MatteO22

@mivafofa Well when I ask what your parents’ relationship was like it’s rather an objective answer, not necessarily whether it means something to you. it’s impossible to not be affected by your parents relationship. You receive subconscious messages all the time. Even saying ‘I did everything as I wanted’ was likely a reaction to your environment. So it’s more of a question of becoming aware of your childhood conditioning and how you grew up and how it shaped you. when you say ‘those questions don’t mean anything to me’ - do you have a reason to not want your childhood mean anything to you ? It means something to all of us, even if you feel like it means nothing - what do you gain by labelling those experiences as meaningless ?

Got my vaccine today for which I registered the moment I was eligible in my country. Pfizer shot, second dose will come in August. - I feel good emotionally because I like the idea of being vaccinated and embracing the self-responsibility that comes with that. Side effects: immediately after the shot I experienced shortness of breath, that went away after 20 minutes, now just my arm is sore. exciting stuff ! happy to be on the vaccine train

whatever the decision is, I strongly advise not to be motivated by FOMO, FOMO is a manifestation of insecurity. It’s an ego fear. Acting on it and breaking relationships based on it is unwise and shortsighted. Fomo isn’t good motivation. Ive never ever followed fomo and then felt some form of satisfaction. it usually implies that there are some things and Experiences you should be doing/having - there really are no ‘shoulds’ in consciousness. …. From a souls perspective you’re already whole so to miss out on anything is a delusion. So before making a decision, sit with it for a period of time. Give yourself a month or two to contemplate. Why do I really want this ? What’s driving me ? Sit and feel into that. What’s the emotion underneath it all ?

mistake.

Sure. Gender comes with many socialised standards, expectations and connotations. What it means to be a woman - to you ? What were you told about womanhood by your family ? What were the messages you received about womanhood indirectly ? What were the societal pressures about womanhood that you experienced ? If you were to fill in the blank - I am a woman, and therefore I… ‘ - first thing that comes to mind is usually correct representation of what partially runs in your subconscious. Similarly - what were you taught about relationships by your parents ? What was the relationship between your parents like ? Happy and healthy ? Tumultuous ? Passive aggressive ? Emotionally sterile ? Codependent ? - as a child you soak all this info in as a blueprint for relationships and attraction. the psychedelic plant can for a moment just take all that baggage aside and show you how you might feel when some of those pressures (probably not all of them) are taken away. - what it’s like to free yourself up from your conditioning for a moment. Do you feel different ? Do you choose different things ? Good questions. You don’t always need to find the right answer, but in the asking of the question itself you open up space for expansion !

I just turned on the last one for a sec, ‘your tits are gay… ya your tits are retarded ’ ??????? I Can’t man, I can’t!!

Great! Means we can meet and connect heart to heart ! ?

?? I love it when a guy says ‘no homo’. Nothing says ‘I’m secure in my masculinity’ more!

The thing is, it’s not only women who attribute rejection to a faulty character trait in a person. It’s men as well. Men call themselves and each other beta and what not. So it’s more of a matter of taking responsibility for your own internal dialogue than needing women to clear themselves of projections - because their projections will only hurt you when there are parts of you that agree with them. This isn’t to justify their harshness, but to bring awareness to the signs your own pain might be telling you. That’s all good. Everything is a learning curve. I find you different from how Emerald expresses herself. You seem to speak from your heart more often than not. I think Emerald can hold back her emotions and get overly analytical/technical which I think can be a bypass to your own emotional body, and to overuse the mind and somewhat repress the heart. I hope I’m not putting her on the spot, I’m aware that me and her have had minor differences and I dont intend this to sound passive aggressive. Not at all. But in a place dominated by the mind (mainly Leo being an analytical mind based person) it is refreshing to see a courageous heart making its way towards freedom and expression.

If you’re suggesting that self-responsibility means rejecting someone and fully acknowledging that the reason you are rejecting them is because of your personal needs, preferences and desires and it’s not because the person being rejected is ‘beta, fucked up, ugly, unattractive or dull witted’ then you have a point. Regardless to phrase something as ‘taking responsibility for rejection’ is almost suggestive that you should not be rejected and you should be entitled to a relationship with any woman you chase. Which of course is bananas. I think that’s where the misunderstanding might be.

@Etherial Cat I don’t have much to contribute to the debate, I just wanna say - you go girl! ? I admire the free unapologetic expression you bring through! It feels very empowering, regardless of the subject matter. You’re clear and direct but you’re not hostile which is amazing! Love it! Thank you.

I’m with you 100%, open relationships often while seemingly promoting open mindedness are just a disguise for commitment phobia. Learn how to love yourself and another with one person - that can be really freaking hard. A deep spiritual and healing journey. Adding more people into the mix doesn’t actually add benefit. What adds benefit is your commitment to a healthy and secure relationship with yourself and with a partner. good boundary, I dig that !

It’s precisely because it is counter productive. When you think about what motivates someone to take on the identity of let’s say an incel - it’s because for some individuals it’s too scary to open up to the possibility, that they can get better, and so they need to find reasons and rationalisations why it’s not safe for them to open up, and why they’re determined to stay stuck - because having hope would on some level hurt more. In simple terms, they’re not ready to get better. One day they may be, maybe in the next lifetime. But it is not today. Today I shall complain online and do my best to make sure I don’t give myself a slither of room to hope and get better or heal! Today, is not that day! Today hope shall not live, and pain shall not be healed. Today we INCEL!

@mivafofa psychedelics tend to turn off the mechanisms that motivate you via conditioning, insecurity and inauthentic expressions of yourself. Would you say that there may be insecure aspects to why you’re attracted to certain things in relationships? Similarly, would you say that there are insecure aspects of what gender represents to you ? and the psychedelics are like - well what if it didn’t have to be that way ? What if your self worth was complete and whole - would you be motivated differently ? So much of what we do and desire in relationships is silly human games. When you feel like a demi-god who can birth planets into existence (that was my experience), the silly human games suddenly feel irrelevant.

I mean … you seem to be on the right track - you’re what 22 and going through this level of healing ? - that is rather impressive! So well done, it’s fantastic that you’re aware of enmeshment. Healing takes time and as you heal, limiting beliefs regarding relationships often start falling off without needing to be overly focused on untangling them. From what I can tell you’re self aware and committed to your healing journey enough to surely end up in the right place at the right time Just one last thing I can help you with to feel more okay and supported - you’re never wasting time. Even if you get into the ‘wrong’ relationship- it’s the universe throwing that relationship your way in order to usher you into your next level of healing. Everything happens for the purpose of deepening your healing journey, and so there’s nothing to fear, not even the wasting of your time - because all the time you spend in certain conditions and places is the exact time you need in order to heal certain layers or trauma within your body. It’s always meant to play out perfectly, to serve your evolution! All the best, it’s a pleasure to be of service to you ❤️

Thanks !

@soos_mite_ah well, the biggest blind spot I see is regarding the fact of needing your partner to have their shit together and come to you when they’re whole - that’s a lot of pressure! It’s not that you should be held accountable for other peoples problems, but I think you’re afraid that someone may manipulate you into having that responsibility (which is often times where avoidance comes from, where as a child you felt like you couldn’t rely on your parents, and when you’d share with them or had some sort of an issue, they’d either manipulate and avoid or they seemed so unable to handle it that you found yourself needing to caretake for their needs and emotions, and Since that was so traumatic, you said to yourself ‘never again, I shall always make sure everyone cares for their stuff, and we don’t bleed on one another’). I understand this, I’ve had a similar issue. You might wanna look into enmeshment trauma, it speaks about this dynamic, and having to play a ‘parental role’ in your relationships, which when comes from enmeshment is deeply unhealthy and dysfunctional. When you start healing enmeshment it opens up door to vulnerability and your own emotional needs, and allowing yourself to actually receive in a relationship, and not always feeling like you have to be the one to ‘step up’ and provide support, but to actually be the ‘supported one’. It feels nice!

Good reaction :D! But hey good for you for being aware of your attachment style. In what you’ve shared there are many preconceived notions about relationships that we can have a discussion about how healthy they are, but I think that would be somewhat distracting. I think the main reorientation has to be that you need to flip your relationship to vulnerability. It is not the case that ‘once you feel safe enough in a relationship’ you open up, it’s actually the opposite. You need to lead with vulnerability. Sure there’s no need to over share but If you’re DA, oversharing really won’t be your problem so no need to worry. But all these things about when to commit, spotting red flags, seeing the dynamic etc. - all that is solved by you being vulnerable rather sooner than later - and I mean there’s no reason to hold back vulnerability right from the start, because if you lead with vulnerability you’re making sure that the person you’re with is getting to know the real you, and not an idea you’re presenting. You’re also making sure that you get to witness his reaction to your own vulnerability which will give you a better opportunity to spot red flags than anything else. Don’t mistake this with codependency. Because codependency is a trauma response, there’s nothing vulnerable about it, it’s actually a control strategy, not a vulnerable representation of oneself. It’s an avoidance of your attachment fears by holding on too tightly. I remember hearing a story about a girl who leaned DA - she took her time to commit and open up, and a guy who seemed super into her and super invested, suddenly took off after 5 months - because at the 5 month mark she started embracing vulnerability, and he got scared and went bye bye. So really vulnerability is a way to prevent this from happening, not something that is gonna hurt you inherently. I also wanna mention that you said you expect relationships to be ‘drama free’ - not to put you on the spot, and I wanna assure you that im not trying to be critical of you so no worries - but ‘no drama’ is often a disguise for saying ‘I fear conflict’ - and that would make sense because conflict is scary, but conflict is also an opportunity to find your own vulnerability, and meet it with your partners vulnerability - when conflict is embraced consciously, connection and vulnerability are found, so there’s no need to fear. Relationships are messy because we’re all human and have messy lives, so if we have authentic relationships, we will have messy relationships. And there’s beauty in that. There’s beauty in choosing to love yourself and someone else inspite of the messiness that comes along. I’m not trying to justify toxic chaotic relationships just to be clear, but I think you get the gist! I hope this helps! You’ve got this im sure!

Of course, there are men that do awful entitled things. But it’s shortsighted to determine the ‘legitimacy’ of a specific community just because there are ‘some things’ that make sense. There will always be some things that are legit, but as long as it’s constructed on a set of values that make that aforementioned quote normal, acceptable and tolerable, you’re building a community on a toxic premise, which is the same thing that happens with Red Pill. and even outside of the dating world - I bet some things MAGA are legit. Doesn’t mean it’s not a bananas group built on the worship of narcissism. It’s either built on the values of growing consciousness, or it is built in ways that perpetuate denial. When you build a community in a way that perpetuates denial, you can always find ‘kernels of consciousness’ within that group. But if consciousness woke up in those individuals, the group would fall apart in seconds. Thats how you determine how aligned with conscious values someone is - if consciousness saw this, would it engage, or would it take off and go somewhere else? A funny way to think about it is… if the Buddha saw this (or Jesus or any other enlightened figure), would he facepalm? hahaha I think that’s foolproof and funny as hell.

I said nothing about blatant misogyny on the forum in this thread, if you want an answer you’ll have to quote me specifically in the thread that you’re referencing so I’m in the picture on what what you want explained.

‘Hahahaha cry me a river you pathetic excuse of a man. Men have become such victimised couch creatures they want us to beg for the opportunity to be used…’ Thats Quoted from the link you quoted in your response. Can you elaborate on the accuracy of hate speech against men ? for Context, imagine a guy saying: ‘Hahaha you stupid whore, it’s like you want me to bend over backwards just to get in your pants!’ oh how different

@soos_mite_ah fantastic question. You might want to look at attachment styles and how they each navigate the dating stage. From your description you might be leaning a little more on the avoidant side (which would make sense given what I’ve been able to learn about you in our short interactions on the forum). Here’s a great video describing that (the imortant part starts at 4 minutes) She has also videos on every other attachment style in the dating stage (and all kinds of other videos). Chances are that the guy might be probably anxious preoccupied or potentially fearful avoidant, I wouldn’t really know. Regardless in terms of relationships attachment Theory is the most helpful thing you can really learn about! ps: dismissive avoidance sometimes get a really really bad wrap in comments and other people’s rants because of their traumatic experiences in relationships; so don’t be discouraged. It’s a healing journey, not a broken destination.

well I think the issue is that we’re far from what we were talking about originally - guys on the forum pushing sexist ideas that fall under the umbrella of redpill and pua. It’s not even about rp and pua, but mainly about the tone and arrogance that it is posted with. Yes there are healthy parts of pua, for example rsd Julien teaches trauma release and originally I learned a lot from him. I don’t think pua should be cancelled, but refined, softened and made ‘greener’ in a spiral dynamics sense. with redpill I haven’t seen any evidence that it mostly isn’t just toxic mess degrading women and disregarding and limiting men’s ability to be feminine and emotional.

I would agree, but as long as it’s a reaction ‘to’ toxicity it’s based on a toxic premise in and of itself. You don’t heal and deal with manipulation by reacting to it, but by realising it’s futility and stop playing the game altogether. I’ve dealt with manipulative females for a majority of my life. And yet (and I’m quoting a user here who said this and I found it hilarious and genius :D) I wouldn’t say that ‘hot young girls just drive the cock carousel in their twenties and then they settle for a beta male provider once they start expiring.’ - that’s a red pill idea. And how dehumanising is it! Also… You’re right, but a a certain portion of both of those cultures is abusive, and by being part of it regardless you will end up turning a blind eye and being an enabler and a bystander to some interesting tendencies (such as the ‘cockcarousel’ - btw funniest word ever ) that I mentioned earlier.

Yes that’s usually quite manipulative. But that’s not what I was getting at, I think preetys manipulation is way more than that as per what she says and how she tends to act on the forum. That is untrue. I didn’t say you’re a manipulator, I said you suggesting ‘make him nervous’ is you suggesting manipulation. I mean… it’s just obvious isn’t it! Why would anyone pretend it isn’t. Trying to gain a certain outcome indirectly with your actions is manipulation. It’s what it is. You can’t make anyone happy. If you are trying to make someone happy you’re taking responsibility for their emotional state which will probably lead you down a path of What ? You guessed it! Manipulation ??. sure you can be nice and supportive, but that’s far from ‘making happy’. Make happy is what we say when we are being codependent. An extension of my wholeness is what I’d like a relationship to represent. It’s very far from trying to to enmesh and placate to a partner who may or may not be suited to be a good match. Who’s unhealthier ? Who gives a fuck! ? I dont. I have nothing to prove.