't put there, when you try and fight them you're resisting the present moment, which again takes you away from being. These thoughts are a happening and there's nothing you can actually do about them, what is important is your reaction to them. You can either fully accept that they're or you can get worked up and fight them because you think you can some how get rid of them. It's more about transcending the ego which is realising you aren't it but be aware that at least at first, it will still make the same noise it always has

@abrakamowse I get where you're coming from, but again you really have to look for where the fear is. You're actually lucky in that you know what you want to do or what field will make you happy, so thats definitely a positive, but then you feel like theres something holding you back. You would say its money consciously but look into yourself and see if theres a fear of actually going full on into what you want to do. I would say whats stopping you is you're energy and intention being pulled in different ways, so instead of putting 100% into the art you're thinking 'I can't advance in my dream job because of my regular job' and then you're also worrying about changing your mindset. The only way to really make headway (and its not an easy path) is to go full force into what you want to do. That might mean putting aside a few hours a day to work on it, or even working less hours at your job, but in reality its the only way things will change for you. If you think of yourself as a computer you're currently using a lot of ram on tasks that you don't need to when you should be using as much as possible on what you were built for, if you don't then whats the point?

I haven't quit TV completely yet, but I am def considering it. Just wanted to ask what are some of the things people do instead? I read but I can't spend that long doing it, sometimes if my energy is low I just want to chill and watch tv, so what do you do in these instances?

I think it comes down to your intentions, for example when you think about money is it coming from a worried fearful place as in 'I haven't got enough money' or 'if only I had enough money', as you're worrying about it I'm guessing this is close. If this is the case then this is a scarcity mindset. If you think about the law of attraction, which you've mentioned what they're talking about is an abundance mentality, which is basically telling your body you've already experienced whatever you're trying to experience (check out joe dispenza on YouTube, very interesting!), and then the experience eventually manifests, this can also be seen when athletes visualise success. So what you may be doing is thinking visualising your lack of money, or dwelling on the fact that you haven't got money, now your body is going to react the same way it does if you visualise success and manifest whatever you think, ie lack. Going back to the athlete example if a 100m runner were to think 'I don't want to lose' that has a very different affect to 'I'm going to take it to my limit and run the best race I can'. Also ask yourself do I really want to make money, not in a negative way but what is the core of your intention, as in what do you want the money for? In this case you can bypass the money and get to what you actually want. For example you could say I want a better quality of life, maybe a better life for you is actually moving to Thailand where it's cheap and you'd enjoy it more, you don't necessarily need money for it. So look at the why of the money, because just wanting money is like saying I want energy, well what will you use the energy for once you get it?

Shiny happy people by REM is actually about depression and meds. Good points about lyrics getting into your psyche, I would say it's all about your awareness. When I was young I would look for an identity in some music, which most teenagers do, obviously if this is the case it can affect you a lot. It's all about detachment from it and seeing it as entertainment

Ok first of all let me recommend a book if I can 'towards a psychology of being' by maslow, he literally looks at the psychology behind 'great' people and looks at what makes them great. One of the themes is whether your looking for self improvement coming from a deficient mind set which is basically you feel you're incomplete and you're trying to become complete, or if you have a growth mindset which means you feel you are complete already and anything you do is growing you as a person. But a big factor is being able to do whatever your doing not as a means to get somewhere else but because it's something you like to do, so being is an end in itself rather than a means to an end. So basically enjoy the process rather than being results focused will actually cuter intuitively get you better results. Taking your 'I'm ugly' example, yes you're right if you've been convinced you're ugly and you also buy into your thoughts then this will affect you, but really this is a learnt behavior. Any opinion like this I'm ugly, intelligent, confident, dumb whatever, has to be measured by what you think you 'should be', which you've mentioned in your post when you've said you know people like... So its not that someone is objectively 'ugly' but dependent on society projection of beauty and your comparison to that they could be labelled as ugly, but this is an ever changing definition. So its not about trying to convince yourself you're not ugly, it's about seeing and loving yourself without putting labels on what you 'should be'. If you grew up outside of society in a forest, you would have no negative beliefs because there wouldn't be a comparison. So they're not true. What you're suggesting is that you fight your beliefs, how would you go about doing that? Do you ignore them? Do you argue with them? Has that worked in your experience? You answered your own question with people that are in tune with themselves, being in tune with yourself would imply that there is peace and no internal conflict, to get to that state you would have to fully accept yourself. The thing is when you do accept yourself and stop fighting, you save a crazy amount of energy but also you can focus all that energy I'm one direction which really can give you the power to be 'great'. But another thing you should ask yourself is why exactly do you want to be 'great '? Is it because you don't think you're enough? (deficiency mindset), is it to prove to other people? Get down to the route of it If you can. Bit of a ramble but hope it helps

No probs. Transform is probably the wrong word to use because it's the idea that at some point in the future I'll completely change who I am, the fact is you'll always be you and as such to be the best you, you have to fully embrace every aspect. I get what you're saying about beliefs, but, (and this is just my personal experience), you need beliefs really just to tell you to completely trust in your true self. So you don't need to add things on, that's what usually happens, you think once I change my mind set or once I do this or that then I'll be ok, really all this does is set your salvation away from the present moment. Ultimately what you need to do is let go of all these beliefs and stop trying to be great and just be, your natural self is great but your ego gets in the way thinking it needs to do stuff to be great. Think about meditation, that is literally the practice of letting go and letting your mind be. Eventually if you can bring that state of mind into your normal life you'll be your true self all the time. But acceptance is also accepting your limiting beliefs and realising that they aren't you and don't have power of you, they're just like old programs running on a computer, you don't need to use them but they're there so just accept them. The only reason why these beliefs have an effect on you is because you don't let them be you try and actively get rid of them which makes them more powerful. Say to yourself there's nothing I can do about them so no point in trying and just leave them be, eventually they will diminish and fade away

There's another idea that all time is simultaneous, so if you think there is no time in terms of past or future, there is just one thing happening all at once. If you think about it the only thing that makes time relevant is our conciousness, without time wouldn't exist. There was nothing and then there was you all of a sudden, now because of your consciousness you have an experience of time

Yeah its really about learning to love and fully accept the side of you that you don't like. I used to have long bouts of anxiety and inner conflict when I was younger and then occasionally I'd get periods of time, randomly, where I'd just feel great like how you explained in your post. I didn't do anything to get there but it'd always fade whether it took days or weeks, I could never hold on to it. What I've realised now is, although it felt great I'm that state I never faced the fear of what I hated about myself and never truly accepted it as part of me. So my inner conflict was trying to 'get rid' of it or stop the thoughts. This is completely impossible, doesn't matter how much you try, in fact the more you try the more of an issue it becomes. So what really works is full acceptance of any thoughts, feelings, whatever happens in your body and mind. But also be aware you are not your thoughts and if you let them be they will just float by, but if you hold on and analyse why you're having this or that thought they will affect you.

Welcome and good luck bro. A lot of what you're talking about is a shift in mindset, but you've taken the first step which is to be aware of what your specific issues are. Just as a quick tip I don't think you should try and make big sweeping changes but instead just make small changes everyday, try and improve yourself by 1% everyday. If it's meditation, start off doing 5 mins a day then build it up, things like that.

@Neill BoltonLol what is natto??