Sugarcoat

Yes, although I suspect Ekchart might have reached enlightenment later. Maybe center presence would eventually dissolve too, don't know how it would maintain for decades. The sentence there were you described spiritual awakening as an ongoing process, it sounds to me a bit like how many people seem to use it, if I interpreted it correctly. As in a glimpse followed by perspective change within the human and loosening of the self. Speaking for myself, I would spontaneously think of that word as being the very glimpse itself (in this case into consciousness), or if it's permanent then it never returns to the mind-ego. But overall I see what you're saying, just language difference for most part as I said, also good analogy there at the end, it fits what I meant.

Ok then it was accurate of me, that's why, when I read on here, it's not just about the words, it seems something is able to shine through thats why I am not thrown off by harsh language per say, it depends But if you're in open mode most of time or all time as you wrote here, wouldn't the dense structure start to deconstruct naturally? Not saying it as in that would be a choice, but I just suspected that's how it works when in enlightened state (what you call open), that whatever is left of self starts to unravel without effort. I've heard such stories but also from experience, not of that exact state but as I've written earlier. But your quote there, I'd never say that in this case. I've written somewhere that self is a curse, and I sometimes think to myself how its the worst thing that could ever be, simply because it allows for ridiculous levels of suffering, and I don't even have to suffer super deep myself as of yet to think so, I'm very sensitive to suffering in myself (thats why I'm where I am today in a way). Also, some people when they suffer they become very outwardly toxic to others, like the story you shared of those people perhaps, that to me suggests level of unawareness, when you're more sensitive to what's going on inside its turned more inward so it doesn't make you that toxic to others, which to me is a still a light person but with darkness inside vs the former example is what I like to stay away from 😄

Omg thanks

Its your fault for picking that name😂 No to all those questions eheh

I understand the distinctions you're making, very clear writing IMO, at this point it's just about what one thinks it's suitable to call it, for language sake. Maybe there's impression about enlightenment being the most profound thing, so that stabilization into consciousness presence seems to pale in comparison, it being part of not finding it up to par for the word "awakening". Seems to be perspective some hold, not assuming you think like this. Yes enlightenment, infinity, is incomprehensibly different from even the most subtle self, speaking from logical POV now, because 0.00001 is still no way near 0. But maybe it's underestimated how extremely rare even that stabilization into center presence is, because most who I've heard speak of spiritual awakening, as I said, speak of glimpses, loosening of self, even mindset shifts (because they may describe change of beliefs/paradimgs). Also just impression from people, and also from googling the prevalences (can't know for sure tho ofc). So considering that, I think "spiritual awakening" fits, also language wise (spiritual = some kind of essence, in this context your human essence, awakening = consciousness awakens to itself, I've heard that one somewhere). But it also makes sense how you and some categorize it instead, but I just don't see how else to call it simply.

It's a bit unusual to read when you've shared your sufferings like this because your posts tend to have calm feeling to them, at least from my POV reading. Even when you write about hating with sick passion it feels calm somehow but maybe that's just me at this point hahah sorry. But it sounds intense what you describe which is also rare seeming to me considering how frequently you've described opening to reality. I just mean that I would think that kind of intense suffering would undo itself after a while of that, but also I don't assume you go through the kind of typical ego suffering people do, because even for me that stopped. I feel when I suffer nowadays it's not of same quality as before when I was in that mental ego, which I'm guessing is gone for you too. Or not? When not completely open to reality, when in "normal psychological state", do you return to mind-ego, or that consciousness center presence? The latter being what I described with all the content in it, that still feels like self in a way, but not like that mind-ego which used to have a "fixed" quality to it. Theres also some kind of neurological mechanism that seems there no matter what in my own experience, but its not so easy to pin point. Asking this helps me make sense of my own experiences, my own state, also because I'm a bit curious, because you share from a deep place. Which connects back to the topic of the suffering, I am a bit perplexed how you suffer so deep despite seeming so open in general, meaning not so dense basically. It's like you're forced into the absolute because your self-state sucks too much, is what I'm getting here hahaha.........I'm more of a "suffer to minor degree most of time of my life but not so deeply intense", as a contrast. It's totally fine for me if you don't answer my questions btw

The 4 top intellectuals here you mean?

Ok, if you can feel your human self and the rest is "understanding" for you, how is that enlightenment...Not trying to nit pick the words I got overall impression already Many in society would probably be dumbfounded upon questions about their fundamental self, as its not commonly investigated, so I disagree that its simple for most, I'd say the opposite, people who share from their enlightened state can speak in more simple ways

I'd rather fast then eat ultra processed cake but each to their own

@LordFall Thanks🫡 Fallen Lord😂

That description is spot on to me and is basically what I mean. Then it's just a difference in what to call it....why not "permanent awakening", and then no-self = enlightenment? It's not just me, people use the word "spiritual awakening" (my impression is many use it to describe some form of glimpse then perspective shift that follows, thats why I have to specify with "permanent" when I write), if thats referring to non duality then its not accurate in case someone had glimpse into consciousness instead.

Yea I also focus on the experience when describing. It makes sense what you're saying, for example the last part it's a telling sign when someone claims enlightenment but then shows they suffer typically egoically so it's obvious they're not speaking from that place. What you describe sounds like some form of enlightened state, but the level that is right below human seems to me when you do experience yourself as in the head/body but that is like a space which within it occurs the internal activities.

Many shifts can happen within it yes...the shift of all shifts was when it broke and I was now outside of it and no longer in it, but still here, because as I said theres not just what the average human has then nothing, there is a self beyond that mental clump tension nightmare.

I asked very very simple question, if you don’t understand it, suggests to me your mind is too complex for such simplicity. Why you answer my question but act like you didn’t understand it?

Ok I see

I skimmed through before I posted, read just a little and the thought was triggered. But I had that exact thought that it might seem too "out of context" in a way that would make someone react to it, so in that sense I am very well aware of the "context" here So something has to be perfectly aligned with the literal topic of the thread for you to see any connection there? As if what I said has no relevance whatsoever lol

Right now in this moment, do you have any sense of self? Im not asking for my own sake here

I feel people can be so focused on women compared to men paradigm that they forget that you, if your'e lets say introvert, can have more commonality with a introvert woman than a extrovert man. Just an example, biological sex isn't always main thing setting people apart.

Ok seems you're describing enlightenment, non duality, which you usually do. I can't speak for that beyond what makes sense to me. But there can be a profound, and permanent transition from mind-self to a more empty self, occurring in a split second. I say "more empty" because mind activity within it can still illuminate self, so it's not so clearly empty, but I cant emphasize enough how it's a radically different state in comparison to prior that transition.

Could be

That´s what they call "naturals"

You're helping me draw connections to existing philosophies, cool. You seem to have rich mind I've thought of it in terms of listening to music for the boost, hence the repetition until the boost dies out....seems some listen more from a place of musical interest.

I see, but it doesn't explain to me why someone would go have sex with someone they barely like, if physical touch is what's craved then might as well hug your grandma or go get a massage or something 😂 I hear these stories about guys not wanting to cuddle after, kinda supports my points here I feel 😂

The pain starts to sneak in underneath the pleasure eventually....

The scenario I mentioned sounds to me more so to do with that a real human boosts the horny experience because it’s more real than the videos then also what you said in first paragraph. But then you started talking about what sounds like a loving relationship which is different scenario😂😂Yea ofc you think it’s irreplaceable in that case when there’s connection Yea I’m not advocating for porn and masturbation either, just comparing