Sugarcoat

What is fourth density?

You can’t accept it in your current state of consciousness . But there might be a really small possibility of the ego surrendering, stopping resistance, and or developing extreme mindfulness which makes you overcome suffering of severe pain, I’m not sure if its possible for full torture tho This video is about a man who overcame the suffering of trigeminal neuralgia aka the suicide disease (can cause level 10 pain). So it seems it’s possible to overcome even extreme suffering. But unless you’re presented that possibility you wouldn’t be able to do it, plus you have to endure a LOT before it works, unless you’re lucky

I love this topic. It hits home for me because when I was younger I was scared of the possibility of enduring torture in future reincarnations The possibility of torture is so absolutely horrible that entire humanity should be working together to try to bring an end of it. And it’s not only torture inflicted by other people, some torture can be from disease, like trigeminal neuralgia that can cause pain people would describe as level 10. But people are too chill. Those who don’t get tortured just go about their life without trying to reduce suffering in the world. Imagine if every person got to experience torture. I think it would leave so many in deep trauma that would change their priorities forever. Only then would it be peoples top priority to get rid of it - as it should in a sane world. I totally get you there. From the human perspective it would actually be better if reality was limited. Because then we could control it to a greater extent. But if infinity is true: even if we fix planet earth there might be infinite other universes where horrible things happen to conscious beings Imo self consciousness is the biggest curse. Because it’s what makes torture possible. If you weren’t conscious it wouldn’t matter what happened to your body. It’s a rational fear. It’s just the horrible reality. What we can do for our own happiness is just try to live this current life as well as we can. And if it gets unbearable , suicide can be escape. Some think it’s bad to suggest that, but I’m different there. Imagine being locked up and tortured? Death would be a blessing

I don’t notice any auditorial thoughts when I perceive objects. Like if I look at my lamp I don’t think the word “lamp” unless I’m thinking about it in particular for some reason like “I need a new lamp”

Thoughts seem they can occur outside the mind, forming your sense of reality, so can change your state in that way Staring can make things look weird … Some spiritual person once said heaviness in the head can be blocked crown chakra or something

Ok since you say so… I noticed that if I close my eyes, and focus my attention on the physical sensation of a certain body part: it’s hard to do that without simultaneously visualizing the body parts position (even if it’s so subtle I barely notice the thought) It seems when we direct attention on something: the mind might also think about it I read that one aspect of self inquiry is focusing your attention on the self. If the mind also imagines what it focuses on, it means the mind will imagine the self while it’s focused on. And that will create a self image, contribute to the self rather than dissolving it like self inquiry is supposed to do . But directing attention is seen as a kind of spiritual practice. But if the mind is involved it also becomes kinda conceptual. (But something like labelling might still be considered purely practice) This is based on my own experiences, I could explain more but I think it’s enough. Hehe

My thought is that most people operate “automatically” a lot of the time. So the selfs doing could be said is the “allowing it to happen” (it’s not really a “doing”) In any moment there is opportunity to stop. But even stopping could be automatic, in the way that let’s say a person conditioned with religion thinks sinning is bad so they avoid it. Humans are animals at the end of the day. You could call it all the self, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t arise automatically. And it certainly doesn’t mean change is not possible. The idea “I do this” didn’t it arise automatically 🤔 Maybe I’m wrong tho. I’m not fully firm in this. It maybe also depends on how you define the self. I seem to have gone in an extreme direction of the happening being beyond the self . I can see some flaws in it. But for now I don’t know how to elaborate, so I’ll just let it be

I have thought about this. I can’t answer with 100% certainty, but I find the main reason is that I resonate with some people on here. It’s like a very subtle energetic exchange going on. Felt vibes. It’s also self expression. Getting to hear what my mind has to come up with, the posts stimulating my mind and having me reach in my psyche to find an answer gives me something special. Even if it’s subtle. Just the process of thinking of a response gives me stimulation. And it feels healthy. Like how I’m engaging the part of my brain that is wired for socializing, even if it’s online it’s still a kind of social interaction, also engaging the language part of my brain.

You also see yourself with a mental filter. So that’s right

Peace of mind is health

Maybe Have you heard how some, even some radical non dualist, mention how enlightenment/no self comes with changes in the character . They have described feeling energetic releases. A more balanced personality, neurosis calming down. Less tension and heaviness in the body. It’s cool.

In that case it’s a good choice

That’s so smart I didn’t think of that!

No. Only a little math in chemistry Noting when you get confused is important if you didn’t find a moment to ask directly by raising hand Yes. Writing at least something, forces you to think about the info you are writing down. So it helps focus in that way Its then a matter of what you write down, preferably facts that aren’t on the slides That’s a good tip! Writing shortly makes it so you don’t loose ability to listen too much, while still retaining the most important info I’m gonna study nutrition (I start on Monday officially)

That’s the biggest benefit of writing on paper I think

Great response! I def see your point and I’ve thought the same By having the attitude of seeing different mental states as qualities of consciousness instead of as “bad” , it can reduce our suffering if we ever experience them (for example being curious about one’s dpdr instead of freaking out) I have too! The difference being that I felt my entire body get bigger and like it felt “hard” . I have found that sensation interesting! We can sometimes change how we relate to things Its called “Alice in the wonderland syndrome” It’s interesting that it occurs mostly during relaxation, the brain changes how it experiences the body , the felt border of the body gets bigger

You mean like a temporary increase in body awareness?

That’s how I feel with contemplation lol, it needs to be supported by a process beyond concept to work kinda

Funny that you understood 😆 Kudos to you for doing vipassana it sounds very hard! That’s cool you were able to shut down that mechanism in the mind. Maybe you accessed something deeper in the bodily sensation by removing the mental barrier, like what Leo talked about in his video about “actuality”. The actuality of reality vs concept

Lmao here we go again Honestly maybe we just function differently Also if you have a strong sense of self , you might feel strongly identified with your actions , and it feels like you’re doing it all, you’re thinking your thoughts etc. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a process beyond you that influences or sometimes controls it. Like people who severely binge eat: yes they’re the ones grabbing the food but the binging can be driven by desires that overwhelm the self, caused by deep genetic wiring and the reward system Sometimes taking control can be an action of willpower, and willpower is a limited source for most unless you’re someone like David Goggins. So it can indeed be like a war of different aspects within yourself

Nevermind me

Cool sharing

It seems to me a realization of the absolute has the tendency to calm down neurosis so someone could realize it while “insane” and maybe their problems would calm down , after the ego backlash has ran its course (Like some non dualists speak of the effect of enlightenment on the character )

Hmm interesting I can correlate it a little to my own experience. In moments of it seeming like there’s less self the visuals can be extra crisp. Things seem kinda empty like they lack that solid substance…. So maybe you are onto something. But you could still investigate something the conventional route (doctor) IF it’s causing you a problem physically, just to rule it out… If there is any anxiety present (which could occur in spiritual happenings) it could contribute to physical symptoms. But you didn’t mention any anxiety so maybe not. The self/mind has a kind of effect on the body. When we maintain our sense of self, it can cause stress and tension (because it relies on impermanent things). So when the self lessens it can feel like a “loosening” /release of tension in the body. For me it has always felt good. But who knows maybe it could cause some other symptoms 🤔

Like do people think the self is gonna stay perfectly stable all their life? Especially considering it might be an illusion, if something is illusory it makes sense there would be cracks in it sometimes. But conventionally it’s seen as mental illness