kbone

@TheGod She may be using such terms to distinguish some flavors of how/why people search, but without acknowledging that any honest 'path' is about transcending AND including, much like the 10th Oxherding dealio. As such, once her rendition of such a "Masculine Path" is realized, impermanent appearances can be embraced, played with, experienced fully, enjoyed, etc without all the baggage born of ignorance that gives rise to suffering. That, I guess, is what she means by "Feminine Path". Could be wrong... After all, what are such 'illusions' when seen for what they are...

@eliasvelez He was a VERY cool, dude. He exhibited a rare humbleness. His physical presence will be missed, but the spirit of his expression in the world will live on.

The problem is that the region lived as an integrated whole for thousands of years until the partition in '48. Sure, there have always been attitudinal differences, but they were worked out as communities, again, have done for thousands of years. The division along geographical lines were mangled and of course that was turned into an all out 'reason' to hate and be bitter towards one another. Now, there's religious fervor and strong tools for psychological manipulation on populations still struggling with varying degrees of basic survival and upward mobility. We have a far-right BJP, heavily influenced by the Hindutva, firmly in power in India, and a Pakistan bordered by a war-ravaged and failed state of Afghanistan and an Iran with a religio-political leadership that seems bent of antagonism of anyone they can. Then, there is the one border crossing with China, who is now all but given up on its 'investment' in Pakistan due to the current turmoil. That said, they likely won't pass on creating difficulties with India as they still have border disputes to contend with there, as well. None of this, really, has a lot to do with the people of those countries, some of which ate the coolest, most down-to-earth and most memorable I've ever met (that goes for India and Pakistan, as well). The type of Islam that prevails in Pakistan has nothing to do with Wahhabism. I think you would know that. Other than in areas closer to the border with Afghanistan up near and north of Pashtun/Khyber/Peshawar and in the Balochistan (also bordering Iran), 80% of the people I met were mostly quite moderate, and were not all that impressed by such deeply fundamental sects like Wahhabism, even considering them 'foreign' to them. While the corruption at the top of political life allows for extremist elements and ideological thinking/activity, there will always be a need for a public enemy that can be used to rally support and blind the masses. Most of this recent blow up is based on scoring political points and may/likely pushes the region to more ongoing brinkmanship that a MASSIVE majority of people on both sides will suffer from. Meanwhile, the corruption, human rights abuses, and blame run free... perhaps will small incremental changes toward 'better'. India is the most powerful country in that sub-continental region, but they tend to squander the power in expressions of mite, rather than lead by example. That's likely because in recent decades, India has started to come into their own, yet have not quite found their footing as leaders. That is, I do think that Indian leaders could be a better force for the 'good' than what they have shown the world thus far. It's complex stuff, to be sure. Having spent 5-6 years in South Asia, that's my 2 rupees on the situation. Jai Ram and Insh'Allah it works out. I love that region of the world, and wouldn't mind even retiring there someday. It will always have a place in my heart.

@Davino Thanks for taking the time. I don't know that many of the posters here and I see you pop up quite a bit as a moderator, so I was wondering your take. You've explained it well. Would you say that the POV presented is one based on Realization, or a conclusion based on evidence, perhaps from even mind blowing experiences. I'm not being picky or proddy, just curious. In your latter post, I rez with most of what you say, but might just express it in a similar-but-different way. For example, I might express it without ideas of reuniting anything. That is, ALL appears in/as the movement within NOTHING/Stillness, and the mind, the bifurcator, is part of that movement. NOTHING is unexplainable. Everything is a mystery. Coolio.

@zazen Aces. Thanks a lot for helping verify that it's not verified, hehe. Yeah, once these hyper-iased counter-narratives start to roll, it's hard to keep up. I'm with the kid, and yes, it's nice to see someone that young taking a balanced view. And Bihar is renown for being one of the poorer per capita states (if not THE poorest) in India, so it's great to see a sharp young'un from there not taking too much of the bait. Thanks again, good sir.

@zazen If you have time today, could you find if there's actual validity to the Kirana Hills nuclear leak? -TIA

@Davino Having read in your signature "In this steady life GOD is available; via 5-MeO-DMT", would you say that "GOD is available" prior to taking 5-MeO-DMT and THEN experiencing its causal effects on the mind's perceptions? I'm curious about your distinction between Truth (eternal/timeless, infinite/acausal, etc) and experiencer/experience (time bound, dependent on mind).

@PolyPeter With respect to Truth, how would you go about facilitating/explaining/teaching/promoting being prone to... futility to 'another mind'? Real question, I'm curious. I've found that every mind goes through the night and gets the wake up call in a different way, sometimes radically different. And then, once the awakening has happened (IF it has indeed happened), all kinds of strange and odd things are exhibited as 'their mind' comes to terms with what ACTUALLY being awake is. This is often the case with folks who rely on psychedelic experiences too much to inform their clarity. That is, it's not so much about experiences, but about how the Realization informs the mind, and there is a substantial distinction. There's often a tendency for the mind (as an unconscious momentum of sorts) to want to 'get/take credit for' or 'take control of' the Realization, so to speak,,, at which point, they may be in the process of, or, they've already 'fallen back into the dream'.... unable to discern being awake IN the dream or FROM the dream. Convos on whether or not that phenomena is at play have a tendency to get a little uumm, feisty, if ya know what I mean, hehe.

@Basman Sure, if we're talking about stereotypes, one could say the quality of education is sub-optimal in most cases. I've seen some more optimal outcomes and many sub-optimal cases, though a lot of it seems to be the dance that is typically required of the teachers, the students/parents, and how the system tests for 'mastery'. And, of course, there's typically a large disparity between public and private schools. As for controlling oneself for biases, yeah, there can be a purddy strong pull towards being opinionated in the realm of social discourse, in general. Some people are more well versed in scientific rigor and may only stick to facts, in which they can come across as cold and/or unwilling to enter into simply 'opinionated' debates. Others may be unconsciously following unwritten 'rules' of social discourse in which one is taught to not discuss religion/deeply held beliefs with people they don't know (that might include speerchuality). Yet others, might be quite open to such discussions, have very little rigor with respect to their own cherished beliefs, be confrontational toward 'facts', and be very unaware that they, like everyone else, have their own opinions and experiences from/through which they are interacting. I do see that on occasion, and once I get a whiff of it, I smile inwardly or outwardly, poke around a bit on perceived edges, see what becomes of the convo, and may or may not bow out altogether. No biggie. I tend away from unchecked stereotypes when talking about cultures involving millions of people, especially ones comprised of multi-national and/or multi-cultural constituents. It helps keep the mind's biases in check as one comes more 'naked' to the interaction. It's more like a curiosity, rather than a judging, pegging, and an eventual evaluation, which may come later, but usually in introspection.

@Javfly33 Start with "I don't know mind". Presently, it seems to be making assumptions where it finds a rub, and then making conclusions (structure of beliefs). Perhaps, go wash the dishes or sweep the floor. When there's a tough spot or accumulated dust bunnies, take action; that much the mind can do... and who knows, maybe a coolio insight bubbles up and the whole rub becomes moot. But in Truth seeking, the mind will give way, fall to its knees, and be filled in the surrender. Only then does Truth/Nothing begin to inform mind, and all such assumptions/conclusions/beliefs begin to fall away, almost automagically. Take it easy. You're prolly just fine, and it's the mind-structure/self that is having a problematic episode. Happens all the time. Stand up, dust off, ...forward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRG3R2FmGlY

@Basman Puritanical tendencies likely persist in US culture via values like self-reliance, moral rigor, and a strong sense of community that is often rooted in religious beliefs and the subsequent moral compass. So yeah, they often come across as thinking they know it all or are in the right (i.e., so competing ideas must be defeated), hehe. These values have been secularized and adapted from perhaps their Puritan roots, influencing American social and political life to this day. Interestingly, the individual achievement born of the sub-structure of such beliefs provides the basis for the resistance to social change that challenges the aforementioned established value system, which often take odd forms, to be sure. All-in-all, culture changes quite slowly anywhere you go, and each have their own unique stylistic tendencies that must be negotiated in one's mind if one travels to or live within it. That's kinda snorta wat the 'culture shock' models refer to when talking about adaptation. But, yes, ANY large group of 'others' with highly salient cultural features can be annoying, hehe. It's just how mind works: point of views congeal, preferences take form, arguments/blame arise, things are taken to the Nth degree, etc etc.

@Carl-Richard Purddy much, and purddy useful. But yeah, when questioning what makes up the mind-made coating with sprinkles on top of simple awareness, it's bound to come up.

@zazen An incredible region. I was fortunate to be able to see so much of the Karakorams before 9/11 after which it became more questionable to be a solo trekker. A majority of the ranges in India are not up in that area, of course, so it was pretty easy to navigate. I spent a majority of my 'domestic simplicity' stints with occasional week-long treks in the Nanda Devi region, which is a relatively undeveloped area other than the Shiva-yatri in Badrinath. The people up in the villages were just golden (at least a majority). Something about mountain villages and the people there... such simplicity, which was a big focus at that time in my life. Buenoooo.

Yeah, having spent considerable time in the various mountain ranges of that area in both countries, it's a drag to see how this is being escalated so quickly. The promoted hatred on both sides was always pretty consistent. Unfortunately, we are likely only in the opening months/years of a repetitive back and forth with very few cooler heads prevailing.

@Mannyb Very coolio. Yeah, we probably rez on a number of things, in light of what you shared. I'll try to reply more later when my brain is a bit less mush from a detail-driven day. 🦋

@Hyperion Yes, he indeed gets it. Very good vid, and he has a nicely rounded expression of what's at play. Great share.

@Hyperion So THIS is 'becoming' THIS, and memory can only describe the change of that becoming, but not what THIS already is,,, I guess is what you are saying. At least, I hope so, hehe.

What happens when the belief in 'becoming Being' is seen through for the illusion that it is? Not denied, argued against, or whatever, but seen as empty, as in "like above, so below" empty. What remains?

Most are trying to go where they can get more for 'me'. When that gets exhausted, and the me is still found wanting, speerchal stuff/desires starts to arise, balancing out all the previous pursuits. That goes on and on. With any luck, the seeker will fail in the futile search for bliss, as it seen as unnatural. With the futility, one becomes more responsible for their self-serving ways. Once the little bugger has been seen for the construct that it is, and all the conditioned behaviors that have held it in such high esteem are seen for what they are, there's a chance that the Great Letting Go happens. One may realize that they were ACTUALLY always looking for THAT which is actually 'doing' the looking. No one 'knows' what makes that finally happen, but the futility is likely the key to the doorway that leads to the Great Surrender. Tat Tvam Asi

I wasn't doubting anything with respect to abilities, but was drawing attention to the allusion of identity as was stated. I like that it alluded to the relative unimportance of self in the grand scheme of existence, but I was just stating that there is a potential to put even that largish picture into an even greater perspective (i.e., transcendent of self / Truth). Drugs might help give one a glimpse, but they are not able to do the work of actual transcendence, consolidation, and integration. Drugs are causal aspects to insights, and that's something one can do, sure. Whereas, the work brings about the clarity and sensitivity to notice what emerges in mind from THAT which is prior to mind. The realization of THAT derails the entire perspective of what one has ever known prior to it, and then realigns with the greater order.

"the fact that belonging within a community is the foundational need of the human being" - Would you agree that it is "a" foundational need, but there is/are others that may enhance an individual's (I) contributions to the group's (we)? If so, what might those others be? After all, in my experience, there are times when the 'need' to belong falls away when an inexplicable calling lures one away and into a more profound sense of existence that a/the group was either (presently) incapable or unwilling to even contemplate. Interestingly, imo, it is important to the 'larger whole or a larger set of groups' that that calling even happens and is acted upon (holonic integration/health). "My experience has been that psychology trumps biology in most cases and that we end up far more influenced by our software"- I agree with this in that mind is the filter via which biology is interpreted and influenced. What would you say is the source of psychological dis-ease with one's body/environment? I treat psychology as a 'branch of mind' that yes, does involve the neo-cortex (akin to the story of the fall from the Garden of Eden and/or dis-ease with the world as it is), rather than simply the clear perception of the bio-physico world as it is. The neo-cortex is a neo-mammalian adaptation of the limbic system that was present (or less pronounced) in the paleo-mammalian one (See MacLean's 'Triune Brain' theory stuff). So, yes, it is highly influential in the development of addictions/disorders (i.e., sex addictions, drugs, eating disorders), which one doesn't see in the animal world.

@Mannyb I wrote a few paragraphs in reply to you using the caterpillar --> cocoon -->butterfly metaphor to eventually circle back to some butterflies might resonate. I even included a few allusions to social/political stuff, just to help it rez with the thread's central subject. But for some reason, the website's system kicked me out and the message was lost. I'm quite busy today, and perhaps you are, too. But, if you wouldn't mind (and if you have time), would you be willing to write how your journey to Presence might be analogized using the same metaphor? I'm curious about how your expression might 'align' with mine, with respect to resonance. If you'd rather keep politics out of it, feel free to stick in some other thread or start a different one... it's a great metaphor, after all. 🐛Peacely 🦋

You have a very clear expression that exudes empathy and authenticity. "Mastery in the world and awakening in the soul aren’t mutually exclusive...." "To be in the world, but not necessarily of it", once realized, does make the room get brighter, don't it? 😃

Very nicely stated, and there's also the sense that comes through the expression that it is understood to BE a space that is not only immediately available, but Present. IT just HERE, prior to mind and all other appearances known as the UNIverse (one song). As has been said, "The mind is a wonderful tool, but it makes a terrible master." ❤️‍🔥