Preetom

@Jack River You don't really need any scripture or teacher for Self-Realization aka Clear seeing. All texts are just instructing you get to this holistic clear seeing. Theoretically, it is possible to just sit and work through every single assumptions and blindspots that is preventing Clear seeing in order to reach there. But it usually is very overwhelming and thus comes all the texts and traditions with a helping hand. But that helping hand can easily turn into a hand of delusion if it not understood properly and abused, which has been happening for thousands of years

haha thanks Thought: Why is this statement true? Thought: Because I say it is! Thought: But...that sounds so hollow..and stupid Thought: Don't worry, I'll just forget that I did it (gulp) Thought: So you're saying I'm not the guilty party here? Thought: Nope. It never happened Thought: Cool! What's next?? ...... ...... ......

More like contemporary advaita people. Swamis almost never take the burden of being 'Enlightened'. But you're right I guess. Many ancient advaitic texts are nothing but declarations of the respective author/sage's own Enlightenment

Using intellectual conversations to find out the misconceptions and limits of intellect. A thorn to remove a thorn. Real inquiry begins after this.

Consider two possibilities. 1) I used a thorn to remove the thorn stuck in my skin and then let go of both of them. Then I wake up and realize that it was a dream and no actual thorn was here at all. 2) You are awake and see that there is no thorn for you. You're seeing clearly. But you also recognize that you could 'dream' about getting stuck with a thorn and thus stay alert not to fall for it. Do you see that both of these cases lead to same conclusion? A holistic clear seeing and not falling for the illusions again

but...but you were like negative 10k just yesterday Looks like those who are leeching your money, LOA is working at full force up their ass

@Serotoninluv yes I see that the distinction between knower and known must collapse as well. Let me frame in a different way. Can the Infinite appear as a finite thing in it's totality? I know this question itself must collapse as well because already it is assuming a distinction between infinte and finite. Anyway, thanks for the healthy reminder about attachment. Actually in Vendanta, it is one of the core principle that the methodology/scripture itself can never produce or reveal the Self. It is only a thorn to remove a thorn(ignorance), thus has to thrown in the end as well. I was listening to a lecture of a swami today and he mentions this through a verse which is, '' After Self-Realization, the Vedas(Knowledge) becomes the Avedas(Ignorance) ''

@winterknight I don't know if it would sound like a legit question but anyway I would appreciate it if you answer. At the moment of Self-Realization, is it kind of an inference? Like we all conventionally agree on a same, shared, external, objective world through inference, even though we have no experiential or objective proof of such a world. Or is it something so direct that it cannot be missed at all? Something which pales all other knowledge and inference..

Where is this world? Has anyone found it? Could anyone find it? So it basically seems that it doesn't really matter whether you're following a Consciousness-only model or Matter-only model. If you are consistent with either of them and take it all the way, you reach to the same conclusion: An Absolute Reality that cannot be objectified and accessed through objective manner, but yet it undoubtedly exists! Without it's existence, there cannot be any World Model existing. The materialists are not totally congruent with their own argument. Brain itself is a World Model. Why do they assume that the 'SAME WORLD' aka Absolute Reality is bound by a World Model called Brain and nervous system?

@Serotoninluv Yes any thing/dimension/activity can happen. That's very definition of absolute potentiality. But whatever that would appear, wouldn't it be 'known'? This 'knowing', without which nothing else could be, is it possible to objectify this pure 'knowing'? Wouldn't that be another phenomena known through this 'knowing'? Can any 'object' stand on it's own without the 'knowing' of it?

This is good. Thank you!

Maybe few years down the line, this present Rilles would be known as a non-existent nut...

Exactly! but how many people really wanna do that? Almost noone. Mostly we always project our own limitations and consider those limitations to be the Truth!

@Rilles I was thinking about this. The argument is either there is or isn't such a thing called an external, objective world. Do you see the magnitude and finality of such a claim? How can we come to the final Truth if our starting point is on an assumption?

That's the issue here! How can you dive into an assumed paradigm and expect to find something Truthful out of it, when you already know that this paradigm is a groundless assumption..

GOLD Now the question is, how long will materialist scientists continue to persist on their folly?

I totally understand what you're saying. I personally am not in a mission to prove or convince anyone anything. I just brought this topic up because I've been seeing this trend everywhere from this forum to any place. It's like I'm urging you constantly about showing me the favorite food of Santa Clause. There is no such thing, let alone it's favorite food How would you deal such a deluded fella?

But most people delegate that burden of proof on the nondualist teacher. ''Show me the Self like the external world, then I'll follow your teaching''- that sorta dumb argument. He doesn't consider that if he really did 'see' the Self, then there wouldn't be any brain or external world

@111111 Yeah it was a good one. A kind of visceral realization occurred during watching it. I felt the utter dryness and incapability of 'knowledge'. I realized that only direct experience can satiate this issue.

In this video, the way you framed things sounded kinda like The Absolute is like a dumb mechanical system with only an illusion of sentience/intelligence/consciousness. No matter what evolution or change or shift 'seem' to take place, ultimately nothing is happening and the Absolute remains like a dumb, dead stuff just so full of itself because there isn't anything else. I get that the distinction between mechanical and conscious will ultimately collapse. Anyway @Leo Gura my question is, do you honestly think that the full ramifications of this understanding can really be implemented equally and globally one day? I just can't imagine how could a mass, global 'transactional reality' stomach and survive this Truth realization. Also another thing is, almost all spiritual traditions lure their audience mainly through a combination of promising fantastical goodies and installing fear of the consequences of deluded actions; basically utilizing the primal pleasure-pain dynamic of human brain. But then you come in and open the whole pandora's box, revealing the utter meaninglessness and inconsequential nature of everything to mass audience. Almost all people will neglect your message immediately because it sounds so far fetched, until they suffer immensely and finally start entertaining some of these ideas. What are your thoughts on this? Is excruciating suffering and loss the only way to make the greater mass more open to this? Another thing commonly noticed that, when non dual truths are translated into mind's language, it almost always sounds ugly, self defeating and just unacceptable. What a twist! The mind itself formulates it, then itself can't stomach it! Is it a subtle mechanism of the devilry of the mind so that it can dismiss the message and bum out to avoid the process/practices?

@winterknight This is a practice related question. The self-inquiry beings as following/seeking the 'I' feeling. But after some time there comes to a point when a sort of effortless witnessing happens. There is no longer attachment to any particular object. The attention is loose...just a simple knowing of presence prevails. So at that time, is it better to stay in that relaxed witnessing mode or should I keep probing and seeking the source of this 'knowing' actively until a surrender happens on it's own? Note: In that mode, 'I' is not felt as something located anywhere particularly. Even the mind movements to seek in different directions are witnessed inside a borderless, aware presence.

well clearly something isn't working here Or else those 1000 hours ought to reap some fruit

@Dodo those 1000 hours put into ruthless self-inquiry would be a better investment. My opinion tho

LMAO

@Dodo Haha that was some sentimental stuff! You might like this one. Discusses about many objections you just pulled. Including this argument about God being a mean mofo Anyway, if you really feel like that then the wisest decision for you would be to pursue those things that you think will make you happy. You are the creator of your life and you don't need to believe in God or practice non-duality in order to be a millionaire and all that. Get all those goodies and see if it gives you the 'happiness' you are seeking. If it does, then congratulations! You've fulfilled the purpose of life. If the project fails, then you can start thinking about an alternative path.