DieFree

LORD bless this holy gathering of clowns, sycophants, would be authoritarians, and worst of all, Candace Owens. Amen.

Have you considered how your status as foreigner from well developed country might have influenced the behavior toward you in those countries? Do you believe people from all countries are treated with similar hospitality? Furthermore, should outward displays of warmth and friendliness be given much weight when we know places such as the southern United States very much display those behaviors while being discriminatory toward minority groups?

You're not going around labeling people low consciousness to get a little hit of superiority heroin

INTP. And after reading dozens of MBTI books, I've come to the conclusion we are essentially clones of each other. We can also take over the world if we weren't lazy af and more interested in understanding the world than changing the world.

If the U.S was led by competent people, and not morons who win elections simply by looking the part, then the government would run effective propaganda like "If the Prophet Muhammad's own wife Khadija bint Khuwaylid was a successful and independent business woman, why is the taliban refusing to let women out of the house to do their work. Does the taliban have a problem with the example of the blessed prophet?"

Pretty much that. America is (or was, this is changing) a high-wage high-consumption society that valorized an "American Lifecycle" of a large suburban home, car and obedience to capital as long as capital enabled this lifecyle.

I started joining some Spiral Dynamics communities on Facebook and some of them are asking me to disavow any connection between Beck's contribution and that of Ken Wilbur's Integral and Cowan and some other names and I'm just like WTF? It feels like some Medieval schism is going on. What's the tea?

I see Might try escalating the issue one level. More likely to encounter intuitive leaders at higher levels. Someone with good strategic thinking ability will realize how chaos, employee low morale etc will harm the company and by association, their own standing and career prospects. Also, saying "I'm concerned what our customers will think" is a good ploy if the company cares about its reputation.

Brainwash the manager into stage green by dressing it up as strange orange. Use numbers to make your case. If you're too concerned for your job to make the case directly to him, write a glassdoor review and then email it to him anonymously (or a screenshot). Don't attack him personally and help him understand what he will gain through adopting stage green practices (don't call it that!) - higher employee retention, more productivity, less HR issues, more profit, etc.

@Leo Gura - since spiral people seemed so willing to dismiss others as "tier 1 thinkers" I must say I was surprised at the level of pettiness. sigh. The community needs more incense burning, mediation n' meditation, and most of all, magical mushroom tripping. Would you agree?

As an INTP, I would recommend the books written by Aj Drenth, particularly the one with the red cover. The insights there are staggering. It feels both weird as fuck and also uplifting to know others experience the world with such profound similarity as myself despite being raised in such different social contexts/families. Combining insights from type theory and spiral can lead to a very nuanced, empowering view of the world.

in other value meme dominated territories e.g. red/blue? I live in a green area and my citizenship is U.S. My parents, recent immigrants, come from an extremely violent red/blue society. More red. My goal in life is to have some impact, and want to figure out where it makes the most sense for me to focus my efforts. Thoughts?

@Stovo - That's such a good point. As much as i'm irritated by green's naivety and kumbaya bs, its values are much more uplifting than the red/blue and im not trying to regress in the spiral. red/blue also seem to make it their mission to make sure you act like them esp blue

@Leo Gura - I feel you are right. It's still sad tho. @Preety_India - It's not about getting an "upper spot." Or maybe it is. It's more where can I help move people up the spiral.

My roommate in college was a conservative. Over the first quarter he told me his admiration for Bush - "he really loved our country," his resentment for Obama over issues like the gay pride colors project onto the WH, and his (roomie's) support for the death penalty. He was a smart dude and not dogmatic about his beliefs. Willing to listen and adopt new ideas. Last I met him he was in Seattle with a very liberal vibe to him. I think conservatives should be welcomed. Many of them are toxic, racist and the source of many problems, but even if there was a small chance they will take some useful insight from this forum it's good to keep it open. A proverb from Somalia (rough translation): ‘One doesn't tell an adult ‘go away' but one shows (or gives) him/her something to go away with."

Why would you be surprised that Fox News would invite a minority who opposes efforts to help minorities and rectify social injustices? They've been doing that for decades now. My perspective is that American schools should do a much better job teaching the three Rs - arithmetic, writing, and reading - but it's not an either or situation. They can teach those, and teach them well, while also having a robust curriculum that opens the eyes of students to the very real injustices, much of it based on race, gender, and sexuality, that continue to plague American society and ruin us all with their impact.

lower levels Let's say a department boss who publicly claims to be in favor of economic equality on racial lines, but does not use their political power at the firm to give good wages and consistent wage growth to black employees.

It's likely we are living in a simulation. God is the designer of the simulation. The meaning of life is to keep things interesting in order to stop the simulation from being yanked. With Donald Trump serving as U.S president, a global pandemic, and now aliens visiting us - - all within past the 2 years -- the simulation designers have done their part to make the timeline interesting. The rest is up to us.

Stage blue actually did do exactly that back around 2006, and established the most effective legal authority and overran nearly all of the warlords. Women were banned from working outside, musicians had to hide their musical instruments in closets, and activities as mundane as going to an outdoor cinema suddenly became a no no, but for the first time the predatory red couldn't shake down people at checkpoints that they arbitrarily stood up everywhere or kill you for the sport of it. Stage blue theocratic belief also was more prestigious and powerful than stage purple tribalism and allowed politics to function at a level higher than clan. But during the war on terror, Islam-based stage blue was very threatening so a foreign power came and destroyed the authority of the stage blue using funding from the U.S and so the politics reverted back to feuding stage red warlords.

People are talking about this. It's even showing up on prestige media with some frequency since 2017. You're asking why it's not a bigger deal. Why more sectors of society - like academia - aren't involved. To that, I can only offer speculation. It's hard for people to accept huge paradigm shifts, and what we are seeing means we will undergo the biggest paradigm shift in our history. Our understanding of science, our place in the cosmos, the power we have over our own world - all of this will be shaken. For those of us who don't attach too much emotion to information, this is no big deal and even exciting. New and better information is better than old and outdated information. But for many others accepting such a huge change of mindset will be very hard for them temperamentally. This includes many scientists who will now need to accept many of their beliefs of how the universe works (and projects they've been working on their entires lives) are incorrect and need to be reassembled. For a minority of them, this will be magical news. For the conformist majority used to only very incremental changes, this will be hard. There will be denial. The NYT is already publishing denials by physicists.

Spiral Dynamics definitely does need to be applied more often to world problems. Our world is becoming so complex and interconnected, yet we are not quick enough in adopting new conceptual models to understand it. My family comes from a "failed state" trying to resurrect itself that has tons of UN/"international community" (IC) types running around saying they are there to "help." The IC is a mix of stage blue (military), orange and stage green (journalists, analysts, special envoys etc) people. The stage green types are by far the most obnoxious and unintentionally destructive to the state building process. State building, especially in stage purple/red societies, requires some element of strategic violence and coercion to eliminate rivals and consolidate power (see Charles Tilley). The stage green are in total denial about this. They have this magical thinking that a bunch of warlords in stage red will "negotiate" their differences, perfectly abide by a bunch of legalisms written in a constitution, and "hold elections." I'm not against negotiation, elections or following written laws - but this takes time to develop in a society. A stage red society does not respect some egghead talking in legalisms, it respects someone who can exercise power and dominate rivals so that's why one side needs to win. The problem in this situation is that all the factions are basically tied, so none has any incentive to negotiate. Recently one of the presidents had the upper-hand and was successfully consolidating power, but the stage green people from the IC staged an intervention and weakened his hand. Consolidating power is a big no non for them; constant "reconciliation" conferences and election-talks facilitated by NGOs, that's what they want (this has been going on for 30 years, 0 progress), and if they don't get it, foreign aid gets yanked, and nasty coverage in the media will follow. Now it's back to gridlock (same pattern happened in the 1990s). Same story is happening all over the place in other countries. Green thinks it's helping and being humanitarian and morally advanced, but in reality it is perpetuating state collapse and causing misery for the population stuck in that. Very frustrating.

The most significant data point established so far is the government publicly acknowledging that UFOs are real, they do not know what is behind them, and they are seriously investigating. This is a big shift. The videos released so far are crappy and won't move the public much. The government has much better evidence captured through advanced aerial imaging systems, satellite imagery and other data like radar and measurement and signature intelligence (MASINT). All of this evidence tells the same story: unknown objects in the sky are traveling at speeds and performing movements beyond our comprehension of science. Why are they not rushing to release this information? There's a few factors, but one of the main ones (according to Nick Pope) is that governments see Earth powers as competitors in a rush to try and understand this technology and see if it can be re-engineered. If your foes don't know you're studying this stuff, maybe they won't either. I've accepted that UFOs are driven by non-human intelligence. It was incredible to make that realization, and I'm a little amazed by how "normal" this reality already feels. I really hope they are peaceful and they are willing to interact with us in a positive way. I really hope their moral sense has advanced to the same levels as their technology, just as our moral sense is as primitive as our technology.