Consept

I think its really a case of training yourself to not buy completely into one type of thinking or set of ideas. A lot of the time people go into different modes of thinking and by doing that disregard everything ekse because they've found the 'truth'. If you can be independent of this method and be able to read anything and seperate the benefits from the dogma then i think that is a fantastic way to grow. It's like if you want to get fit they'll be loads of diets and work out plans that people will want you to buy into because they're the answer to all your problems, but if you can pick and chose the parts that work for you that would make more sense than just following one blindly

OK yeah that makes sense, I wasnt really sure what the op meant but reading the other comments it's a bit more clearer. So awareness is limitless as it is everything, as a human it's like we are drop of awareness out of a vast ocean. Or think of it like this we are a bit of water from the ocean put into a glass, we take the form of the glass and view the world from this glass but we are eternally always part of the ocean. The view that we're separate is an illusion as we think we are the glasses and in most cases we are not even aware of the water

Thanks for sharing, but does seem a bit weird paying to meditate and also I think a big part of the meditation is learning how to sit quietly yourself, this seems like even if it works it would become a crutch. Just my opinion but if it works for you then cool

@philosogi Very true, I hadn't thought of that, but yes it makes sense that our ego would include them in its identity, probably more so with them seeing us as part of their ego, which would account for why they always want us to follow a certain path which will reflect well on them. Once both sides take ego out of it and just appreciate the other then real progress can be made instead of trying to change the other we see fit

What's interesting, just reading these responses, is that everyone has an issue with their mother and/or father (I include myself in this). So the impact they have is so great and I think what it comes down to is our dissapointment in them. At one point they almost seemed superhuman so to see them just as normal or even worse unhappy, neurotic etc is quite hard to take, but I think it's really a test for us to accept them as they are, obviously if they show signs of wanting change then help them. But bottom line is you absolutely can't help anyone that doesn't want help, it almost seems illogical if you're on a path because why would someone choose pain when there is an alternative? But it is what it is

I think what has happened is romanticism has taken over, this started in a period about 150 years ago, which was the foundation of what we call 'love' today. So because we're fed things like 'you need to find the one', 'other half' 'soul mate' etc etc, once this is bought into you will feel a defciancy if you dot have this, truth is this doesn't really exist in this form, so the aspiration is flawed from the start. A lot of people when in relationships constantly question whether this person is the 'one', this type of thinking sabother relationships because the expectation is so high. This is not to say 'love' doesn't exist but for you to have any chance you'd first have to drop all these assumptions and expecations, which difficult as we've been brought up with this.

Hey man, sorry about this confusion you're going through but trust me it will get better just from the fact you're trying to do something. I think your issue is a couple things - one is that your completely focused on results, most of your worries seem to be worrying about whether you'll make it, whether you'll be a success etc, the fact is you don't know and can never really know the answet to that, what you should try to do is enjoy whatever it is you're doing now. The reas on why you want to pick something you enjoy is so you enjoy it regardless of what the outcome is. If you have this mindset then you'll truly be able to create something. Second you're looking for definite answers to everything, there are no definite answers! You could get everything you want and then lose it the next day, this is life. Once you accept that you can never know what will happen next you get a certain freedom. Think of a butterfly, it just floats around, never knowing where it's going but some how gets everything it needs to survive or it doesn't, either way it doesn't worry about it. Anyway good luck man, also you're young you probably won't have everything figured out yet and that's fine accept that

Summed it up quite well there. No free will doesn't make sense if you're identified as a separate ego and free will doesn't make sense if you realise ego is an illusion

@JustinS If the witnesser of thoughts had thoughts, who is then witnessing the thoughts of the witnesser?

I'm reading a book in which the Dalai Lama shares his thoughts on a range of topics, I thought this passage might be useful to some- "It's important to make a clear distinction in your mind between your ideals and the standards by which you judge your progress. As a Buddhist, for instance, you set your ideals very high: full Enlightenment is your ultimate expectation. Holding full Enlightenment as your ideal of achievement is not an extreme. But expecting to achieve it quickly, here and now, becomes an extreme. Using that as a standard instead of your ideal causes you to become discouraged and completely lose hope when you don't quickly achieve Enlightenment. So you need a realistic approach. On the other hand, if you say, ‘I'm just going to focus on the here and now; that's the practical thing, and I don't care about the future or the ultimate attainment of Buddha-hood,’ then again, that is another extreme. So we need to find an approach that is somewhere in between. We need to find a balance."

If they work for people that's good but personally I've not really liked them. It kind of feels like coming from a baseline of lack, so if you say 'I'm great' over and over then the initial assumption is you aren't great. For any kind of thinking like that to work you really have to believe whatever it is deep down, not do affirmations as a way to make up for that lack of belief. I think having a general positive outlook is good as in seeing the positive side of things rather than the negative, that's a choice that we make. If you think negative or worry a lot then affirmations are a good alternative to that as thinking negative is just doing negative affirmations

Yeah look everyone will most likely think you're crazy for doing it and talking about it. Its the same as if someone close to you said they've joined a particular religion and then start telling you how it will save your life, exactly the same thing. The urge is always there when you find something that resonates with you to pass it on, one to validate your new ideas and two because you think it might help people. But everyone is on their own journey and if you come to at someone with something outside of their current understanding, they just won't get it. Best thing just be with them in the moment, use it as a practice

Personally I can't see how there is free will. When a thought pops up, when did you decide to have that thought pop up? Similarly when you 'decide' to watch your thoughts what was the pre-cursor to that, did you decide to think of watching your thoughts? At some point if you look at the origin of your thought, youll see you didn't 'do' it, although it does feel like that.

Hey man, thanks for sharing. I think a big thing is just being aware of what you're doing as much as possible. You shouldnt just assume something is bad, you should try and just non-judgementally witness everything, if you can do this you'll soon work out what to drop and just do it as a matter of course. A lot of the time with addictions you do it to become unconcious so the best antidote is to remain concious. Personally my habits are definitely food, although I've cut out a lot of stuff, but I do get sugar craving's, sometimes fruit doesn't cut it. Also I used to get ocd thoughts where I literally can't stop thinking about a subject I don't want to think about. I still get them but I'm more aware of what they are rather than thinking my thoughts are me. Its tough but that really is the goal just build up that awareness

-worrying about traps

Yep High Wycombe originally from south London

No one has said that they're enlightened, I think the point of the forum is just to share experiences and learn where you can. Obviously take what everyone says with a pinch of salt not just on here but on YouTube or wherever, it's always gotta to come from you ultimately. Genreally I don't come on this forum that much just because it can take away from your own journey and like you say you can get caught up in ego battles and opunions etc but at the same time it is what it is people are learning, so I would say try not to get to frustrated with it, it's just a tool or outlet. Its so not about trying to have the better insight by calling out other's egos, that's another ego game. Anyway good luck on your journey

Haha its pretty much always gonna be the case with these questions, we're all trying to explain something that exists solely as an experiential phoneme nom. Basically all thoughts are not you and bullshit, but i always get caught up in them even though I know that, thats why practicing awareness is the most important thing

Just throwing this idea in there, but what would be the difference if it was a placebo effect or not? If you had cancer and took a sugar pill that cured your cancer because you believed it would are you going to be annoyed because you only took a sugar pill instead something else that for whatever reason you believed in more? Truth is meditation lets you take a step back from your thoughts and step into your own being, so once you know yourself through that being you'll see first hand whats true. Also theres a lot of studies saying that meditation does help in other ways so its not a waste of time either way

@cetus56 Yeah best way to be honest, it literally can't be explained with words lol, and even saying that will confuse people even more. I think the lower\higher self is a decent metaphor and easy to imagine

@Ayla Lower/higher self is a concept, just like anything that can be described. But its designed like anything to attempt to understand something that on a mind level is not understandable. As long as you realise its not reality and just a metaphor, do you think it has value in that form?

I think all humans in general have a thing in them where they want to teach others. With regard to self development for the person you're trying to introduce it to its not really distinguished from say a religious person or a political person or just someone who lives hedonistically. Everyone has an idea of life that they think works for them and because of that they want to pass it on, because they either want to help other people experience this 'truth' that they've found or they want to strengthen their own belief by having someone else validate it, these are the 2 things that draw everyone to want to spread knowledge. If you think about it a religious person honestly believes that religion will help people as much as you believe self development will help people. The fact is people have to be at a certain stage to really want to take on a new method of thinking, basically they have to just really want to grow and get the most out of life, or their life situation has become so bad that whatever direction they take can't be worse than whats happening now. This is why a lot of people get caught up in cults. If someone wants help or knowledge they will seek it. From personal experience I felt the same way when i first started getting into consciousness and self development, I told everyone i cared about and thought they may be interested, about it, i bought the power of now for like 5 people, (as far as I know only one read it lol). The truth is regardless of how you package it and how passionate you get about it, very few will take it on and really practice, they may get it intellectually but to take it another step is really something they have to come to themselves. Really the best way to get your message across is to be the example yourself, if you're truthful you are trying to get people into it (as i was) without really being that far along the line yourself, as if it will progress you further if someone buys into you. So moral of the story just work on yourself and those that need and want help will find you. If i want to make money I'll seek out those that have made money already not those that are not that much better off than me but have this great system to make money.

@Kevin Dunlop I get where you're coming from, but just to put of debate in there, what is the purpose of any 'identity'? Once you realise that identity itself is an illusion why would you subscribe to having one. The way i see identity is for other people to have an understanding for the purposes, of what you are, so they can 'identify' you, which is to say distinguish you from others. But what is the purpose of you having an identity for yourself? We feel we need one because we've always had one thrust upon us and to greater or lesser extents been indoctrinated to an idea of ourselves. But we can never truly know what we are, so even if you had a really good learned identity it would still be illusion, and good is relative anyway, so it would be a learned identity that most fits with whatever you think you're supposed to be. Identities will almost always be full of contradictions as they go against are being and are not flexible, so really someone who is comfortable in their false identity can be seen as insane in a wider sense but in a society sense completely sane. If you are 'dysfunctional' it opens your eyes to illusion so in most cases is necessary for growth. To me there is one state of being we should all be aiming for and that is simply being, in which case your natural self emerges, identity is like a mask we wear over our being

Theres the you which is awareness, then theres everything you think you are. You are not whatever you think you are its just you believe you are, which gives rise to what you might call the ego. So your ego is not really good or bad its just whatever attributes you ascribe to it but none of it is you. Logically it can't be you as you're aware of it, therefore you are the awareness

I think the point with Walter is that he has no self-governance so he over compensates in terms of acquiring material gain at whatever the cost maybe. Basically he's operating from a place of lack rather than abundance. Whats interesting about the show is that it plays with this so (if you haven't watched it prob best not to read this) at the begining it seems like he's actually thrown off all the shackles that he felt trapped by and achieved a certain peace because he's about to die, so the viewer stays with him on this because it feels like he's become his true self and has a purpose that he's fulfilling i.e. making sure his family is fine when he goes. But then we realise he's just always regretted his life and always wanted to be the best at something, important etc, which is coming at it from lack, in which case enough is never enough which leads him to his inevitable destruction. But very clever how this side of him is hidden. So in terms of self governance it definitely starts from within, so if you can be ok with who you are regardless of your situation, that sets a strong foundation for self governance. Practically its just about belief and action, in terms of making money for yourself