Water by the River

Very good. That is why speed of Awareness [of recknognizing each and any arising in the mindstream before it starts hypotizing oneself] is so important. When the speed (and strength, aka not getting hypnotized by core-separte-self-issues... It will throw anything at "oneself" that it has to keep the illusion going] is so important: The past is generated "on the fly", by the "modulating" Infinite Field/Mind/Being right now. There is no past besides it "self-existing"´outside if the now [the Infinite Field]. And the question if the field was ever modulated/expressed "itself" as it is imagined/modulated as "past" right now is itself filled with duality up to the brim, and less fundamental than the Infinite Field itself. Which is another mindf*** of the highest degree. The past as Schrödingers cat. Seeing this process in real-time is what reveals the properties of the Infinite Mind as "always here", or eternal, or unborn, or timeless. One True Being is literally always here. It gives a first and quite impressive taste of the immortality of True Being. That is by the way the essence of Mahamudra stage 2, Yoga of Unelaboration. Nice description for that is in Pointing out the Great Way, Brown. There are specific instructions to open up that realization, very detailed. One can have that realization (for the aficionados, a "facet") by chance, or by direct induction (which is of course more efficient). And the realization of this facet is of course, inclusive, as all really important facets are "all inclusive" with realizing ones True Being. Can wake up only once, the rest is more dream-content, no matter how fancy & extraterrestrial. Selling Water by the River

Nagarjuna arrived at the Ultimate Consclusion for the game of "making the last meters" to describing the Absolute "correctly" already some millenia ago: " Its [Absolute/Reality/True Being] character is neither existent, nor nonexistent, / Nor both existent and nonexistent, nor neither". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhyamaka IT is neither Awareness (nor anything else for that matter), nor is it not Awareness, nor both, nor neither. IT has the potential for Awareness, and that is already said too much. The ultimate "via negative": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology Nothing definitive can be said about it. Only pointers pointing as close as possible. And finally, at the last mile approaching IT, they all fail... POINTERS! Ones True Being IS it. When there is no illusion or ignorance or separation of any kind left. The answer for the Koans is a state of enlightened being and understanding. IT can understand itself. Reality can understand itself without any doubt left. One who still needs something from anything (and be it confirmation, approval, teaching, being thought, being confirmed, or anything at all, whatever its nature) beyond a mere personal preference or "hangover" from the now [mostly transcended] former separate-self personality, has some mental material floating in ones Being to look at/transcend... And not that I don't have my "hangovers", yet nowadays I mostly smile at the little bugs floating in my Being... (ah, nice try, my little lovely hangover-bug, and Trekchö/cut). At the end of the day, Reality shows exactly where the rubber hits the road: Is there still resistance to what is, aka suffering? Or dukkha (unsatisfatoryness or suffering. Resisting. That is not direct primary emotions or bodily pain, these still occur. Even feeling sad or having lost something/separation can be a "direct pain", with added psychological resistance/suffering put on top (suffering/resisting), or not. Ken Wilber: Hurts more (because added clarity), bothers you less, Reality shows where the resistance of separation/illusion (separate-self) still occurs. Brown, Pointing out the Great Way: Third, put in order all phenomena as one taste using the metaphor of water and waves. Just as water's waves have arisen from the water itself, likewise all phenomena come from the mind-itself. Understand this so as to practice in such a way that emptiness has arisen in every [seemingly manifest] aspect. Saraha says, "So long as [manifest perceptual] aspects become elaborated [aka conceptual stories/thoughts are arising and believed and not cut or seen through off in high-speed, aka keep hypnotizing oneself] from the mind[-itself], the natural mind is your teacher." Herein it is explained that every single phenomenon [appearance "outer" world, thought, feeling, anything at all arising internally in the mindstream and in the "external" vision of the world(s)] becomes the entire dharmadhatu, or that one taste manifests as many. For the practitioner who realizes this, emptiness comes forth encompassing all [phenomena of all realms and times - ET included], which is the end-state knowledge. (PK, f. 13a). [Brackets] by Selling Water at the River

The thing is, how do you ask yourself that? Obviously not with the mind, because the mind is superficial. Then, without the mind no question could be done, just a movement could be done, the movement that penetrates, that opens. If the mind is asking: what is that hears? You are going to get a mental answer Yes. Koans work "non-mental", both in working with them and answering them to a Zen Master. A mental "answer" is not an answer for a Koan. If one goes with a mental answer (instead of a "hard" Awakened Nondual, or even enlightened state in this case as an answer) to the Zen Master, one gets a no no from the Roshi. The answer is given with ones whole Being. Something along the lines as you write, the movement that penetrates, that opens. And if this Koan if applied to the very end, it can indeed "make one feel as if one has returned from the dead, and seen all Buddhas of the universe face-to-face".

... and with the right tools & techniques it doesn't need a "brutal face against the wall for 10 years concentration meditation" approach to do that/change baseline. Althought in the beginning, concentration meditation is useful. There are more sophisticated/efficient meditation systems/methods, and less sophisticated systems/methods... The less efficients ones are more robust (against erros along the path), but less efficient/slower. Shovel vs. excavator.

You are very welcome. The Tibetans know that path and these effects since centuries. It is the standard development along this path... : Two pathways of Awakened Awareness [Nondual boundless Awareness]. 1) At some point you realize that you're not operating out of an individual localized consciousness anymore but you're operating out of being the Unbounded Wholeness, a place that is no place has no location and has no reference point. [Pathway of Non-localization] 2) Or, at some point you recognizes something quite evidently distinct from Awakened Awareness to ordinary awareness it has brightness it has awakeness it has intensity it has softness it has sacredness it has sparkling immediacy [Pathway of metacognitive awareness of these attributes of Awakened Awareness to monitor if one is in this awake state or in ordinary clouded awareness] So there's something evident about Awakened Wwareness in its brightness and lucidity and its just awake. It is different from ordinary awareness So once you recognize that as something it's usually quite familiar you're recognizing and you've found your way back to your True Nature. Once you recognize that it's usually a big shift, and that is why it is linguistically marked [in the heart sutra mantra of “GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA” That that's why it's linguistically “PARASAMGATE” gone way way beyond the localization of individual consciousness in your information processing systems operation to Awakened Awareness. And it's accompanied by a huge metacognitive recognition that this is something quite different from what you usually experience “BODHI SVAHA”, ooh what a realization. So when you have that you see that you're operating out of that vast limitless ocean of brilliant Awakened Awareness Love that is your True Nature. How do you don't judge the authenticity of it it used the accompanied by moving your heart. If it's accompanied by spontaneous gratitude or devotion or compassion you're on the right track. That's the first map. If you learn something in this path that self-importance isn't terribly important. Somebody once sent me a picture. It said “I finally looked at the bigger picture in life. I wasn't in it”. Life is different when lived from Awakened [nondual] Awareness. The world gets suffused with brightness, lucidity, love, joy and bliss. You see for the first time how all these filters and lenses of the separate self literally have solidified and darkened the brightness and lucidity (nondual mere appearance, vivid, sometimes hologram-like nature) of the nondual infinite field/vastness. Mere bright appearance flowing in Infinity. That, and the bliss of True Being that starts flowing and sustains itself in these states, is what sustains Awakened Nondual States in daily life, and lets it ripen... It is a positive feedback-loop which stabilized and ripens the "baseline" of the mindstream towards nondual non-separate Boundless Infinite Awakened Awareness. The path starts shows itself to itself. Selling Water by the River

@Bazooka Jesus " Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah But what's puzzling you Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby ... I shouted out Who killed the Kennedys? When after all It was you and me ... Tell me baby, what's my name? Tell me honey, can ya guess my name? Tell me baby, what's my name? I tell you one time, you're to blame" ... So if you meet me Have some courtesy Have some sympathy, and some taste Use all your well-learned politnesse Or I'll lay your soul to waste, mm yeah " Every Lila needs light & dark, every movie its hero and villain. That would be the cosmological take. ... hm, where were we... ah, a more serious & responsible answer is probably more indicated: Wake up, clean up, grow up - Ken Wilber

Sitting next to the One Hand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bassui_Tokushō https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_hearing_this_sound%3F Poor Bassui. Guess we are not taking prisoners here, are we?

It is obviously not me asking that, but Bassui, an enlightened Zen Master of the 14th century.

Bassui: "Your persistent inquiry, “What is it that hears?” will eventually lead you to awareness of nothing but the questioning itself. You must not, however, be misled into thinking this is the subject which hears. You say that in working on this koan you feel as though you have taken hold of a sword and cut away every idea in your mind, including the impression of emptiness, and that questioning alone remains. But what is doing all this? Delve to your most inmost being and you will discover it is precisely that which hears." Test yourself with this koan: “A monk asked Joshu: “What is the meaning of Bodhidharma’s coming to China?’ Joshu replied: ‘The oak tree in the garden.’ Should this koan leave you with the slightest doubt, you need to resume questioning, “What is it that hears?” Yaeko: "Buddhas and Dharma Ancestors haven’t deceived me! I have seen my Face before my parents were born clearer than a diamond in the palm of my hand. The absolute truth of every word of the masters and the sutras has appeared before my eyes with crystal clarity. No longer have I need for dokusan, and all the koans are now like useless furniture to me." Kapleau, Three Pillars of Zen

Some proposal from the PR-department: and instead of dropping (enough) into the River, the exciting alternative plan: with an infinity of versions in store:

"Pleased to meet you Hope you guess my name But what's puzzling you Is the nature of my game"

So its Dinner for One?

don't worry... ... Rodents (singing the Heart Sutra) with style Here then, Form is no other than emptiness, Emptiness no other than form. Form is only emptiness, Emptiness only form. Feeling, thought, and choice, Consciousness itself, Are the same as THIS. Selling Water by the River

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bassui_Tokushō Bassui text above btw. is 14th century Japan. Seems that the eternal truth really does not change... Of course, not as thrilling as the latest ET, but considering that the topic is really Nothing (although a quite special & infinite Nothing"ness"), I find Bassuis letters quite inspiring.

@Bazooka Jesus

But kidding aside, this is the Zen version of the key stage from going what some call Nonduality/Buddhism/rodents to Enlightenment. Beginning Nonduality is still in the dream, a subtle self merged in unity with the visual field, exchanging the dual dream for the nondual dream. But still a dream. When this Unity-self gets thinner and thinner, more and more transcended (Thisdell stage 4 to Thisdell stage 5), then: Everything - "every vestige of self-awareness", or any subtle I-feeling/I-thought/duality (all subtle illusions) have to be seen through and transcended with automized high-speed awarenes (speed, because these illusions arise extremly fast towards the end) and familiarity (strength, because there are some very subtle "feelings" and other arisings that constitute the separate-self) with these subtle obscurations. Speed & Strength of Awareness (courtesy to Frank Yang). And that has to be done automatic, no doer/agent doing it anymore ("Nonmeditation Yoga"). And then at the end it can really break open, in a way that can't be anticipated: You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. Literally. Their essence. Before that stages, afterwards nowhere to go... Infinite Being.

Now tell me without irony that anybody really needs another WbtR Filibuster...

You must only become the question “What is this Mind?” or “What is it that hears these sounds?” When you realize this Mind you will know that it is the very source of all Buddhas and sentient beings. ... At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. Bassui. Kapleau, Three Pillars of Zen

We align here, I have written similiar things in the past. It is a matter how words are used...

Good points, and that resonates with me. One can realize what One is and what Reality is (Enlightenment), and that is final. If its not final, it was not the essence of it. Then you can have endless Awakenings in what You/True You can do (or imagine, or manifest as form). Endless, because what can be imagined and manifested is endless, Infinity upon Infinity. God herself is busy exploring that, having fun at that, and will never reach the end of it (see Cantors Set Theory, and Infinity of Infinities exist already in this universe. Which means nothing else that the larger Reality manifesting our universe is capable of an Infinity of Infinities, and therefor will never run out of realms to explore. I am absolutely not against that, its a wonderful thing to pursue the beauty of these Awakenings. But I just prefer to do that after realizing True Nature, because else it gets the usual ego-hamster-mill of pursuing experiences relieving the ego/self-contraction suffering. So its just a matter of what to do first, what to give priority before the other. Not either/or. It can even be done parallel, and normally happens this way (Awakenings/mystical experiences of all sorts before Enlightenment). Added bonus with realizing of what one really is (True You) and what Infinite Reality really is, its essence (Infinite Being and every possible appearing including ego/separate-self not happening out of it but expressed BY that Reality)... is a tremendous relief/liberation from suffering or resistance to what appears/is, and knowing what survives death (everything that is important), and what was before birth, and what can never not be there. Jesus did a good job of keeping Realization during torture (although he had a short lapse: father father why hast thou forsaken me). But of course he was Jesus. Let's put it this way: When getting tortured, better by pretty stable in Realization. On the other side, even if the self-contraction kicks in again during extreme pain, why is that so necessary? With an incarnation into physical reality, the reset button is pushed anyway for the vast majority of beings, and then hopefully their Karma brings them back. But all of that is relative show. True Being was never hurt, even if the incarnation forgets realization of True Being. And True Being has no moving parts, can never be damaged. This shift of perspective happens naturally when realizing what one is. Illusion off, illusion on, that is still on the relative level. The illusion of the separate-self never really existed (the rope was never a snake), but appeared to do say (the snake appeared and was seen). Maybe that perspective is helpful. Selling Water by the River

An Alien who tells you that this is the perfect recipe to forever chase your own tail (n+1), or endless higher "Awakenings" (and only Awakenings into ever changing form & manifestation btw., not into your eternal Nature). And being so busy doing that that you never actually look deep enough & realize what you have been before your parents were born. And more importantly, what you will still be after you die. And not just conceptual guessing or believing, but actually knowing. I mean, even our host said its endless... Endless "Awakenings" When is it enough? How many Awakenings? When are you happy & satisfied? Always right after the next Awakening. And then one more. And one more. Forever, never reaching the final Awakening. But its a free country, so...

And that is it. At the end of the day, it is all pointers, all dualities, all catergory errors. IT is neither illusion nor real, not this not that, and so on... As soon as one uses a single word to describe Reality, one is already in duality. One can only say what it is not, via negative ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology . The answer on all of these questions and points is an awakened state of being, not the latest pointer to the Absolute of the day, which are (a) all pointers and not accurate descriptions of Ultimate Reality, and (b) from an absolute perspective, all wrong (words/duality/concepts). Don't worry. Yours truly is not a fan of making the Infinite/Absolute finite...