Tristan12

Yeah I'm not asking about this for anything related to suicide. It's for progressing my spiritual development, and healing. If I totally surrender (on 5-MeO-DMT for example) and reach ego death, is there any possibility that I could reach some deeply painful state that I could not get out of? You said that you would reach infinite love, but is there a possibility of going anywhere else? I'd imagine there are plenty of experiences that can be had beyond ego death. What about insanity for example? I've heard people talk about experiencing that on psychedelics and it's terrifying. If I totally surrender, could I fall into that and not be able to get myself out? I have also heard that on the other side of ego death, there is no fear, because you're dead, so maybe there would be nothing to worry about.

Thanks for the advice, but it doesn't really give me assurance that I would be okay on the other side of full surrender. I think it can be a good strategy to deal with negative thought spirals though

@Leo Gura @Inliytened1 Can you or anyone else help me out with this? I am working on getting better at surrendering because I can tell it is something I need to learn how to do at this point. When I did 5-MeO-DMT the other day, I was trying to surrender deeper, and I was getting better at it, but the main fear that I have is that if I totally let go of control, 100%, and merge with the universe, then I could end up in some painful hell realm, and not have any control to be able to get myself out of it. What would you say in response to this? I want to hear from someone who has gone through ego death and been on the other side of full surrender, to know if I really have anything to worry about by letting go completely.

I have been going through this hell for almost 8 years, and I haven't been seriously suicidal until the last 2 years or so. So I have fought hard to change my situation for years. But eventually, as time passes, the suffering gets deeper, nothing you do works to change your situation, you naturally become suicidal, because that feels like the only way out. It doesn't matter, I don't want to talk about it. You're entitled to your own opinion. I'm just saying it's not helpful to me, but thanks for trying

Thank you, I appreciate it

This is not tough love, this is ignorance and delusion. You're lucky I'm used to people saying these kinds of things to me and it doesn't bother me anymore, because a comment like this could easily push a suicidal person over the edge.

It's interesting you say that, because I've noticed in moments when I've come really close to killing myself, when I'm actually about to take action and do it, I don't really want to. In that moment I can see that all of this talk of wanting to kill myself is just mental chatter and a mind game. I am obsessed with the idea of killing myself because it feels like the only way I can have control over the amount of pain I'm in, and the only way I can get relief, but when I actually am about to do it, I don't really want to end my life. My suicidal thoughts are just a coping strategy. All of this suicidal ideation is just the ego panicking and freaking out, but beneath the ego, my being does not have a problem with life and is totally on board with it. When I start to really consider killing myself, the way I feel is that it's so obvious that everything I'm going through is happening for a reason, I am on a journey towards truth and love, and so of course I need to keep going and there is no way I could kill myself. I also feel like there is still so much more I could do to resolve my situation, and I wouldn't really have a reason to kill myself unless I was utterly trapped in my suffering with no possible way out. I also have so much potential for what I could do with my life. I can't throw all of that away. My mind starts pointing out all of that to me when I get close to killing myself. I try not to think about those things and shut out those thoughts, but it just doesn't work. My intuition that this is all happening for a reason and I need to keep going is so strong and overbearing that I physically cannot get past it. I remember I had this moment I think about 6 weeks ago, I was driving, listening to music, and I entered this altered state of consciousness where I lost touch with my human self, and I felt like I was embodying existential love. From this perspective, it felt like my passion and love for life was at an all time high. The suffering I go through makes no difference to this part of me, if anything it just makes it fall deeper in love. No matter how much I get the shit kicked out of me by life, this part of me is deeply, endlessly, passionately in love. The love and passion just courses through my veins, and I am happy as ever. It's clear that all of this suffering I've been through is just my ego getting killed off so that my higher self can come through me. Of course I will kick and scream and talk about how much I hate life and how much I want to kill myself, but in reality, I am at no risk of harming myself, because deep down, my heart is madly, truly, endlessly in love, and I am not going anywhere. From what I said in the original post in this thread, I really feel like I am getting close to the point where all of this hell will finally be over, and my human self will fall away. So I think I am almost done. I need to follow my heart, follow my intuition, follow what my connection to existential love tells me to do. That is the only thing that matters. There is no need for therapy, no need for SSRIs, no need to play it safe or choose the sensible option. Following my heart is the only thing that matters, and that is the only thing I will do.

Thank you. Yeah it is annoying, but I've been dealing with it for years so I am used to it at this point. I haven't been through any overt abuse in my life, and the traumas that I've been through don't seem like they would be that difficult, so it's always been very difficult to get people to understand how much pain I'm in. My pain is still as deep and real as I say it is whether people believe it or not. I walk this path alone, and my connection to existential love/my higher self makes me feel that there is something that truly knows and understands me, and so it doesn't matter if other people understand or care about my situation or not. When I connect with existential love, I am met with more compassion and understanding than any human could ever give me. I appreciate when people can be understanding and empathetic towards me as well, but it's not a big deal if they're not.

You clearly don't understand just how severe mental health issues can get. My condition is really deep and complex, it's hard to explain and understand. Ultimately everything was caused by trauma, and it has deepened and worsened a lot over the years.

You're right, I don't know, it's just a guess, but I am still confident in that guess. The only reason I'm alive is because I'm unable to kill myself. I constantly wish I was dead and I would have killed myself a long time ago if I was able to. Starving people in Africa continue to live their lives, reproduce and have families and everything. Of course like you said I know nothing about their situation and so I am just speculating, but if all of those people where in so much pain that they were as suicidal as I am, wouldn't they all have killed themselves by now? The pain has been bad for them, but not bad enough to push out every single little desire for life and survival, the way it has for me. The fact that starving people in Africa, people in war torn countries, people who have lost limbs, the fact that they don't all kill themselves any chance they get makes me feel like they haven't suffered as deeply as I have. As I said, I'm not depressed, so I'm not suicidal just from an innate sense of hopelessness and meaninglessness. I'm a strong person, I'm very passionate about life, I've wanted to be alive and do something great with my life, but I have been crushed and destroyed sheerly from extreme levels of suffering for such a long amount of time. How could all these people have endured more suffering than me and still go on to live their lives? So people on this forum shouldn't compare other people's suffering to mine, saying other people have it worse than me, because they haven't lived my life and they don't know what I've experienced

Dude, with all due respect, you know nothing about my situation. First of all, I don't have depression, and second of all, you have no idea how deep the pain I've been through is. You don't know what that pain does to a person. I could care less about being a loser, about being a coward, about disappointing and hurting people from my death, even about doing what is morally right. The pain gets so bad and so deep, goes on for so long and is so endless, that I get into situations where I would do whatever I possibly can to end my life and escape it, no matter the consequences. I certainly don't care about being a loser just because I killed myself. lol. I have developed such a deep, seething hatred for human life. It's like my body shakes in anger and disgust at this life. That's great if you can manage to be happy in a difficult situation, but I can't do that, and it's abusive to myself to expect myself to do that. I would go insane trying to make myself be happy while going through what I am. I’ve always been super passionate about life and wanted to make something amazing out of it, I’m strong and willing to take on challenge and difficulty, it takes A LOT to make me want to kill myself and give up on life, and yet I have been ground to a pulp and gotten to a point where I am on my knees begging for mercy, begging for this life to be over. I firmly believe that if all of my mental health issues were gone and I became a starving child in Africa, or was placed in a war-torn country, or was in a hospital with missing limbs or burn injuries, I really believe I would be suffering less than I am now. You can’t tell me that plenty of people have it worse than me and would want to trade places with me. Who would trade places with someone who wants to be dead more than anything? Someone who is desperately clawing at the walls of life, begging it to stop, begging for it to be over, balling their eyes out, begging for the pain to end. This has been going on for almost 8 years now. The only reason I am alive is because I am physically unable to kill myself, certainly not because I want to be alive. You'd be an idiot to think your life would be better trading places with someone like that, and telling me to cheer up and be happy because plenty of people have it worse than me is both incorrect, and only makes me feel worse. So no, people in hospitals with missing limbs and burn injuries would not give everything to be in my position. I'm sure you meant well with your response, but I completely disagree with what you said in regard to my personal situation.

I said in the original post that I only used MDMA because I was going to kill myself that day and I was doing it just to enjoy myself. I was intentionally not being careful with it

Hahaha don't worry I'm not going to do salvia lol

I don't have depression. My suicidal tendencies are akin to a person being physically tortured and desperately wishing to be dead to escape the pain. That doesn't mean they have depression. Depressed people feel sadness, meaninglessness, they are bed ridden, they have no motivation to work towards anything or move their lives forwards. That is not me at all. I work my ass off to resolve my situation, I am highly motivated and passionate, it's just that the pain is so deep and has gone on for so long, and no matter how hard I try I haven't been able to heal myself and resolve my situation. The pain is excruciating and it destroys me, it makes me hate life so much and want to be dead more than anything. But in moments when my pain lightens up, my passion and motivation comes back. But also, I spent all my money doing ayahuasca. I definitely don't have any money to do ketamine therapy

You don't see just how much involvement there is in my life from my higher self (I don't really know what to call it, that term feels appropriate). There is such an intelligence that is guiding and directing my life, it has been this way for years but its involvement gets more and more obvious and clear over time. I can feel its presence through the insane amount of synchronicities that happen in my life, and how no matter how hard I try to kill myself, I never end up doing it and I continue on this path. My connection to existential love continues to get deeper, I continue to get closer to awakening. Everything that happens is so deeply meant to be. About a month ago I could sense the presence of this higher self so much, that I took 5-MeO-DMT with the intention of trying to see it and understand it more. On the trip I left human life, I saw life as a dream, and I came face to face with my higher self. I could feel the presence of it right there in front of me. I was sitting on my bed holding my arms out saying "I love you!" trying to hug it. It was so beautiful and made me so happy, because I could feel that it loves me and it is taking care of me, and it is directing my life. I remember asking it if it could please tone down the suffering because this is way too much. Its response was (through feeling, not words) "no, sorry. You need to go through whatever you need to go through to get where you're meant to be, and nothing will get in the way of that". I remember when I spoke with you a year ago and told you about the connection with existential love I have developed, you didn't take it seriously, and you thought that I was intentionally putting myself through suffering like those old christian mystics with those painful vests they would wear. This is not like that at all. All of the suffering I have endured in my life is deeply meant to be, it is my path to awakening, and the longer I stay on this path the clearer this becomes. If I was actually going to kill myself, it would have happened a long time ago. This higher self will not let me die, no matter how hard I try. I am close to a huge breakthrough, to a huge awakening into existential love. There have been so many signs lately that show this, and what I wrote in my original post about what I experienced on MDMA the other day shows what I need to do to get there. I am at no risk of harming myself, I'm not going to seek a therapist or external help. I will read through the responses in this thread and consider any advice, but ultimately I know what is right for myself, I trust my intuition and the path that I am on, and I know it will work out. I feel like through writing out this response to convince you that I will be fine, I am also convincing myself that I will be fine, and I am convincing myself to fully trust in the universe, fully surrender to its guidance. I need to let go of any external advice, any logical thoughts of what I need to do in my life, and listen to my heart, and nothing else. As long as I do that, I will be perfectly fine. "The word courage is very interesting. It comes from a Latin root cor, which means ‘heart’. So to be courageous means to live with the heart. And weaklings, only weaklings, live with the head; afraid, they create a security of logic around themselves. Fearful, they close every window and door – with theology, concepts, words, theories – and inside those closed doors and windows, they hide. The way of the heart is the way of courage. It is to live in insecurity; it is to live in love, and trust; it is to move in the unknown. It is leaving the past and allowing the future to be. Courage is to move on dangerous paths. Life is dangerous, and only cowards can avoid the danger – but then, they are already dead. A person who is alive, really alive, vitally alive, will always move into the unknown. There is danger there, but he will take the risk. The heart is always ready to take the risk, the heart is a gambler. The head is a businessman. The head always calculates – it is cunning. The heart is non-calculating.” - Osho

This reminds me of this thread I made on April 22 2022. "A few months ago I had this awakening where I discovered this deeper part of myself within me. It was really clear that it was me because of how it felt, but it wasn't my ego or me as Tristan. When I saw this part of myself, it was like I as Tristan was looking at it and it was communicating with me in a way. I could also see that no other person really existed, and all of reality is just my own direct experience, and this life I had as a human and everything within it is just something I imagined. This part of me showed me that everything that I have been through in my life had led me to this point of awakening and realizing all of this, and it will continue to lead me deeper. It also showed me that all of the suffering I have been through in my life (as I have been through a ton) was never personal, it was never about me, it all happened just for the sake of leading me to awakening. Then this part of me showed me that it loved me, very much. It was really beautiful."

I currently take low doses roughly 3 times a week, and I've been doing that for a few months. As mentioned in my previous thread, I've been having moments at the end of 5meo trips where I start to get really crazy and hyper, specifically trips that have a lot of love. It usually lasts for 2-3 hours. The love triggers something in me, makes me crazy and puts me in an altered state of consciousness. These moments have been happening more frequently lately, even without tripping. Sometimes they happen randomly throughout the day, often times they are triggered by listening to loving and emotional music. I first thought that this could be related to awakening and to my development towards existential love, especially considering that most of the time this is triggered by love. But it's happening more often, even without love, randomly throughout the day. My head feels spacey, I feel zoned out, music feels hypnotizing, almost like it's putting me in a trans. I feel love more deeply than usual. It's deeper, more beautiful, more consuming than usual. I groan and mumble and shake similar to how I do on psychedelics, even though I'm fully sober. I don't know if this is something related to awakening, or if it's from me taking psychedelics too often. I'm asking about this here to see what people think. If this does end up being from over-consumption of psychedelics and not from any kind of awakening, is it bad to stay in this state? I really need to stay focused on my healing work and be tripping regularly to make progress with it. I can't afford to wait around for weeks or months, doing nothing and waiting to trip. I don't have a problem being in this state, it's not uncomfortable and it doesn't affect my ability to work or live my life normally. If anything, it's enjoyable. I just don't know if there are any risks to my health to stay in this state.

@Grateful Dead I agree, thank you

@Loving Radiance That's really helpful, thank you

Just to preface this for those who haven't seen my previous posts and don't know about my situation - I have been dealing with very severe mental health issues for years, been suicidal for years but especially over the last year. The pain I've been through has been so deep and severe that it has led to me developing a connection with existential love, and the connection gets deeper as time goes on. I am currently working with psychedelics to try and heal myself. I have noticed lately as I gain more insight into myself and my emotional issues, into exactly what is going on and what I need to do to heal, I can really feel the potential for getting deep into existential love as a result of healing. I feel like my healing will come with a massive, life-changing awakening into existential love, and that is what all these years of suffering have been leading up to. I think it's very likely that something like that would happen. Lately I've noticed something happening after my 5-MeO-DMT trips - I still take very light doses so I am not going that deep, but I have noticed that lately any time I approach some deep form of love while on 5meo, I start to get really hyper and crazy, and it lasts for a few hours after the trip. A few hours ago I tripped in the back of the car in the park, at around 4am. I had quite a good trip, although it was lighter than usual, and I had a really helpful insight for my healing, and it led to me really seeing the potential for how much love I could feel, and how deeply that love could impact me and heal me. After I came down from the main part of the trip, I got into this really hyper and crazy mood, and it felt like it was coming from the love. My heart just felt so free and open. It's like my heart gets touched so deeply by love that I go mad and become crazy, and that mood lasts for a few hours after the trip, even after I become fully sober. Today was the third time this has happened. I spent more time in the car as I was coming down, rolling around, making noises, laughing, singing, being super crazy. I eventually left the car and decided to walk around the park. I approached this wide open soccer field, and I could see the night sky, the only light coming from the moon. That huge open space made my heart feel so free and open. I started to run around the field, while listening to my music, just going nuts, in the middle of the night, like a crazy person. During these moments, I have this feeling where I don't want to sit still, I don't want to be stuck in one form or experience. I want to be a shapeshifter, I want to experience all different things, changing over and over, and not be stuck or attached to one specific form. My heart feels so expansive and open. The craziness feels like it comes from me being so happy and giddy over this love, I am just hyper and happy, just letting myself go, letting myself be absolutely open and free, not held down by anything. I thought about something I read on Leo's blog while I was in this state tonight: "God is a madman who sits on the shore, imagines himself to be a flamingo, morphs into a flamingo, and flys off into the sunset without a care in the world." I was like yes! exactly! that is exactly how it feels. Also this quote came to mind: "I am hopelessly in love with you, no point giving me advice. I have drunk love's poison, no point taking any remedy. They want to chain my feet but what's the point when it is my heart that's gone mad!" - Rumi As I said, this is the third time this craziness thing has happened over the past few weeks, it usually lasts 2-3 hours after the main part of the trip is over. In my opinion it's a good thing, I think it's part of my growth and development towards existential love and God. I think it's a sign of awakening, and I think it's more confirmation that I will likely have a massive awakening into love as a result of healing. I just wanted to share this here because I thought it was very interesting.

I've heard this kind of explanation before but it still doesn't make sense to me or feel right to me and my situation. I do know what I want and I know exactly what kind of life I would want to live if I could. I consider myself a very self-aware person. Of course there is always more self-awareness to be gained, but that's not something I struggle with. I can't take action to create the life I want right now because of how severe my emotional issues are. That's the whole point of seeking this healing. I don't need psychedelics to tell me I have social anxiety. It's obvious I have that. I get your point though - however I have already become very aware of a lot of the fears and emotional issues within me. Psychedelics have helped me gain a lot more self-awareness through adding a lot of detail and nuance to my understanding of my emotional issues, however I have already been aware of my core fears and emotional wounds before taking psychedelics. I spent almost 5 years using sober healing techniques, like trauma healing techniques, emotional release techniques, things like that, but none of it ever worked for me. The reason I finally decided to do psychedelics is because nothing else was working and I figured they would help me heal. To be told that the point of psychedelics is to help me become aware of the emotional issues I have so that I can work through them sober, that would mean I'm right back in the situation I was before, even though I just spent 5 years gaining awareness of my emotional issues and trying to work through them sober. Like I said, everything you just said I have heard from other people before, and I don't see how any of it can help me with my situation. The main reason I use psychedelics is to gain access to my subconscious mind, to be able to release my emotional pain at a much deeper level than I can sober, and I don't see why I wouldn't be able to do that and why that wouldn't heal me. In my opinion psychedelics are tools that can be used for healing, and the healing is done on the psychedelic, at least in regard to the type of healing I need. I don't see how anything I do in my sober life will heal me at this point after everything I've tried and all the work I've already done. @Flowerfaeiry I'm going to tag you here because you were talking about the importance of Integration as well and I would like to hear your response to this

Yeah... you have no idea. I agree. One thing I noticed recently as I've gained a lot more awareness into my emotional issues and all of the different nuances and components of it, is that my exact situation is absolutely perfect for reaching love. If you were given the task to give someone a life and a set of traumas and emotional pain that would most effectively lead them to existential love, if you were extremely intelligent and really knew what you were doing, you would create a life that was set up exactly in the way mine is, with the exact emotional pains and traumas I have. My condition so perfectly leads to love, that it's eerie. It's a feeling that this was created on purpose, like someone has been here and created this. If you came home one day and your house was trashed and you could tell it had been robbed, that feeling you would have of sensing that someone had been there and done all of that, it's that exact same feeling I have when I look at my life and everything about it. It's all happened so intentionally, like some higher power created it all on purpose. It's only a matter of time before the end goal of awakening to love is reached.

My main question in this thread is if these moments of craziness I am experiencing are a sign of using the substance too much or a sign of awakening. Nobody has really answered that, but I guess people don't really know. I have felt very strongly lately that I will have some kind of huge awakening into existential love as a result of healing. It would make a lot of sense, because I have been going through extreme suffering for the past almost 8 years, and it has led to me developing a very deep connection with existential love. It gets deeper over time, and it really feels like this chapter of my life will finish with a huge breakthrough into love, and I think it would make so much sense for that to happen. The suffering I have been through is so deep and so extreme, that I don't feel like anything in normal life could ever make up for it. I have a seething hared towards human life, I want to be out of it more than anything. I have been so destroyed and tortured by life that deep in my heart I have this feeling that I am so done with it, I want to leave, no matter how good life could get in the future, it won't make up for what I've been through. This feeling permeates my whole being, I feel it deep in my heart. It's not just some surface level, temporary feeling I have. My desire to be dead and leave human life is so strong, yet I can't convince myself to kill myself no matter how hard I try, so the only reasonable solution is that I would end up leaving human life through awakening. This desire to escape human life creates such an obsession with God and existential Love. Love touches me so deeply, just a small amount of it makes me cry so hard. I want to go back to God, I want to feel God's endless love and leave this human life. The fact that this new behaviour has started occurring where I get very crazy, hyper and giddy as a result of touching love, my heart feels extremely open and expansive, love feels so deep, beautiful and hypnotizing, more than ever before, this feels like more progression towards awakening to love, which is totally good. If I consult my intuition, I feel like these episodes I'm having are a completely good thing, I think I am on my way to a huge awakening. Nobody in this forum so far has commented on or seems to understand what is going on with me and my development towards existential love, so I think my best bet is to trust my intuition, do what feels right to me, and figure out what I need to do by myself. "It is God's loving kindness to terrify you, in order to bring you to his kingdom of safety" - Rumi "Love is when God says "I have created everything for you" and you say "I have left everything for you"" - Rumi

@OBEler My experience is pretty similar to yours. I don't really experience any fear going into it at this point, I definitely did in the beginning, but now my trips are very consistent so I know what to expect and I don't get nervous. I enjoy the trips, they are usually beautiful and feel good, but I don't feel like I have to trip, and if for some reason I could no longer do these trips anymore, I wouldn't have a problem.

@aurum Thank you