kbone

@Carl-Richard Purddy much, and purddy useful. But yeah, when questioning what makes up the mind-made coating with sprinkles on top of simple awareness, it's bound to come up.

@zazen An incredible region. I was fortunate to be able to see so much of the Karakorams before 9/11 after which it became more questionable to be a solo trekker. A majority of the ranges in India are not up in that area, of course, so it was pretty easy to navigate. I spent a majority of my 'domestic simplicity' stints with occasional week-long treks in the Nanda Devi region, which is a relatively undeveloped area other than the Shiva-yatri in Badrinath. The people up in the villages were just golden (at least a majority). Something about mountain villages and the people there... such simplicity, which was a big focus at that time in my life. Buenoooo.

Yeah, having spent considerable time in the various mountain ranges of that area in both countries, it's a drag to see how this is being escalated so quickly. The promoted hatred on both sides was always pretty consistent. Unfortunately, we are likely only in the opening months/years of a repetitive back and forth with very few cooler heads prevailing.

@Mannyb Very coolio. Yeah, we probably rez on a number of things, in light of what you shared. I'll try to reply more later when my brain is a bit less mush from a detail-driven day. 🦋

@Hyperion Yes, he indeed gets it. Very good vid, and he has a nicely rounded expression of what's at play. Great share.

@Hyperion So THIS is 'becoming' THIS, and memory can only describe the change of that becoming, but not what THIS already is,,, I guess is what you are saying. At least, I hope so, hehe.

What happens when the belief in 'becoming Being' is seen through for the illusion that it is? Not denied, argued against, or whatever, but seen as empty, as in "like above, so below" empty. What remains?

Most are trying to go where they can get more for 'me'. When that gets exhausted, and the me is still found wanting, speerchal stuff/desires starts to arise, balancing out all the previous pursuits. That goes on and on. With any luck, the seeker will fail in the futile search for bliss, as it seen as unnatural. With the futility, one becomes more responsible for their self-serving ways. Once the little bugger has been seen for the construct that it is, and all the conditioned behaviors that have held it in such high esteem are seen for what they are, there's a chance that the Great Letting Go happens. One may realize that they were ACTUALLY always looking for THAT which is actually 'doing' the looking. No one 'knows' what makes that finally happen, but the futility is likely the key to the doorway that leads to the Great Surrender. Tat Tvam Asi

I wasn't doubting anything with respect to abilities, but was drawing attention to the allusion of identity as was stated. I like that it alluded to the relative unimportance of self in the grand scheme of existence, but I was just stating that there is a potential to put even that largish picture into an even greater perspective (i.e., transcendent of self / Truth). Drugs might help give one a glimpse, but they are not able to do the work of actual transcendence, consolidation, and integration. Drugs are causal aspects to insights, and that's something one can do, sure. Whereas, the work brings about the clarity and sensitivity to notice what emerges in mind from THAT which is prior to mind. The realization of THAT derails the entire perspective of what one has ever known prior to it, and then realigns with the greater order.

"the fact that belonging within a community is the foundational need of the human being" - Would you agree that it is "a" foundational need, but there is/are others that may enhance an individual's (I) contributions to the group's (we)? If so, what might those others be? After all, in my experience, there are times when the 'need' to belong falls away when an inexplicable calling lures one away and into a more profound sense of existence that a/the group was either (presently) incapable or unwilling to even contemplate. Interestingly, imo, it is important to the 'larger whole or a larger set of groups' that that calling even happens and is acted upon (holonic integration/health). "My experience has been that psychology trumps biology in most cases and that we end up far more influenced by our software"- I agree with this in that mind is the filter via which biology is interpreted and influenced. What would you say is the source of psychological dis-ease with one's body/environment? I treat psychology as a 'branch of mind' that yes, does involve the neo-cortex (akin to the story of the fall from the Garden of Eden and/or dis-ease with the world as it is), rather than simply the clear perception of the bio-physico world as it is. The neo-cortex is a neo-mammalian adaptation of the limbic system that was present (or less pronounced) in the paleo-mammalian one (See MacLean's 'Triune Brain' theory stuff). So, yes, it is highly influential in the development of addictions/disorders (i.e., sex addictions, drugs, eating disorders), which one doesn't see in the animal world.

@Mannyb I wrote a few paragraphs in reply to you using the caterpillar --> cocoon -->butterfly metaphor to eventually circle back to some butterflies might resonate. I even included a few allusions to social/political stuff, just to help it rez with the thread's central subject. But for some reason, the website's system kicked me out and the message was lost. I'm quite busy today, and perhaps you are, too. But, if you wouldn't mind (and if you have time), would you be willing to write how your journey to Presence might be analogized using the same metaphor? I'm curious about how your expression might 'align' with mine, with respect to resonance. If you'd rather keep politics out of it, feel free to stick in some other thread or start a different one... it's a great metaphor, after all. 🐛Peacely 🦋

You have a very clear expression that exudes empathy and authenticity. "Mastery in the world and awakening in the soul aren’t mutually exclusive...." "To be in the world, but not necessarily of it", once realized, does make the room get brighter, don't it? 😃

Very nicely stated, and there's also the sense that comes through the expression that it is understood to BE a space that is not only immediately available, but Present. IT just HERE, prior to mind and all other appearances known as the UNIverse (one song). As has been said, "The mind is a wonderful tool, but it makes a terrible master." ❤️‍🔥

"Form is formless; formlessness is form." I get the convos on essence, and how all of the appearing stuff happens within IT as the unfolding. Pretty coolio expressions. Some will try to approach it as a 'more to get/understand' and others will try to approach it as a 'less is best' dealio, and yet others will explain it with the infinite numbers of infinities. It's an interesting state of affairs, all this appearing stuff and the universe carrying on like it is. Welp, OK, perhaps it's just that the form of this mind, born out of infinite formlessness, is just more wired for humor. Dunno. It's also wired with the glorious, spontaneous freedom to laugh at 'my' self a lot. Such a little rascal, hehe. Hopefully no harm done here, but IT is what IT is.

If we're talking about the actual speerchal search, then the cosmic joke is akin to how the cosmic game of hide-n-seek comes to an end. If we're not talking about that topic, and we're just talking about self-helping the mind feel better and betterer, then what was shared prolly comes across as condescending, completely full of 💩, and all the rest. During the search, there are times when the mind needs a bit of consolation, maybe even consolidation. That's totally understandable. It can be a slog, and we often take self and its predicament way too seriously. Don't get me wrong; for bodily survival, it's important. But, if we're seeking freedom from the limited aspects of the psychological self, we need to get brutally honest. So, in such a discussion, sometimes things are shared in earnest, that another mind might take in the complete wrong way, as one is unaware of the intent.... especially on a message board like this. I get it. After all, when in the tiger's mouth (i.e., the paradoxes of mind's conclusions becoming more and more acutely pernicious), there's not a lot of consolation that is gonna sweeten the situation. So, getting the cosmic joke is understanding how the tiger came into being, why it is so painful, how suffering happens, and so on and so forth. Realizing that one was looking for what is looking through the eyes of and prior to the thoughts/memories that constitute the false self you think you are CAN be, welp, quite funny. IT is not an entity, but a realization of a vastness that is prior to/beyond the construct of self. if this sounds like complete and utter nonsense, just let me know. I'm fine with not saying another word. I have zero need, nor any intent to be condescending or to make one another feel bad. That said, feeling down, fearful, catatonic, paralyzed, etc are all common traits of a mind in the death grips of its own making..... prior to the psychological death of self and speerchal rebirth.

When reading spiritual literature, be sure to read between the lines as much as possible, keep a box of Occam's Razors in your pocket, and wield them when necessary. You're working toward simplicity if you're truly trying to SEE what they're pointing to (at least the better readings), not collect a bunch of speerchal ideas. Using psychedelics is potentially useful, though it can often become part of an escape, rather than an aid in piercing through the veil of mind. Be clear of your intent, or clarity may not emerge from the endeavor. When's the perfect time to start proper speechuality? Too late, IT has already chosen NOW; the very question exemplifies the mind is already questioning. Someone once said, "There's no time like the present." They were right about that, hehe. May I ask why your mind is drawn to this quest at this point?

The 'bottom of the toilets of the universe' is a 'unique' perspective to hold in mind; I'll give you that. 🥴 I'd just turn the logic of the location around a bit, if ya know what I mean. But yeah, one's free to think any way they want.

We must have misunderstood the intent of each others' posts. I recognized a familiar thought pattern and simply thought you were interested in "Breakingthewall". Leaving this interaction at that...

You have a unique expression that I like. Yes, 'equality' is a value, necessarily involving mind/intellect to conjure. I'd agree that it does have a speerchal component to it, as one gets into the finer granularity of what the mind can conceive/perceive, as it necessarily involves 'otherness'. I'd add that psychology is also the domain of 'self', as in the 'false self'. The false self is an outcome of the mind's limited identification as a separate volitional person (SVP) that is separate from the Whole that simply is, prior to mind, nature, and all its percieved qualities. The realisation of falsity of self, under the scrutiny of one's highest conscious faculties where the 'speerchal' realm of expansiveness opens up, is the only true Freedom from self. After all, what is higher in equality than 'no other'.

It might be a mirror-mirror situation. It happens.

You can never leave the absolute perspective, and the limited perspective is what is being dreamt (in/via mind) and accepted as limiting 'your' perspective as a 'short-sighted slave who lives wallowing in the mud of his mind'. Pay attention; you're wallowing in mind. But on the bright side, your mind is right (i.e., knows it is lying to itself). The 'absolutely depressing' phase is just that, a phase in the waking up from being trapped on stage, wallowing in mind, and it's natural. That phase, too, will not last. You want clarity on how/why all this is happening. It's about waking up to the irony of one's conditioned thought patterns. The noticing can start to give rise gentle smiles, as the cosmic joke is revealed.

Yes, what's appearing is what's happening in front of/as/within this NOTHING which is prior to mind. It's a trans-rational simplicity that boggles the mind, because, welp, it's trans-rational, so words will never fully explain it. Words can be weird things; once stated, they're likely to hit anything. 'Tis a good show, and as you know, it sometimes 'feels better' to just not engage the thought structure that 'tries' to give the realization substance, when it is actually the other way around. Nothing wrong with having fun with it, though! Right?!?!

There is NOTHING. IT touches mind, and in utter simplicity, there's a sense of oneness as expanse. IT touches the intellect (the bifurcator), there's a sense of two/otherness. Throw in a heaping dose of memory, and spin up the bifurcator, and you get the 10,000 thingies with all kinds of causes and effects.

Could be a good sign that you are stirring in your sleep, possibly on the verge of waking up. Many folks don't realize that such 'negativity' is actually part of the process. I'm not saying you're one of them, just speculating without sugarcoating it.