Consept

Lol no problem, well with all pure O (no or limited external compulsions) themes its something the person fears because they dont feel its them but they cant distinguish between just a thought and them if that makes sense. So for example most people will have a thought of that person of the same sex is attractive and not really think further than that, but with the ocd person it might trigger them and then they see the thought as making them uncertain of something they thought they knew about themselves, so they cant rest until they find out for certain whether theyre gay or not which of course you can never be certain of. Then it leads to compulsions like asking people if they think youre gay or researching or even watching gay porn to see if you get aroused. So as for a reason for me i had ocd and it was seen as a really bad thing to be gay where im from so any thought i had that was even a little bit questioning my sexuality created anxiety for me. Thats really the difference is that gay thoughts will cause someone with hocd anxiety rather than pleasure. I never really saw anything with being gay but ive had much weirder themes in the past, ocd is really a messy condition, i still have anxiety and the thoughts come up but its not as powerful as i understand it a lot better

Not exactly the same but ive had ocd since i was young and also the theme of homosexual ocd (hocd). I've also talked to other people with ocd and how op sounds is exactly like them, i maybe wrong though

The issue isnt whether wanting to change your internal feelings is not normal, its more that its not really possible. Pedophiles are a good example because if any person would want to change how they feel inside it would be pedophiles but yet how many pedophiles do you hear of being 'cured'? The treatment of pedophiles as i understand it, is to accept that they feel like that and learn how to not act on it, in a lot of cases this is not possible which is why some have to be locked away as it could be a big risk for society. Even they though they know they will get persecuted, arrested, hated by society, there is nothing they can do to change how they are internally it is what it is. In your case, you believe you will be hated by your society which is what youre worried about but regardless of what you do ie hide it, masturbate to gay porn in secret, whatever, you can not change who you are fundamentally if you are indeed gay. Its not the same as pedophiles as its not illegal to be gay, pedophiles would love for their thing not to be illegal but obviously that would never work. What people on the forum are saying is that yes, you can do gay conversion therapy or whatever but ultimately you wont be able to change if you are gay, you maybe able to pretend and not act on it but youd still be a gay person not acting on it. I have a strong suspicion this is ocd behavior even in the questions youre asking but i realise you dont see it that way

You're getting it mixed up I feel. Using your example of a man who wants to be a woman, the man deep down feels like they are a woman and so wants their external appearance to match what they feel internally and so they change. What you're saying is that internally you feel that your gay and you want to change how you feel internally rather than externally. Do you see how this is pretty much impossible? It's like saying I feel like a human internally but I don't want to feel that so how can I change it? Or like I like ice cream but my society forbids it how can I not like ice cream? Well you can't you'll always like ice cream you can just stop yourself eating it, kind of

Bro, last comment I make on this but this is 100% hocd. You have said you actually have ocd which makes you worry, get reassurance, ruminate about things that are not true. A thought has triggered you and now you can't stop thinking about it until you get some certainty, you are trying to solve a thought, is any of this familiar to you? If you talked to anyone who knew about ocd they would 100% tell you that you this was an ocd worry as others literally have on this thread. Either way the treatment for this is acceptance, if you are gay which you're not, you'd accept that, if you're not gay you have to accept the possibility that you might be gay. Please really consider what I'm saying, I don't know why you're so resistant to this possibility considering you actually have ocd, it's very strange. I'm trying to save you a lot of time praying the gay away or whatever you'll inevitably end up trying to do

OK so youve had ocd since childhood, if you dont mind me asking, what were the themes of the other OCD thoughts youve had in the past? and if i asked you whether they were real at the time would you have said yes?

@Buba Right but you do know that people with ocd are convinced that they are let's say in this case gay, they are looking for reasons why they might be gay constantly. As I understand it if you were actually gay you'd more worry about coming out to your family and friends and whether you'd be accepted in society, the worry isn't actually if you're gay or not. Let me ask you this, have you ever been really worried about something before? Something that was just on your mind constantly and you couldn't shift it no matter what you did?

@Buba you seem pretty convinced that the psychoanalyst is correct, I don't know how you feel so if you honestly feel gay and you answered all those questions I posted in the negative then you really should just accept you are gay and get on with it. Personally I'm not convinced you are but either way it's gonna be a journey for you, so good luck with it

I agree, science is definitely useful, I was just pointing out the limitations. But you do need every outlook to get to some kind of truth

@Buba like someone said earlier I really think you should consider that it might be homosexual ocd, I have suffered with this on and off although its improved a lot. I'm a little concerned that the answers you're getting here, although well meaning, could actually make you worse, if it is ocd that is. Ultimately the solution is acceptance, you accept the possibility that you could be gay and either that's true or you realise it's just your mind. I've pulled up some questions online that attempt to work out whether it might be ocd or not, please read through and answer, either on here or to yourself. If it is ocd note that when you have that it feels really real and you want to get reassurance, as in you want to 'sort out' the problem or have certainty about it, this is all part of the condition, everything must be accepted - 1) Do you constantly worry or fear an unwanted change in your sexual orientation? For instance: Fearing that you will become gay when you are straight. 2) Do you worry that you are attracted to members of the same sex, such as strangers, friends, or celebrities, when you currently identify as heterosexual? And vice versa for those who identify as homosexual. 3) Do you worry that you are NOT attracted to members of the opposite sex (if you’re straight) and that ‘that might mean’ that you are gay? And vice versa for those who identify as homosexual. 4) Do you worry that others may think you are the opposite sexual orientation from which you identify? For example: A straight man thinking “If my legs are crossed, do my guy friends think I’m gay?” 5) Have you ever checked your genitals for arousal after seeing someone of the same sex? And vice versa for those who identify as homosexual. For example: After viewing an arousing scene on TV, you worry that you were aroused by a character of the same sex even though you identify as straight. Or, you worry that you were not attracted ‘enough’ to a character of the opposite sex, even though you identify as straight. 6) Have you looked at same sex pornography and worried about if you were aroused? Or have you viewed opposite sex pornography and worried that you were not attracted/aroused enough? 7) Do you avoid watching TV or movies that contain homosexual characters? And vice versa for those who identify as homosexual. 8) Do you worry that you have hidden same sex desires that you just haven’t acted upon yet? And vice versa for those who identify as homosexual. 9) Do you search the internet for answers about your sexuality? For Example, Googling “How do I know if I’m gay?” Have you read sexuality blogs online to find evidence of whether you may be gay? Or have you read coming out stories looking for answers and/or reassurance of your sexual orientation. 10) Do you avoid sexual encounters because you worry that you may have a thought about a member of the same sex? And vice versa for those who identify as homosexual. 11) Do you avoid sexual encounters out of a fear that you won’t be able perform? For Example: Worrying that if you can’t get aroused by a woman that it might be evidence that you are gay? 12) Have you asked others for reassurance about your sexuality? For instance, constantly asking your friends if they think you’re gay when you’re straight. *This checklist is not intended to serve as a replacement for a diagnosis by a qualified licensed psychologist

@RevoCulture I haven't read it but I can agree with us knowing only 4% of the universe, its probably less than that tbh. One of the issues with science is that it by definition has to have an observer of an event who would then write down or quantify what's being observed. For the person who reads what they've done it's a second hand observation it's not direct experience. So for example if I investigate an apple and let's say you've never tasted an apple before, I could write a book on the moisture of it, I could tell you there's however many millions of atoms in it and they vibrate at a certain speed, I could say there's acids and proteins and whatever else in it. Now I still haven't tasted the apple myself and you haven't you just know the science of it from me, so can we say we really 'know' the apple? If either of us taste it we then have direct experience of it, because its no longer in concepts. I think this is the same as with life we learn the mechanics of it we but we don't really live the direct experience of it

It could be ocd, where you worry about being gay mainly because you're not. It also goes for gay people who worry they're straight. You'd need to read up on it to see if it fits you. Do you actually enjoy the feeling of being attracted to men or does it cause anxiety?

A question just to throw in, what decision have you made that has not been preceded in some way by something out of your control? The fact that your birth was out of your control is a bit of an easy one, you could say any decision after your birth came about because of your birth which was nothing to do with you. But delving deeper, your upbringing was not your choice but we know that has a major impact, your culture and yes your brain, at what point is it free will? What even has free will, your idea of who you are?

Well the question would be what are you 100% sure you know and why are you 100% sure about that? If any doubt exists then you can not claim to know anything

Yeah I agree, these responses are pretty much useless and just serve to elevate the poster to some sort of enlightened guru status and if you don't get it you're just not there yet poor soul. They have no real value for the poster. Even if the zen quipper is enlightened he's not speaking to people on their level which makes it pointless

I haven't got any children and am on the fence about whether I will or not. But I think if anyone has children it has to be a completely altruistic endeavour, I know it rarely is but you have to just not expect anything back at all, there's no guarantee they will look after you, there's no guarantee they will give you the love that you seek. If you haven't got this mindset I think you'll run into problems. Why I might consider having children is that I would want to teach them all I know and make them understand life in a completely different way. When you learn anything useful it should always be in your mind to pass it down and yes you can pass it down to anyone but I think there is something about the bond you have with someone that close to you. Also consider conscious people need to have kids as well otherwise kids will be brought up unconsciously ad infinitum. Those are really the only reasons for me, but obviously reasons against us that if you're not self actualized, at least to a decent degree you can pass down a lot of disfunctions to your child. On top of that a child could hold up your growth as you are putting a lot of energy in to them. So I don't know man lol

The thing with content like this is that it depends on the receivers current level of consciousness. For example a knife is a great tool for cooking etc but in the wrong hands its a weapon used to inflict pain, its not the knifes fault either way. That being said Leo isn't an inanimate object so there is some responsibility on him to be aware of these situations happening which I believe he is and he does do disclaimers, but regardless some people with fall through cracks or be influenced negatively by his content. For me the net return makes it worth it in that he helps a lot more people than get hurt and ultimately that's what it comes down to, that's why we still have knives and they're not banned. I do agree with criticisms from others in that Leo speaks as if speaking from absolute truth, other gurus are trying to gently nudge you in the direction and if you can't understand it you're just not ready, whereas with Leo there's a sense that you're wrong and you need to take in what he's saying. I don't think this is the best way to go about and can lead to people blindly following an ideology. This is similar to people like Jordan Peterson and Ben shapiro who speaks in such a definite way that you either are against them or a die hard devotee. Obviously he's not as bad as that esp not content wise but it's just a manner of the way this content is spoken that can create this strong opinion. So just something to be aware of.

Just some thoughts on this - recently I've been really trying to accept all my thoughts and everything about me fully. I have quite an anxious mind so not always easy, but I have 2 paths one is continually trying to improve myself in the hope that 'i' no longer feel anxious or the second is that I just accept that the anxiety is there and realise that I am whole with or without it. If you think of someone you love, do you live them less because let's say they are anxious sometimes or do you accept and give them love regardless, maybe even more love if they need it? So just because the thoughts occur in my head and there's some sort of ownership of them why should there be no love, acceptance or understanding given to oneself? Truth is you are complete and whole what stops you from seeing this is unrealistic expectations of what that means, unrealistic meaning that you need to be something other than you currently are. The journey to becoming whole is a realisation and acceptance, so anything you do physically or whatever to achieve wholeness would mean you don't realise you're whole and you don't accept yourself as is, this is what leads to a feeling of not being whole. It's a complete mental maze that you need to opt out of

@LfcCharlie4 thanks man, really appreciate the advice, I'll have a look into it

1 on 1s sound interesting, how did you get in contact with yours and are there any you could recommend around London or southern England?

Thank you ? it's interesting how pick up can be a route to self actualization

I'm aware of him and have watched a few of his videos in the past esp when I was looking for a way to make money online. I don't mind him but he doesn't really resonate with me personally but I think some of his content can be useful. But here's the thing with all these YouTube teachers, everyone of them will have their own issues, their own negatives and even ulterior motives but the trick you and all of us have to learn is he to get the good useful content and leave the rest. Some teachers you can recognise they're just concerned about making money but some of their techniques can be useful, take what is and put it into something that you're trying to do. The problem is we take teachers wholesale and if they say something we dont like we throw everything out. Forget the teacher just worry about the content and that goes for everyone from Leo to Dan Lok to Eckart Tolle

Ultimately its all a roll of a dice, theres people that could do psychedelics all their life and not be fully realised. Awakening is a realisation that 'you' are not in control and ceding control to the bigger you, i actually got a first real insight by watching a psychology doc on the brain and it stated something like the conscious you just thinks its the star of the movie but its not at all and that really made me think. But i definitely take your earlier point, i think a lot of pain and despair can be chipped away but looking through the perspective psychedelics give you, i would advise anyone to do it myself at least once. But i dont think its a sure route to enlightenment i just think its a good tool that can help you along your way

It's true in a lot of cases with the popular masters but when you look at someone like Paul Hedderman he was not spiritually gifted, he did every drug under the sun and came to a realisation during the depths of despair. Similar with Eckart he was just about to commit suicide from depression and came to a realisation, so in these instances extreme mental anguish made them see clearly but previously no spiritual gifts necessarily. So I don't think it's a fact that seem people just get it from birth and everyone else has to crawl with meditation or take psychedelics, I think if you can really see the futility of your efforts to become enlightened and essentially realise what you are you will get there, it's just maybe pain needs to be the fuel to get you there.

I agree with you in that the psychedelic can crack the current perspective, I know this from personal experience trying mushrooms for the first time when I wasn't really into spiritual topics, once I had that experience there was no going back and I learnt a lot after the fact. But it's not necessarily going to stabilise you into that so it's not a direct route which I guess you did agree with. My point was though, that I've never really heard of someone getting enlightened even mentioning psychedelics as a big factor in it, in fact ive heard a lot of people not even that into spirituality or non dual topics that take psychedelics regularly but are not concerned with enlightenment. So I'm just questioning whether apart from maybe initial insight into something else are psychedelics really fast forwarding people to enlightenment? I'm more than willing to be proven wrong on this I just haven't seen it personally. Potentially the fact that people are chasing enlightenment through anything, in this case psychedelics, could actually slow down your enlightenment until you get past that crutch.