Federico del pueblo

@flowboy Ok, very interesting! Thanks so much! Ok, makes sense that you need to keep going. That you can do unguided sessions too is great, because I live on a different continent than the primal institute But apart from that I do believe that I'd have the discipline to repeat the process again and again, every week. I'm already doing almost nothing but my healing stuff, lol. So again, thank you!

@flowboy hello again I just read the ebook from the pujalepp.com website. That sounds like really deep stuff they do there. I'm wondering if you learn things in this workshop that you can later keep doing at home too or whether it's more like you need the group environment to achieve healing? I mean, I would assume that you can achieve a lot in such a workshop, but you also want to continue with it afterwards right? Also, do you still remember roughly the cost of such a workshop? Thanks buddy, you're a hero here in this forum! ????

@Sincerity Thanks! ??? Another general question for everyone: how long before a breathing session should you not eat? And is there a risk of throwing up or even shitting my pants when things get intense? ?

I could do 30 minutes and then ended the breath when my timer rang. I didn't feel like I could have done a whole lot more, so I was kinda alleviated when it was over. Over time some dizziness in my head developed. Then I got tingling sensations in my hands and later in my feet, which over time started to spread out in my forearms and calves. Some time later I almost couldn't feel my hands and feet anymore at all. But with that little bit of feeling left I noticed that my hand and forearm muscles were cramping. It was as though I was clawing into the ground. Mind-wise it felt like a light inebriation. But nothing out of the ordinary happened after I stopped the breath and chilled. I was lying there for about another 15 minutes and then got up. No emotions arose nor did anything related to altered states of mind happen, I was just more awake (in the ordinary sense of the word). So do you think I should just go for longer and/or breath still faster/more deeply? Thanks guys!

Good that you mention it, lol. I guess the loss of consciousness is a symptom of hyperventilation, kind of what we must expect when we take in so much oxygen, right? I'll be careful about where I place myself ?

Good to know! Interesting. Hold the breath after having fully breathed out or fully breathed in? Ok. Small dose would be about 50 ug of LSD or more?

@Mormegil I'll work my way up to longer durations. Thank you!

? Good advice, thanks flowboy! I'll do it again with a deeper breath.

@flowboy Holy shit brother. I just now noticed that you heavily pimped your original posts with more tips and info! Thank you so much! Now there's a lot for me to contemplate. I need a few days to wrap my head around this. There's a lot I could do now. I'll probably pm you these days about this. Thanks for everything! ???

It wasn't activated in real life, but just in my dream. In the dream at some point I spontaneously started to focus on that solar plexus area above the navel (for no apparent reason). Then I suddenly felt a huge physiological shift. A sensation of bliss and joy started to spread from that area throughout the entire body and into the brain and it felt so good that within my dream I had to make some noises with my voice like "aaaaahhhhh" (kind of similar to when you have an orgasm). Then I woke up. I still felt a little bit of that good sensation but then it quickly vanished. Now I'm wondering why I would have such a dream? It seems a bit too specific to just be some random dream incident, even though I often dream of the most random and illogical things. I haven't done a single "chakra meditation" in many months, so it's totally not like chakras have been at the forefront of my mind at all. What do you think of this?

@flowboy Thanks so much for responding!! It all makes a lot of sense now. I had given myself something like a "deadline", a date until which I wanted to continue with my current approach to then reevaluate the results. I will definitely contemplate the things you mentioned as a new therapy option, so thanks a lot for sharing! I guess that's how you know you've found your life's purpose! ?

No.

I will try and let you know ? I'm glad you're enjoying it! There's no need to ignore you, it's all good.

@flowboy wow man. All this stuff is extremely intriguing! I also watched the video you linked in your signature, in which you talk about all the things we discussed here. That resonates a lot with me! That's very insightful! And it's kinda interesting, because I felt like I had tried to do something akin to what you describe in point 2, but not a lot happened. Now I'm wondering if I simply lacked skill or proper guidance. E.g. I actually proposed doing this to my therapist who does hypnotherapy and he then said that we could give it a try and he called it something like "regression therapy". So then he hypnotised me and I tried to go back in my childhood and become aware of whether I had experienced certain traumatic things that I'm not even aware of nowadays. Maybe we also looked at things I can still remember, but I'm not sure anymore. What I do know is that I never had any of these strong emotional reactions where you start to cry and really sort of immersed in the past experience. But again, this might be due to lack of skill or guidance. It also wasn't the specialty of the therapist, more of a "ok, we can try that out if you want to", but then we didn't do it another time. Btw, I'm starting to feel like I might be taking up a lot of your time. Don't feel forced to keep responding, feel free to disengaged, as I'm sure you're a busy person too ? I'm not opposed to the idea of finding someone who focuses on such an approach, not sure if I can afford it though, which is why I'm also contemplating doing it by myself. Also I'm wondering if that process of reliving and feeling these past experiences could be facilitated by a moderate dose of a psychedelic. I just recently had some first experiences and it seemed like the drug induced stats makes it easier to connect to your emotions. What do you think?

I haven't tried these things yet, but thanks for making me aware they exist and can help. ???

It doesn't matter anyways, time is imaginary ?

Yeah, I understand, this can be difficult to understand. I can only add a little bit more context that might make it understandable, but of course I'm also interested in what you think. So you have to consider that my overall condition is just very challenging and complex in many ways. I'm chronically ill with chronic fatigue syndrome. It is medically proven that my autonomic nervous system and my brain in general have a dysfunction. This dysfunction for me has the effect that any trigger I have is about 10x more stubborn, more deeply rooted in the brain or however you want to call it. I mean, just imagine if your nervous system is so sensitive (due to a condition), that every fight or flight reaction is now 10x stronger. How would that affect you? Now, interestingly the heightened levels of stress I have due to this condition is also what contributes a lot to the perpetuation of the central dysfunction. Now add to that, that I've lost my ability to work, can't make a living anymore and depend on payments of the government. How do you think has that affected my already existing self-esteem and anxiety problems? So all of this did not only exacerbate my emotional problems with myself, it also introduced completely new stresses. E.g. in order to receive my payments I must every once in a while be "medically examined" by doctors in some agency. There they have absolutely no clue of my health condition. So now I have to think about how to convince them, which more medical reports could I gather etc. All of this brought so much stress into my life. At the worst times I was so stressed that after making myself breakfast I needed to take 30 minutes of rest before I could eat, I was completely exhausted just from cutting some fruit and putting the oats in some bowl etc. But also I just had such an enormous amount of anxieties and insecurities, it really wasn't funny at all. I feel like now I've overcome maybe 80-90 % of my emotional baggage, so there's still some work to be done, but an end is in sight. But anyway what do you think?

Still in 2023?!!? ???

Interesting! Generally, I'm not shy and can even be quite charismatic with people and be very talkative. Though, I also am dealing with some shame and guilt due to specific life circumstances. This means that I'd rather like to avoid certain topics of conversation and I can also hold myself back from talking to specific people when I think it's likely these conversation topics will come up.

Not for me, I rarely ever cry. I'm more likely to cry when watching a cute kitten or puppies video. Though in some demonstration videos I've seen that some people do cry a lot when they use the technique while thinking about events in their childhood. I might get watery eyes when I think back to a few incidents in the past, but usually not more. It's more like during the tapping I feel the exact emotion I want to work on, mostly anxiety, feelings of inadequacy, anger, stress and similar things. But then it also feels like this emotion gets defused, so it doesn't bother me anymore and overall the entire pattern is weakened in the long-term and at some point gone. Especially anger is an interesting example. You know it when something triggered you and then you could rage about it? It's so addictive to think aggressive thoughts. If I'm experiencing this I simply think my rage thoughts while using the tapping technique and then I can let go of it.

Interesting. So you made your own recordings with your voice or you found some super specific professional recordings? Yeah, I'm noticing that moving my eyes also creates a little bit of tension. Even thinking my thoughts with my inner voice does that.

@flowboy somehow my post got screwed up, so I hope you can still work with how it looks like now ? Yep. That's why I'm always like "gooosh, I thought this was it and now there's more again ?" 5 minutes ago, flowboy said: It tends to go in the order of: later childhood stuff, early childhood stuff, birth. But not always. I personally know people whose birth trauma was so intense, that they started having reliving experiences right at the beginning. Complete with their body reproducing the fluids in their nose that they were choking on, and the intense heart rate and body temperature. It's a physiological memory. Here's a video of someone having such an experience, under guidance of her husband: Me: Mind-blowing stuff. Our psyche and body are a mysterious miracle... 7 minutes ago, flowboy said: That's awesome, what techniques are you using? Me: I use emotional freedom techniques (tapping), which is what works best for me from the things I've tried. I also tried things like, well hypnotherapy, self-hypnosis and meditation in which you aim to reprogram the subconscious mind. These approaches in which you try to put something positive in your subconscious mind are fun and also beneficial for overall mood and stress levels, though they often didn't remove the traumatic things, it's more like you put something positive in your mind that kind of competes with the negative stuff. But EFT has shown to be much more effective for "deleting" things if you will. 13 minutes ago, flowboy said: I'm currently reading an account of hypnotherapy being used in combination with trauma work. This particular case was in 1851, where over a period of 11 months someone was cured of their psychosis. What they did was bring her under hypnosis, question her about the memories that still bothered her, and she'd be able to talk about them. Then she would need to go out of hypnosis in order to relive them. (because under hypnosis, conscious integration can't happen) I don't know too much about hypnosis, it seems there are many levels of it, and there's a particular level where some sort of intelligent self-diagnostic consciousness is activated and can be talked to, which knows exactly which steps need to be taken in order to heal. Me: That's all such fascinating stuff. And yes, it seems incredibly complex. Like its own world to get lost in.

Yeah, that's what I assumed too. Also, I even have a health condition with the underlying main dysfunction called "maladaptive stress response". That's when a state of stress has become the new default, which is the result of many years of chronic stress and trauma. Interestingly, when I recently had a psychedelic experience I meditated in the beginning and was still aware of that same jaw tension. Some time later, when the trip had gotten considerably deeper, I was sitting in some chair and then entered into the most relaxed state of all times. Even though my sitting position was kind of awkward (unideal posture) there was absolutely no tension left anywhere in my body, the jaw was as loose as a chewing gum, the tongue just resting on the bottom of the mouth. I didn't even know it was possible to be so relaxed.

@flowboy That's damn interesting. I'll definitely put the book on my "interesting books list" ? So we overcome our trauma backwards, starting from latest and going to earliest? I mean, I'm already working on overcoming emotions of traumatic genesis anyway and I'm making good progress, it still takes quite some time though. These traumas are things I can still remember very well though, from teenage years to adult age. Aren't these very early traumas also supposed to be revealed when you do hypnotherapy? I've had many hypnotherapy sessions, but never anything traumatic from early childhood came up, in fact, not even anything I didn't know already.

@Cathal Interesting! I'm actually trying to make all of my emotional baggage as conscious as possible and work through all of it. Though I could still see how it might be some mechanism of the body to reduce or cope with stress or maybe trauma that hasn't been processed yet. I could be completely wrong about that too, maybe it's just some random behaviour the nervous system has learnt and made into a habit. I can only say that I'm not "doing" this (kind of like I'm not doing my heartbeat) but still can repeatedly undo it when the muscles created the tension again. We'll see...