The0Self

Not even an experience, but a being. If in enlightenment there is any notion of having gained anything, there’s still further, but who wants cosmic suicide? ?

This. It's hidden when you look for it. It didn't come, it never goes. You are plants, dogs, trees, as much as you are your self -- that is to say, not at all. This has no separation. It's nothing being everything. No one can know it though. It's indescribable.

Though it could be said: there are no enlightened people... There isn't anyone. This is just what it is. All intention is illusory. All expectation is illusory. Others are illusory. Reality is illusory. This is natural perfection. It never started and never ends.

There is no such thing. It's all there is. But yeah everyone wants it and gets it. Already. So nobody gets it.

There already is no dream, though. This is death. This is Heaven. It's not somewhere else. No one is in Heaven, though. There just is Heaven.

It's like the universe is an infinite timeless funnel/maelstrom with apparent perspectives and no real perspective, making the perfect timeless playground for no one. And absolutely no separation. It's everything. Biologists studying cells are exploring a mystery that they are not separate from -- not one bit. This wholeness/no-thing doesn't even move. However, there's absolutely no sense of having gained anything. A pointer that is not true but can open up a similar perspective (though not really) is to imagine technology advances so much in the future that we realize we have to make time machines to produce the universe in the first place. That's not what happens, but it's like that -- empty.

Everything is nothing without me.

Well, ultimately, you're not wrong. We're talking about the infinite, which is beyond consciousness, so yeah there's no end to what can be known, meaning everything is ultimately unknowable (I mean...there's no end, so how could it be?).

@Regan Not to mention even if one could be self-aware of every thing, that still overlooks everything unknowable. So yeah the absolute goes beyond even itself. It is ultimately inscrutable, but that's why God-realization has no end point. A true God-realization will seem total every time even though it keeps getting more total, since infinity goes beyond itself, and God understands reality into existence by knowing the unknowable -- so each time it gets more total, it actually is total every time. It's a bit of a paradox.

Because there's no real you? That which could be called true self is not a self at all, it's no-thing everything'ing. No separation or other.

@machiavelli It doesn't ultimately matter to God, since God is murder, love, rape, community service, aid, strife, peace, and everything else. Ultimately nothing matters. How could it? Who, outside of all there is, could it possibly matter to? This of course means that even "things mattering" doesn't matter / is not denied. There is just ultimate liberation. Nonduality cares not, but also judges not.

I have similar realization. If you could, maybe tell me if you think I don't have this correctly; at least the part I can put into words, which is of course very little: I, the (completely) detached ego (imagined subject so that there can be object) (God; reality), understand the universe (reality) into existence, timelessly. I do this by using infinite intelligence to imagine "sense" out of the unknowable, which is absolutely everything, which is not a thing in itself, and is thus empty of any real meaning whatsoever. And this results in an apparent system that is infinitely interdependent and literally could not be made better, as there's nothing else. And the actuality of all this is 100% selfless, with no separation. The reason I did this is no reason at all, because I have no self nature at all; there is only infinity, and this Heaven all appears to happen for nothing (total selflessness) -- judging and caring are 2 sides of the same coin, and illusory, between which is no one, and unconditional love, which is all there is. This understanding is almost dumb-obvious for me, but I haven't been doing this work as long as you (though I do it basically constantly), so maybe you can tell me what's beyond that (basics, anyway) if there is anything (understanding-wise).

Figured it was implied that “you” obviously refers to the false self. It shouldn’t have been misleading at all if understood correctly.

Thank you! Btw, you won’t believe it, but if you knew what liberation was like, you would not choose it — and you will not be the exception to that rule No need to let that scare you though! It’s simpler than you’d think. You can’t imagine what it’s like — simply because it’s what’s already happening.

? unfortunate username too. Mine, I mean

^^ However I still recognize that as the realization of cosmic oneness. Generally requires psychedelics ime. However unconditional love realization is not that — it’s the recognition that dissolves the individual completely so there is no one, and therefore one else to care about, judge, or to be unified with.

Yeah, you’re right. I thought I referred to Metta as love though. The pure love “emotion.” Feels more wholesome than an emotion imo

Those are all the same. “We” and oneness implies love or Metta. Unconditional love is completely different though because even though it judges even less than conditioned love, it also doesn’t care, because there’s no one else to care about. It’s beyond oneness.

I just assumed they meant upwelling feelings of kindness. The problem is that’s love in only one direction. There’s another kind of love out there. Far stronger. Caring and judging are two sides of the same coin — the most powerful, non-judgemental, unconditional love, does not care about anyone at all. Btw, it’s the one insight a person can’t survive — the degree to which it is understood is the exact degree to which there is no one.

All the time. Chest, face, sometimes hands, mostly not in any particular way besides an obvious in-the-air intuition that it’s all love anyway.

Yeah there can seem to be a resonance right in the so-called gap between each of: certainty-doubt, safety-danger, intention-expectation, judgement-caring. Because that's where it's obvious no one is, and there is no one. It's the place where you've never been certain nor doubtful; felt safe nor in danger; intended nor expected anything; judged nor cared -- that "place" is all there is. It's everything, or what apparently happens.

This one appears to get it. No one actually gets it. There is no one.

Well of course, you won't ever "be there." The recognition is that there's nobody to wake up. There's a false claim that someone needs to know something, so it appears someone is trying to know something -- there is neither someone nor something really happening. The aforementioned experience is what appears to happen, but it doesn't actually happen. As long as there's experience it seems like there's something happening. This is liberation for no one. This. There is nothing else.

That's easy: if what's happening is the experience that you are real, you will "have needs."

That's true, it can be a distraction thinking that the truth is not lost, but ultimately... It's actually true. This is the absolute. Not that amazing realizations can't seem to take place. It's just that, that does not need to happen "in order for" (the great delusion) ultimate liberation to be what it already is: ALL there is.