DocWatts

@Keyhole I'm as disgusted and horrified by Trump as anyone you'll find, but would you say that wishing death upon even objectively horrible people is a sign of a virtuous character? Maybe it would be objectively better if Trump does pass away, but the death of another person isn't something to take pleasure in. Ends justify the means can be a slippery slope...

Don't be the Left leaning version of someone who fantasizes about horrible things happening to criminals (and make no mistake about it, Trump is a criminal). Not because you own him anything or he's deserving of pity (he's not), but because because engaging in this sort of behavior makes you a worse person.

This is a question that's come up as I've pondered on the peculiarities of the American two party political system. While corruption is endemic in the system with both parties complicit to varying degrees, the Republican Party has been rotting from within for several decades now, to the point where it has to use Authoritarian tactics to win elections because it has literally nothing of value to offer for the vast majority of ordinary people. With that as my frame of reference, I'm genuinely curious as to what a more reasonable and relatively healthy Conservative political party would look like in a functional Democracy. With as big and diverse of a country as America is, I've long since made peace with the fact that Conservative political parties are a legitimate part of a representative system; so if they are going to exist, I would much rather they be a relatively healthy form of conservatism and not antithetical to democratic norms and institutions.

By healthy I mean that they should be able to exist in a pluralistic political system in a non-destructive way; 'successful' authoritarianism of the kind you mention would be antithetical to this. Fact of the matter is that Conservatives are going to exist in most societies, so how does a democracy integrate thier political interests in a way that's fair while also not being damaging to everyone else in the society (as I'd argue the Republican party has become damaged over the last several decades, as an instrument for the corrupt to loot the rest of the society). And as long as Conservative parties are going to exist, wouldn't it be better for everyone if it were version of Conservatism that is able integrate in a healthy way with the rest of society? I wonder if part of the problem we're seeing is that Conservatives don't really have any version of this to latch on to in America.

Covid has something like a %1 to %5 mortality rate , whereas something like the flu has closer to a %0.1 mortality rate. But considering that he's one of the most priveledged people in the country, his chances of surviving are going to be much higher than a poor or working class person without the means to get treatment from our pay-to-access Health Care system.

No offense, but these are all Conservative rather than Moderate talking points. Whole point of the post though is that we would want a healthy political party to represent Conservatives, just like we would want a healthy political party for Progressives. The endemic corruption of Trump (though not limited to him) isn't good for anyone. I'm also happy to give due credit to Republicans who've been willing to stand up to Trump, rare as they may be (Romney marching to protest police brutality and racism comes to mind). We need more politicians with Integrity on all sides.

Hard to argue that the Trump administration is anything other than a Kleptocracy.

I've got nothing but respect for Christians I know who actually practice what they preach, and have been able to integrate that in a healthy way with the modern secular world. Not sure if anyone else is friends with left leaning progressive Christians, or if that's a bit of an anomaly in the current climate.

The former mayor of Detroit, Kwame Kilpatrick, actually ended up serving time in prison for his crimes while in office. So it doesn't strike me as impossible, just really unlikely in Trump's case, since Kwame wasn't a multi millionaire like Trump is (despite the fact that he's likely broke, I have no doubt he still has formidable resources at his disposal to fight a prosecution).

So what are the chances that if Trump survives this and goes on to lose the election that he actually gets prosecuted for his numerous crimes? One in ten? One in a thousand?

Her nickname here is 'Big Gretch'

That's quite insightful, and probably one of the better arguments as to how Conservatives can serve a useful and necessary role (as opposed to just holding society back, as it can appear sometimes). Actually these are all great points, and it's really unfortunate that there's not a viable non-destructive political party which represents these values in the US. The way things stand, with the Republican party appealing primarily to wealthy people and whites that harbor some sort of racial resentment, I don't see how it will be able to win elections as demographic changes render thier voting base smaller and smaller. Hopefully something better can eventually take its place, and it won't have to rely on Voter Suppression to win elections for it to be able to push an unpopular agenda on the country.

Even though she wasn't my preferred candidate in the primary, she's impressed me with how competently her administration's response to the pandemic was. I'm more than happy to cast my vote for someone who's competent and reasonable considering the state the country is in right now. Plus she seems like a decent person.

Not true; a vocal minority despises her, the rest of us are grateful to have someone reasonably competent in charge during a pandemic.

Speaking of Texas... 'Texas governor to close mail-in ballot drop-off boxes, limiting one per county' https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/texas-mail-ballot-drop-vote-2020-election-b744020.html

So I don't know if it counts as a full on existential crisis, but I found Peter Singer's argument that people living in wealthy nations have a Moral Obligation to help people living in less developed parts of the World to be really compelling; so much that I feel it is unethical to not give at least some portion of your income to charitable causes if you're fortunate enough to be a middle class person living in a developed nation. Also helped me put my own privilege in to perspective, and to reframe the way I think about my obligations to other people.

Library of Congress video discussing the implications for humanity if and when life is discovered beyond Earth (seems relevant with the recent discovery of possible bio signatures for microbial life being discovered in the atmosphere of Venus).

Dwight Eisenhower also comes to mind as a highly principled Blue political leader (CIA shenanigans during the Cold War not withstanding).

I forget whether this was posted in here, so feel free to remove if this is a duplicate post. But this video does a great job at pointing out how Hank Hill is a nuanced and largely positive portrayal of Blue, as he's someone who tries to live by his values, and is even capable of accepting other viewpoints if he feels its coming from a place of integrity.

Also the ability deconstruct ideas and concepts, as well of an awareness of Social Constructs generally begin at Green; both of which are necessary for an understanding of the Systems Thinking that Yellow employs.

For an example a bit closer to home, this article brings up an interesting case to expand Voting Rights to people under the age of 18. https://www.vox.com/2015/11/28/9770928/voting-rights-for-kids

Awesome, thanks!

I also think that if a compelling argument isn't made as to why politics is relevant to someone's day to day life, the default position is to treat politics as an abstract notion that they pay attention to once every four years, then forget about for the times in between.

"What's going on right now isn't normal" is a mantra everyone should be repeating to themselves right now. I think of people like my grandparents, who are sweet lovely people, but think Trump is off putting because he's a loudmouth who insults people, and not because he's a authoritarian con man who's looting the country and causing long term damage to democratic institutions.