Consept

Theres so many issues with unregulated free speech, people could use a platform to condone rape, to condone pedophillia for example, people could start anarchy. In an ideal world we'd all be able to regulate ourselves and all be responsible but thats just not the case at the moment. If you look at it most speech is allowed now, but to say it should be 100% unregulated I just cant see how thats workable, youd have to show me how that model would work as we are now.

Lets say they do and are still attacked regularly, what then?

Well whats your solution for someone who says for example we should hate and try and attack Jews in a compelling way?

Theres no objective measure but you could only measure Europe and America say in relative terms. So North Korea would be an example of extreme restriction, China maybe quite oppressive restriction but not as bad as North Korea, Russia quite bad but not as bad as China and so on. So its basically a spectrum of the available free speech modalities we have at the moment, the worst of which is complete censorship and only pro leadership speech is allowed. So to say we've gone too far i dont think thats accurate as evidently it could be a lot worse. What we have really is the problems with unlimited free speech and the platforms to provide that free speech. The new technology has allowed anyone from anywhere to get millions of viewers for whatever they want to say, before this mainstream had a lock on media so it was never really a problem. I mean you wouldve been free to make an independent film or write a book or whatever but it wouldve been harder to get onto the same level as mainstream. So its a positive direction that we've moved in regards to free speech and not only free speech but platforms to get out to millions. But within that comes issues with how thats regulated. In my opinion thats the issue that we're dealing with rather than a fight for free speech itself.

Maybe, but then this irresponsible use of free speech is an argument for why there should be some restrictions

Heres the problem you have though. Can speech be dangerous? Yes, youve identified a couple ways. Should there be some restriction? Yes, youve also agreed. So as you say the problem is who decides, I agree in that youtube shouldnt decide, so if we ourselves are to decide which is fine there has to be a certain responsibility in that, there has to be every effort to make sure you are presenting the information in a fair way especially if youre claiming truth and claiming impartiality , of course an opinion is an opinion, but generally you should try your best to take responsibility for your speech. This means not shouting fire and not saying things that could incite violence or cause dangerous things to happen, i think generally if you keep away from these you should be able to say whatever you want. So with Rose you have a situation where everyone is scared because of this pandemic, he knows that if he has certain people on theyll get a lot of views and say controversial things. I would say some of the things that have been said by Buttar and Icke are a kin to shouting 'fire'. But even if you dont agree that what they say is dangerous Rose is not using his freedom of speech responsibly, theres no questioning of many of their points, theres no counter position and it is being presented as fact. Further to that Rose is deleting comments that are not supportive of London Real which is contradictory to his fight for free speech. Ive also seen him pull a video that gave a bad review of his courses a couple of years ago. So if this 'freedom platform' is setup it means no one can criticise it on the platform so how the hell is that providing freedom of speech? its just replacing youtube as the decider for Rose. Whats even worse is that Rose doesnt seem to give too many opinions on Ickes content, so its not like he really believes what Icke is saying, hes more focused on the results its bringing. Which then leads to taking over £1m in donations from his followers. I mean that coupled with the ridiculous amount of people claiming they were scammed with his courses over the last few years, would lead you to believe that he is definitely capable of something like this. The only question be was this some premeditated plan or did he just fall into this unconsciously

Yeah its a tough one in terms of implementation. Maybe there should be a real strategy on how to redress the balance, tech companies pay next to nothing in tax for example. Should also note the conservatives in the UK gave a lot of tax breaks to rich people to incentivise them to come to the uk, this is trickle down economics, the idea that the wealthy will supply jobs and make everyone else better off, but this has not been the case at all. There are many problems in the western economy mostly with favouring the rich over the poor and these need to be changed, im sure if they are they could probably even afford ubi off of the extra money they get. One thing that makes sense about ubi is that if you have it you no longer need state pensions, benefits or all the costs around that system. So really its something worth looking into, but it wont be a simple task to get a system that works

@LfcCharlie4 Most complaints ive seen are in the last couple years but there a few from 4+ years ago as well. I have actually been following him loosely for a few years, same as you i liked a lot of the guests he had on, but I never really got into his own videos where hes giving advice, just didnt really resonate with him, although i liked the ayahuasca content he did. The podcast normally does provide value i cant say it doesnt. But we really have to hold people accountable and i love Sadhguru and Mooji but if they were doing something shady like this i would feel the same way, id be disappointed but id think they should still be called out. Otherwise you will get cults when someone cant be questioned. He is stage orange and like you said nothing wrong with that but when it becomes unhealthy it has to be looked at. Obviously theres only so much we can do here but I think its worthwhile having logical debate and at least building up awareness for ourselves and others on the forum. I couldnt dispute the points i brought up which is why i brought them up in case someone had an explanation for them. But respect to you for keeping your mind open on this

@LfcCharlie4 I get what youre saying and like we've said before there are loads of issues with data protection, i sell on Amazon myself and yes it is obvious that they take private label seller items, similar to what supermarkets do when they copy brands, all of that isnt good, its a conflict of interest having a marketplace and also competing against sellers within that marketplace. But who we're talking about specifically is Brian Rose, all your arguments could be brought up whoever we're talking about to say 'well theres worse things going on'. Now why i think this is extra important is because the argument of who or what should be the authority on free speech is very, very important, as such if someone is acting in bad faith and trying to exploit the situation which is what is being claimed, then i think that is worth an honest discussion. You said you havent used his course, there are a lot of people who arent happy with it, ive posted links to them previously. I myself was considering doing his podcast course but i never got round to it, so im not against courses or him on principle, if i had seen the amount of negative feedback hes gotten because of it, i wouldnt have even considered it. Theres so many reddit threads devoted to it, so many reviews, its unusual to see that many honestly. Another thing thats concerning is that he deletes comments on his videos and hes even had bad reviews of london real pulled down, check this guys blog - https://yannwithayahuasca.com/2016/04/18/why-i-left-london-real-academy-against-my-will-review/ This seems very hypocritical to me and would imply its not about free speech at all or at least with the freedom platform he wants to be the authority on whats posted, so how is this a freedom platform? What hes saying his motives are do not correspond with his actions. If his motives were true then its a valid conversation to have and the idea of freedom of speech needs to be sorted out, but how hes going about it doesnt seem the best way, even if his motives were honest.

@remember I agree its hard to measure the sufficient amount of work thats required and how that correlates with how much you make. For example a multi-millionaire who makes money off clever investments with money left to him from his parents and works a 4 hour week, does he work harder than a nurse or a cleaner? Why is he more deserving? Being annoyed that lazy people dont work doesnt justify not putting through ubi because if someone doesnt want to work in the west, they wont, regardless of ubi or benefits or whatever. This number isnt that significant and i doubt those that are working will stop working because of ubi

Probably the basis of the teaching is to be in touch with feelings and feel your intuition more and all that but in practice, id say most people see it as a blocking of negative emotions. Whenever someone has brought it up to me thats how theyve explained it. So i think if youre coming into it not having seen any spiritual teachings before youre likely to take it this way, esp with things like the secret

@LfcCharlie4 @TrynaBeTurquoise Let me try and summarise your points for the sake of clarity - There are lots of good reviews therefore his course is not a scam (would need to see those) - He's put his reputation on the line talking to 'conspiracy people' this risk shows that hes legit - The claims put to him are all speculation - Other entities do similar or worse things than Rose such as the government, Gates, Soros etc therefore we shouldnt bother focusing on Rose - We should go through all of what mainstream do, facebook, media etc to work out whether they do things that we're not happy with - Youve done the online course yourself so you know its a good course and youve made money from doing it Is this a fair summary?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

@TrynaBeTurquoise Not to attack you and just to encourage healthy debate because i would very much like to here opposing views on this, but youre going to have to answer the points that have been raised otherwise its just i like him you dont, which is pointless. I agree with you that he created a platform that i myself subscribed to and i wished him the best through his journey, however now he seems to have turned a corner in my opinion, although you might have a differing point of view which id very much like to hear. So the points ive raised are as follows - - Explain your view on his shady history with his business practices, namely his courses which have received a lot of bad reviews with people claiming they were scammed (before any of this free speech stuff)- https://www.scamguard.com/londonrealtv/ - Explain your view on his pyramid crypto currency scheme, of which he used his platform to promote https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/fqmy2s/a_new_creepto_pyramid_scheme_targeting_british/ - Do you think someone with such a history is capable of this kind of deception that we're seeing now? (note im not asking if he did it) - Do you think creating a 'freedom platform' for £1m gained through donations, which is hosted on 3rd party hosting solutions is a realistic spend of that money? The other points are to create a blockchain currency which will probably be the pyramid thing - What do you think of the fact he kept raising how much money was needed depending on how much he was getting? - Do you think its right to promote someone like Buttar who has many malpractice lawsuits for taking advantage of cancer patients who later died by promising a cancer cure? And espouses false and misinformation - Do you think there is a possibility hes milking this situation a little bit as he will get more exposure and money? Now like i said i didnt really have a problem with him before and im all for free speech, so as much as you want to, id ask for you not to attack me and just answer the points directly so we can actually debate this issue

Im not saying isnt complicit in this, he definitely is, i just dont think hes the driving force. If you look at Roses history this definitely within his remit. Icke seems more happy about this god status and promotion hes being given by Rose. Either way my predication is that this is going to heavily backfire on Rose, the crowd will eventually turn against him when all his history comes up/when he takes things too far or asks for too much. Theres a lot of people out there that seem to not like him for legitimate reasons. I feel compassion for him as he seemed to be making steps to evolve but unfortunately hes deep in this unhealthy orange mindset, i hope he learns from what i think will end up being a massive fuck up. Icke will just go back to doing his Icke stuff, i dont think anything will change in that regard. Hopefully Buttar doesnt come back i think what he espouses is truly dangerous, theres african youtube channels using his clips as reference point for them to stand up and refuse vaccines, which has the potential to kill millions of Africans, ironic that hes speaking out against Gates' so called 'depopulation'. Whole things a mess honestly and i hope the public wise up

Check out this as well, its Joey Diaz talking about his experience with Rose, its about 4 min from 15.10 -

@GreenWoods Id lean toward C. Icke has his own agenda, which has been pretty consistent for 30 years like i said, it seems as though he believes what hes saying and wants to get his message out, i dont agree with the way he does some things or how he frames things and how he jumps to wild theories, but in general I wouldnt say he scams people. Although i think he plays up certain points to get more hype. Rose on the other hand seems a bit more calculated. Whats interesting is that although he doesnt really question properly and presents things as facts, he doesnt seem to even have a strong opinion on what Icke is talking about, so allegedly hes thing is wholly a free speech issue. But how far does he want to take it, why not have fundamentalist muslims on or neo-nazis? So then its not really a freedom of speech thing its more he wants to post up certain content, in this case Icke is controversial, it would make a lot more sense if he had an interview with a traditional doctor or a scientist or something as well, its freedom of speech but just one narrative, which is what hes accusing the mainstream of doing. A funny thing with the video you posted is that he is priming his audience for the bad shit thats about to come out about him and theres a lot - https://www.scamguard.com/londonrealtv/ https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/9om9fw/got_scammed_from_londonreal_business_accelerator/ This ones a crypto pyramid scheme he planned a few months back, notice that the crypto thing is in his plans for the donations - https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/fqmy2s/a_new_creepto_pyramid_scheme_targeting_british/ So the question is, is he capable of scamming people, i mean youd have to say yes looking at the evidence and these are historic incidences, so people arent just saying it now to try and shut him down. That doesnt necessarily mean hes doing it here, but i would say its quite likely just based off the tactics that hes using and how hes not being fully transparent because of the 'opposition'. At the very least you could say its a misguided crusade at the worst its a full on scam which could make him millions

Update video just released

They come about from fear and distrust of the government. No one knows exactly what is going on in the world and that is a scary prospect, you dont when youre going to die, you dont know if the world is going to end, we dont know the inner workings of all these organisations that have more power than us. The brain has its orders to keep us safe no matter what, one of the strategies is to seek certainty and thats why its rare to hear someone say 'i dont know'. Religion is a great way to give certainty but also any ideology really gives you a sense a certainty, it might be argued conspiracy theories arent an ideology but either way they give a sense of certainty if you believe them. I think this is a major factor in why people gravitate towards them, you can really see this play out with the pandemic as no one knows whats going and not even the mainstream are saying they know exactly, this is why so many people are adopting them to continue the illusion of certainty

Theres always this thing about we need to destroy the devilry in the elite but theres so much devilry in each of us, theres enough on our plate that we can work on right now. Realistically what can we do to take down those above us? Even if we do, if we havent sorted out our own devilry, through acceptance and awareness, then whatever replaces the current elites will most likely be worse. Hitler wasnt as powerful as he was by himself, he was powerful because he spoke to the devil in all those people, if they had sufficient self awareness all that happened probably wouldnt have. So we all contribute to the collective consciousness and the best thing we can do is build our own awareness

Its something they need to seriously look at in the wake of this pandemic, im not sure exactly how it will be implemented but that will be very important of course. I dont think its fair to say dont do it just because of lazy people or whatever, the fact is workers wagers have stagnated over the last 50 years or so where as ceos and bankers have been getting more and more money meaning the wealth gap has increased significantly and everyones just gotten used to that, it can only continue for so long. Its either a universal wage rise which would be difficult to do, or the ubi which might even be more difficult but i think once people get used to having their basics covered it wont be such a problem, I also cant see a situation where lots of people just give up work

Lets get back to the topic, what is the opinion on London Real at the moment?

@LfcCharlie4 I agree with you as well on some points, like I said in my post I know Ickes history to a certain extent and he's stayed firm despite all that's been thrown at him. That would lead me to believe that he has good intentions and he genuinely believes what he says. But what we need to separate is his spiritual teachings and the effect the conspiracy teachings have. Someone like you might listen to him and understand where he's coming from completely and even agree with the solution he proposes which is love. But your average person is nowhere near yellow, which is where I believe you'd have to be to consume his content in a nuanced way. Most people are at orange maybe even a lot of his fans could be at red, some at green. Either way the question is how are they receiving this info? Usually they're dismissing the love part and just honing in on the conspiracy, fuelling paranoia and fear, and because of how much certainty he talks with it really gets them going. Now is he aware of this? Maybe, he might believe its the only way to wake people up, I don't know. It wouldn't be logical for him to just want to mess people up for so long, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but then you'd have to say he's not as awake as he seems if he's not aware of this effect. The other thing is that Brian Rose seems to be using people like Icke, simply because of the controversy they bring. He's not above putting people who are fear mongering probably in the name of profit like Dr Buttar. So Icke may not be fully in on it but this London Real movement is definitely a strategy to gain loyal followers and pretty much straight away monetise them to the tune of nesrly £1m in donations already. You can see how many have been scammed - https://www.scamguard.com/londonrealtv/ add to that tons of reddit posts and even articles about what a scam it is. Add that to the debt that London Real is in would point to the fact that Brian Rose is more than capable of doing this, it's a shame he's gone down this road as he had potential, but he seems very stuck in Orange despite efforts to move up.

I sell on amazon, normally I do wholesale but because of covid certain things are more difficult. I noticed that a lot of people sell stuff in Facebook marketplace at prices you can make good profit on ebay or amazon. So I've been doing that a little recently, driving around places to pick stuff up. Could be something quite easy for you to do, just have a look on Facebook if you see anything that could be popular check out the price on eBay, negotiate a good price with the seller, list it and make some money

This is very nuanced situation, the fact is big tech shouldn't necessarily be the judge of what is acceptable and what's not so I don't believe that Icke should've been banned. However if you as a company like London Real have this platform and are going to have people with alternative ideas (which there should be a space for) you have to be responsible with it. These interviews are not responsible, everything Icke, Buttar and whoever say, is presented as fact this automatically gives it a propaganda feel. A lot of the claims are easily proven wrong esp in the case of Buttar, it is clear there's a finincial motive for everyone involved. There's no questioning that challenges these claims, which people complain happens in the mainstream as well, which it does but I'd actually argue there's more challanging questioning in the mainstream, even if you don't agree if you want to see it in the mainstream, why would you not want to see it here? Icke has probably been awakened and I think does have a certain understanding of things, but I know just from looking at the comments on YouTube videos most of the people are only concerned with the conspiracy side of things. We have to be honest about that. So if he presents the love stuff as a solution that is not being taken in. The other thing that it's very easy to turn it in to free speech thing or that YouTube is shutting different views down, but the fact is London Real was told that you can't talk about 5g being linked to corona, they talked about and youtube pulled the video. So it wasn't a surprise, then they jump on it and make a big deal about being shut down and ask for donations to setup their own thing, for which they get a million pounds. So there are real issues with how we regulate free speech in this new world, but these guys are definitely taking advantage of the situation, and I'm more talking about London Real and Brian Rose rather than Icke. To be fair to him Icke has been consistent for years, I would question why he's talking about this stuff now as it can only create fear and anger amongst people, I also don't see many solutions from him. I'm terms of it being a cult, I wouldn't go as far as that but there's definitely a lot of cultish tactics and a significant lack of critical thinking from the followers. I think people are scared and want certainty which even the mainstream don't have right now, so believing this kind of stuff gives them that. This videos been posted before but I think it sums everything up well- I also want to post this video, it features Buttar at the end but watch the whole thing to get a sense of where some of these guys are coming from -