Sugarcoat

👍🏻 It seems the self has the odd quality that: we are it, while we are also aware of it… The self def doesn’t seem hidden from me lol. If I could tell you how big part of my life used to be about improving my self image I think having the ability to set aside what you think you know can be useful yes… I see 😊

Maybe you could cut out certain pieces of the brain and show it to someone and they wouldn’t identify with it so yea maybe we don’t identity with brain, but it could be thought so because we feel located somehow behind the eyes Not really but with enough willpower and attention it has the potential to stop a reflex I’d say

The brain maybe… But the body can affect our choices in for example if we put our hand on a hot stove we will reflexively pull away. So the choice that the self has can be what the body/brain is wired for in some instances

You could say the self is the very programming and brain wiring too, so even if the boy got programmed to think smoking is cool and is wired to try to fit in the tribe socially, you could still say he made that decision so yes in that sense I agree. But it’s like the self is not this independent entity with choice it’s a collection of the biology, conditioning etc.

It shifts for me What are you grounding your assumption of that it doesn’t work on?

Yes the self did that- but it doesn’t say much about what made the self do that, if it’s a conscious and autonomous decision or not

I have similar thoughts you’re really speaking to my heart in this

Me wiggling my feet while sitting happened automatically, etc .We say “we do it” because that’s what we call any action, it’s how we use language, but it doesn’t say everything about how the action arose Its still my responsibility in the sense that I have the choice to stop those things I didn’t eat much so if I imagine pasta carbonara I can feel very subtle craving that wasn’t initially there So yea maybe I was wrong I can indeed create desire. But in my experience it doesn’t go further than “subtle” Once again language, yea it’s mine but it doesn’t say everything about how the desire arose If a boy starts smoking cigarettes at the age of 12 when he doesn’t know it’s addictive, gets severely addicted When he’s an adult he decides he wants to stop. He uses his willpower and he practices spiritual practices to develop mindfulness of the addiction etc Yet it still happens from time to time that he grabs cigarette. I think it’s realistic to say it’s sometimes caused by “wiring of the reward pathway “ or something. It’s unrealistic to say the self causes all action imo Agree I kinda explained my disagreements above so that connects to this I like that idea. Like purifying the psyche, that has been a priority of mine over the years. Ofc every topic one could go even deeper in…

Very cool I have also experienced positive change that I’m not sure I can take credit for because it has felt like a natural inclination for me to try to make that change. So there we are on the same page. Although I’m still not sure about this entire “role of the self” thing

I have noticed too it seems there is layers of thought. And some I am more or less aware of, some may be so subtle I don’t register it.

Nothing can prevent me from wanting to take it

Attention seems to do with pure perception (or maybe we could say having a self is like a veil over perception so it’s not fully pure, but for now we can call it the purest thing we can access) I just meant it seems sometimes the mind is active simultaneously as we move around attention Thanks for the suggestion of doing self inquiry It seems we can notice a sense of self that is not to do with the act of thinking, but rather like a presence.

@Princess Arabia Ok cool

What is fourth density?

You can’t accept it in your current state of consciousness . But there might be a really small possibility of the ego surrendering, stopping resistance, and or developing extreme mindfulness which makes you overcome suffering of severe pain, I’m not sure if its possible for full torture tho This video is about a man who overcame the suffering of trigeminal neuralgia aka the suicide disease (can cause level 10 pain). So it seems it’s possible to overcome even extreme suffering. But unless you’re presented that possibility you wouldn’t be able to do it, plus you have to endure a LOT before it works, unless you’re lucky

I love this topic. It hits home for me because when I was younger I was scared of the possibility of enduring torture in future reincarnations The possibility of torture is so absolutely horrible that entire humanity should be working together to try to bring an end of it. And it’s not only torture inflicted by other people, some torture can be from disease, like trigeminal neuralgia that can cause pain people would describe as level 10. But people are too chill. Those who don’t get tortured just go about their life without trying to reduce suffering in the world. Imagine if every person got to experience torture. I think it would leave so many in deep trauma that would change their priorities forever. Only then would it be peoples top priority to get rid of it - as it should in a sane world. I totally get you there. From the human perspective it would actually be better if reality was limited. Because then we could control it to a greater extent. But if infinity is true: even if we fix planet earth there might be infinite other universes where horrible things happen to conscious beings Imo self consciousness is the biggest curse. Because it’s what makes torture possible. If you weren’t conscious it wouldn’t matter what happened to your body. It’s a rational fear. It’s just the horrible reality. What we can do for our own happiness is just try to live this current life as well as we can. And if it gets unbearable , suicide can be escape. Some think it’s bad to suggest that, but I’m different there. Imagine being locked up and tortured? Death would be a blessing

I don’t notice any auditorial thoughts when I perceive objects. Like if I look at my lamp I don’t think the word “lamp” unless I’m thinking about it in particular for some reason like “I need a new lamp”

Thoughts seem they can occur outside the mind, forming your sense of reality, so can change your state in that way Staring can make things look weird … Some spiritual person once said heaviness in the head can be blocked crown chakra or something

Ok since you say so… I noticed that if I close my eyes, and focus my attention on the physical sensation of a certain body part: it’s hard to do that without simultaneously visualizing the body parts position (even if it’s so subtle I barely notice the thought) It seems when we direct attention on something: the mind might also think about it I read that one aspect of self inquiry is focusing your attention on the self. If the mind also imagines what it focuses on, it means the mind will imagine the self while it’s focused on. And that will create a self image, contribute to the self rather than dissolving it like self inquiry is supposed to do . But directing attention is seen as a kind of spiritual practice. But if the mind is involved it also becomes kinda conceptual. (But something like labelling might still be considered purely practice) This is based on my own experiences, I could explain more but I think it’s enough. Hehe

My thought is that most people operate “automatically” a lot of the time. So the selfs doing could be said is the “allowing it to happen” (it’s not really a “doing”) In any moment there is opportunity to stop. But even stopping could be automatic, in the way that let’s say a person conditioned with religion thinks sinning is bad so they avoid it. Humans are animals at the end of the day. You could call it all the self, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t arise automatically. And it certainly doesn’t mean change is not possible. The idea “I do this” didn’t it arise automatically 🤔 Maybe I’m wrong tho. I’m not fully firm in this. It maybe also depends on how you define the self. I seem to have gone in an extreme direction of the happening being beyond the self . I can see some flaws in it. But for now I don’t know how to elaborate, so I’ll just let it be

I have thought about this. I can’t answer with 100% certainty, but I find the main reason is that I resonate with some people on here. It’s like a very subtle energetic exchange going on. Felt vibes. It’s also self expression. Getting to hear what my mind has to come up with, the posts stimulating my mind and having me reach in my psyche to find an answer gives me something special. Even if it’s subtle. Just the process of thinking of a response gives me stimulation. And it feels healthy. Like how I’m engaging the part of my brain that is wired for socializing, even if it’s online it’s still a kind of social interaction, also engaging the language part of my brain.

You also see yourself with a mental filter. So that’s right

Peace of mind is health

Maybe Have you heard how some, even some radical non dualist, mention how enlightenment/no self comes with changes in the character . They have described feeling energetic releases. A more balanced personality, neurosis calming down. Less tension and heaviness in the body. It’s cool.

In that case it’s a good choice