Nemra

No. Sorry, but I cannot even prove to you what I'm trying to say because you think that I'm experiencing reality in your experience. First of all, you are experiencing reality. Notice that there's nothing out of that experience. You cannot run away from your experience, because wherever you go, the experience will be there. When you say that others are also experiencing reality, you are literally copying your sense of experiencing reality and pasting it onto others. Which hasn't been there at all, because all of those people that appear to you are in your experience.

Imagining that something has a separate consciousness is different from things being separated from each other by some boundary. When you say that something has consciousness, you literally believe that a whole reality exists in that thing, which you are not experiencing.

Please clarify.

Let's say others have consciousness. Then you would have to think that what and how you experience stuff is somewhat the same for others. Like, literally others should have an experience of reality. But the thing is that that's not happening at this moment in your experience and that you have only had your experience, and any experience you will have, only you will be conscious of. If you say to me that you are experiencing reality separate from me, and if I want to prove that you are experiencing it, then I should also make myself experience what you experience exactly; otherwise, it's not happening, and I'm just projecting my sense of experiencing reality onto you.

Yes, I'm imagining both of us having an individuated consciousness at the time that I'm speaking with you. What can I do? I'm not accustomed to it yet.

It's not that you don't have the mental ability to prove it. It's just that you will never find proof, which is the proof.

If I believe that I have a sperate consciousness existing with others, then yes. Other than that, I don't know and don't have answers. I have realized that much.

@Salvijus, individuated consciousness is imaginary because of logical necessity. You will never be able to prove the existence of other consciousnesses that other people have in your experience that you believe that they are experiencing something somewhat like you. You are projecting the sense of the consciousness that you are experiencing onto others in your experience, and then you think you have proved their separate existence in your experience by just forgetting that you have projected it from the beginning.

Other life forms having consciousnesses is what is imaginary. You still are viewing yourself as if you are in your body experiencing stuff with other life forms. I mean, I also view that way often, however, that is imaginary.

Which follows that separate consciousnesses don't exist outside if it.

Yeah, that is the problem.

No. It's about the truthfulness of the statements. You can do logic on assumptions, but that doesn't make them true.

@Salvijus, I'm saying that there hasn't been anything outside existing from your experience. Find me something that is not in your experience. Get it? If you find it, then it's in your experience.

Is that a new way to reassure yourself? Being logical isn't the problem. Not realizing is the problem. Separate conscious experiences are imaginary.

Nothing has been debubked. You don't possess consciousness in my experience. Likewise, I don't possess consciousness in your experience. You are imagining a person who is having a separate conscious experience outside of your own.

😁

Leo's joke was about saying that your imaginary non-solipsist doesn't have a mind of its own hiding behind because it is the result of your imagination, regardless of what the imaginary non-solipsist thinks about it. @Leo Gura, correct me if I am wrong.

Everything is West's fault. 😔 And if it's Western then it's fake, not natural. 😩

Again, Jews also have ancestral ties. However, I'm saying that using "ancestral ties" to defend your position is most likely nonsense. Yeah, it could work a few times, but I would not recommend relying on it unless you want to waste your life and create an identity out of it.

Nice cheap trick you did there saying things that I did not say. I wanted to show you that "ancestral ties" is BS. It's about who is living on those lands now. But, yes, I recognize that Israel has been doing shitty stuff to Palestinians than Palestinians could ever do to Israelis.

@Leo Gura, I know, thanks to you, and I agree with you. He just defends those lands as if those lands have been given to Palestinians. Zionists also think that it has been theirs. However, I understand that Palestinians have been living there for a while now, and they have been attached to those lands, which Israelis should have understood by now.

@Twentyfirst, Jews also lived in that area long ago. They also migrated and were displaced. Why wouldn't they want to go back to their ancestral land? You want "ancestral ties" to apply to Palestinians but not to Jews?

Yep. Me too.

I would never forget Copenhagen and Amsterdam. 😏 You have to be somewhat rich to have a better life in Egypt.