seriousman24

Does lesser imply that it is less deserving of perfection or is that it's perfection that we suffer, doesn't the meaning of the word suffering lose it's value then when it's called perfect or is it still perfect because suffering fulfills its own condition/purpose and is therefore perfect, I'd like to be able to call it imperfect too because it makes me happier to be able to rebel, not because I'm angry but because it makes me happy although I'm fine with anger too. @Someone hereOne of the ways to have only pleasure is to simply make the action of surviving more pleasurable at the time it's necessary, so you're trying to cross the street, I lookout for passing cars because it's more pleasurable than not looking, I don't put my hand in a burning stove because it's more pleasurable to do so, I don't stab myself because it's more pleasurable to do so, I go to bed because it's pleasurable, it is more pleasurable to not hurt myself than it is to hurt myself. I myself am still not sure what true function suffering serves since you should be able to interrupt a behavior that is leading to your death by simply injecting a higher pleasure to change your action, like lets say overeating, you'd stop overeating because its even more pleasurable to stop eating than to eat more and so on applied to any action. One of the made up hypotheticals is because the natural imperfection of suffering makes pleasure itself evolve and that would be the only reason it can accidentally exist, yes suffering is an accident and "god" is wrong all the time and so is perfection if it really is infinite and perfect it would call suffering a really perfectly horrific and undesirably imperfect mistake, make no mistake people suffering is wrong and bad and don't be scared to admit it because after all if you really need suffering as you say than this fear which another suffering should also be respected, checkmate. I still can't understand why suffering would be necessary but at the very least I don't think pleasure itself by itself has the capacity for erasure, the ability to remove something or change direction does seem much stronger in suffering so there's something related to that, while pleasure can also erase and change the direction of some pleasure that is currently happening suffering does it better and faster so therefore because there is such a thing as the pleasure of erasure and removal and acceleration of change suffering can exist but only exclusively fueled by pleasure, the property of suffering itself is to remove itself or something, it does not want something or itself and pleasure can't do that as well, maybe someday it will and I don't see why we have to go through this either when it's so apparently obvious.

Won't that potentially make the other people lazy and therefore create suffering because they'll become less compassionate because apparently you can only have compassion for suffering, listen, empathy and compassion is also for others pleasure and bliss.

I'm going to be annoying for fun here, let me say meaning, equanimous/selfless/egoless, service to others and the like are just more sensations too, what happens ultimately with the final evolution of all systems is that they tend do devolve into a yes/no ultimate/seed state where you can spring yourself up or down to connect/disconnect to all other systems or beings, the yes no is bliss/suffering or love/suffering or ego/egoless which means that everything that you just said is simply relative to whoever is beholding it so that's why we fight and how we engage we need something to remove or we need to enhance something, this something is just whatever our sensations/meaning/ego are which if fine by me. Are you confused or am I the only human being who is? How is that so many human beings deny each others realities this what I'm doing to right now?Probably but I'm just seeking to fulfill my desires for interaction really, I don't feel too confused anymore but that had little to do with realizations themselves but more with just a release from chronic physical hell.

Agreed and it seems there's a fundamental sensation underlying all sensations which is bliss/suffering, it gets tagged/bound to the other sensations of sight/sound/taste/etc creating our behaviors and maybe reality itself, no matter where I look or how hard or how little I try I am bound to follow bliss/suffering 100% of the time, I wonder what this means all the time which is of course another set of sensational bounds attached to mental sensations. I do feel like my particular bliss/suffering core of sensation is unique to me, it is likely slightly different for other humans even when we exclude most of the bounded sensations just like it should be.

Yeah and I thought it's also a bit closer to leo's kind of vision since it doesn't appear to deny the mind as much as other schools of mysticism seem to, I know there are some schools that are supposed to go through intelligence but I haven't personally seen any information about what that is supposed to look like, even if there are some kind of people who might not be considered conventionally intelligent I believe that kind of path might actually suit them pretty well, when I sit in meditation I often find that the sensations that I feel at least in superficial silence are a lot like just like thoughts, for me thoughts are like regular senses they can just be way more chaotic or instead overly serious and limited in unnecessary ways just like the all other sensations, I can feel but not understand completely how every other sensation affects the sensation of thought and vice versa, thoughts just as more capacity to be continually active and voluntary rather than mostly receptive. So thinking ends up being our most detached and flexible sensations at first that slowly get tagged to more material sensations and vice versa which will either cause you suffering or bliss which determines the kind of thoughts that happen less or more frequently and of course how the sensation of thought interacts with the other sensations of your own thoughts which include other people. Of course imagination and thought is pretty much the same thing to me too, you can just say it's more wild.

Thinking can set you free too, why are some humans so mean to thinking, poor thoughts, can't we just enjoy each others thoughts and even liberate ourselves through them, what's so bad about thoughts and thinking, let me think! It's just as fun as not thinking. I bet you can even think yourself up to enlightenment or whatever nonsense we all like to babble and think about as an ultimate state to achieve or think yourself out of bad and evil thoughts like the ego and whatever we label as bad. You can think with and without mediums, no language no visuals and so on and so forth, as far as I'm concerned if you feel/sense anything, that might as well be a thought to me, what do you guys think about thinking? Is thinking bad or good? Is it both? Is it neither? Who is so scared of thinking? I've always enjoying thinking but it has been quite hard to think about those who seem to want them dead and for those whose thoughts seem to serve material reality, it's all good to me though since all thoughts are just that, I think I just like data and to me thinking is even like physical exercise sometimes, invigorating and refreshing but also goes beyond into the joy of revealing the previously unfathomable.

Somewhere awesomer than before.So much that the concept of accelerating awesomeness transcends itself into an unawesomability.

Yes. I don't know, I can't even say maybe even though saying that I can't say it is almost the same as saying it.

The clumsy way I see it is: We are the impossible which is both extra bliss and suffering. Both suffering and extra perfection are impossible, nobody/nothing would ever choose to suffer or would ever choose more than perfection, you cannot be more than perfect. Time seems to be intertwined/created by these impossibilities because we cannot and do not need to exist more than or as more than perfection, a single perfect moment is indeed utter perfection for those who have had some experience, the opposite for those who have felt true horror. We exist because we are that which survives both perfect bliss and suffering which can't exist by themselves because they are both perfect and infinitely realized, that is, suffering never exists/never existed and bliss has and will always exist and it's so perfect it doesn't even need to exist, at least within time, it's that powerful. That said after typing and deleting a huge amount of confused text I guess we too can't exist outside suffering/bliss either, I guess we are not even just time, we are connected quantities which when connected to bliss form time which generates extra bliss/suffering or whatever order you want, maybe, we are more than what we need to be, we are greed and ignorance if put into story like concepts but also the formidable and unfathomable, more than ONE kind of beings, quantity/type.

Looking foward to the ultra deluxe supreme infinite non dual magical crystal universe adamantium synchronistic fruit juice alien monkey god anti matter potato god sentience video release! (Unironically)

Better ask the same thing in the health section or/and look somewhere else, describe your diet/age, level of physical activity, medications you take and level of income, or right here too if it's easier since it's already rolling. There is no point to suffering, you don't have to suffer for a single moment or a single tiniest thing, we just get confused because suffering is mixed up in joy/pleasure so we keep justifying suffering because it has some joy/pleasure somewhere in it, in supreme suffering lets say the only joy is precisely that it doesn't have any joy/pleasure in itself, that you don't have to ever suffer to feel good, that actually there is such a thing as a real difference between things, there are distinctions, real things/non-illusions. You can curse god, it's more honest and direct than trying to justify getting tortured by life, do what you need to do. You can worship and curse god, sometimes even at the same time.

That might make you try to repeat your suffering again in hopes of recreating an awakening once it dies out and if it fails to awaken you what will you do? Maybe you'll try even more suffering, you'll get your awakening and then hell begins as you get thrown in a loop chasing awakenings, the suffering will win out in the end because it is destructive in a non constructive way and the awakenings are weaker because they're byproducts of the suffering instead of self contained/created. Instead of creating or waiting for suffering to induce an awakening we should destroy suffering even where there is none just like love springs out from nothing maybe we can also destroy nothing to create a virtuous cycle of creation and destruction thereby doing the same thing that suffering does but without actual suffering, that said of course the combination of suffering and love lead to the greatest awakenings because it makes you see/be/align with destruction and creation.

The more you suffer the less awake you are, suffering leads directly to more suffering, no suffering has ever lead to love or any good thing ever and never will, everyone is confused, it's something else, think again, you should suffer less not more, there is no justification for suffering and never will be, you don't need or have to tolerate suffering for even a single moment, not even that you shouldn't even need to have ever suffered to know that you shouldn't ever suffer, any loopholes?

Meaning is painful isn't it, at least that's what it feels like as the unthinking monkey that I'm feeling like right now.

I think you're both entirely correct, we're always fighting over definitions and I think this fight and evolution is worth it which is why it happens, both being entirely correct actually does elevate the interaction specially when there are differences, the differences interact and everyone hopefully comes out better in some way which is why I feel so robotic about the things I write about too, like I'm typing out almost nothing but it's fun so I still do it.

The neutral sensation he's referring to probably has to do with the subtle pleasurable sensation that comes from intelligent "analysis" which allows to put things in their place, the relatively clean and uncorrupted pleasure of mental organization and neutral awareness that is able to cleanly distinguish between things and make good decisions. The neutrality of events is also a chemical reaction, including our thoughts, by neutrality I believe you mean that the events simply become irrelevant, no longer necessary, you no longer need to spend painful energy on them, you're saying there is a boredom attached to them at some point in some way and that there is something better to focus on, so here the ego for you is currently being defined as that which is the thing to more strongly pay attention to so that it can be ignored because it is painful or because it's more pleasurable to be neutral. So we're still simply doing thing because they "taste" "better" or "worse, neutrality is simply tasting better right now.

You know how everyone like to talk about how everything's already perfect and love, well don't worry to much we are also already in hell, ANY suffering no matter how lame, weird, unique or how small is "hell", we are already in hell too, we just don't take small sufferings seriously, we only need to learn that ANY suffering is "bad", real and valid, like fearing the color blue, the true confusion does emerge because suffering only exists because of "pleasure" but pleasure can exist without pain or suffering and hence we forget suffering, the trick here is to complete our personal stories/journeys where all your personal pleasures merge so harmoniously that they loopback into creating a true unique "ego", identity/identifier which has the advantages of the form of "suffering" without suffering, this enables multiple different supreme beings to exist at the same time in an individualized and interactable domain. Even bhudda or whoever anyone looks up to as the most supreme CANNOT handle even a single moment of an ant's SMALLEST suffering, they CAN however enjoy an ant's bliss while a less developed being might not, in other words for an ant having to move 1 cm extra due to an obstacle might be an infinitively small "pain/suffering" due to the extra energy required to process the obstacle created by that slight extra movement for a "supreme being" a 1 cm movement is also just as "horrific" even though they ARE supreme and for them that would be even TRILLIONS of time less infinite suffering(like billions of times easier than moving a finger) they would still choose not to suffer it, the point is we are only going to get "somewhere" different with joy/pleasure/bliss, if that 1 cm movement can be like the enjoyment of a dance then perhaps it has some value now, so it DOES not matter how silly a suffering is, at that given time and state it is utterly real same as any silly and even "evil" pleasures, evil gets more complex but it's basically the same thing but we'd have to understand both bliss/love and suffering at the same time to truly get "evil". That said this all just a real story for fun.

Suffering "shouldn't" exist because it self nullifies, therefore all there is is "love/bliss", since that clearly is not the truth since anyone alive does experience suffering it means that suffering exists only because of love not in spite of it, suffering cannot exist on it's own and does not, love does exist on it's own at least as an "imagination" that it is drawn from. Because love can exist on it's owns it doesn't need something "more", or more quantity of it or to evolve. Therefore this love we are experiencing is the horror of extra infinity, the creation of an "extra love", the possibility of impossibility, in other words one of the only things that are impossible are occurring here, an infinity that goes beyond infinity, which by definition is impossible yet we suffer, suffering does not exist by itself it's always mixed up in love. Perhaps it's this extra love which hurts the "other" loves, quantity and time are the manifestations of extra infinity/love, since having and being more than infinity is an impossible concept, extra infinity comes in and grants us the impossibility which is called suffering, while it's true it cannot exist on it's own, when "mixed" with love it forms the connection from one love to another different love, when you have "two" loves the suffering has done it's job as if it never existed in the first place as suffering is likely the product of "pure" conceptual difference between to initially different types of love. Then likely comes EXTRA extra infinity because if everything was just being assimilated "perfectly", or one to one, one at a time, so 1 love and another love mixing and creating suffering out of their attempt at connecting and becoming "more" than love, "more" than perfection which is also impossible this creates a more than 1 suffering at a time situation. Therefore it is not only possible to have more than "one perfect love" it is possible to have more than one love and more than one suffering at a given time therefore creating not just a difference in forms but also time which then explains both infinity, forms, quantity, types, stories, dualities, asymmetries and finity. I realized people like/understand the word suffering much more than pain, my bad since English's my second language I didn't realize it was so strongly associated with bodily suffering because I've only recently came out of a 15 year long chronic bodily(and emotional) torture that started round 15 years of age, getting "unfairly" tortured by life in several different ways without actually dyeing while continually regenerating from it while being "spiritual" and actually trying to understand reality and what's happening to you works as a pretty powerful "psychedelic" energy wise, this of course is just another story, suffering isn't needed, for now, I'll wait for the ultimate infinite impossibility where suffering is somehow truth, probably already the case, at least the form of suffering but not it's feeling.

Empathy is also the "ability" to feel other's passions, desires, lusts and likes and secret and obscene and grotesque simple and sophisticated pleasures, so Putin's love for dominating others, Hitler's desires, someone's prideful arrogance it starts sounding really obscene/silly/funny because that's where the actual full spectrum of empathy leads. This might be the ACTUAL hardest empathy skill, how a person you like is feeling their own happiness is much harder than to precisely pinpoint their miseries because happiness/love is much more expansive/complex and actually "harder" to understand also because THEIR happiness is going to have multiple sources of background "miseries" that they've already went through which you might have to go through to fully understand, of course luckily happiness is something that "spreads" easily so we can get new forms of happiness that deepen our own much more easily from our fellow human beings, specially ones we like, it's what we do daily and we get it for FREE, you don't need to suffer as much because that person's energy as most of it "mapped" out and because they're another human being. I'm sure there's an official term, okay that was pretty straight forward after a search, empathic joy, with this it's actually "EASY" to understand villains and victims.

There are other videos where he explains a bit of why 84/108/114 etc, the numbers themselves seem to come from the diameter of the sun moon earth thing being 108 and how many moon phases per year etc, dunno how true or not it is.

Keep trying the physical stuff, find some way to make the exercises hurt less, try fasting or dry fasting if it gets bad, try changing diet temporarily, try carnivore or keto because carnivore can tank the energy but do stop doing anything that hurts, basically the sense of self is as much about what feels good as it is about removing what feels bad and what feels bad "is" bad, the form of the bad doesn't matter, whether we make it up or it comes from the outside, so resist and do so intelligently finding ways to intentionally create friction and resistance in ways that hurt less and less because either way you are dealing with levels of energy your whole body can't handle yet.

Eat real cooked meals at any time your body asks, this will support your natural rhythms more than just not forcing yourself to sleep and make it so that if you do feel like staying awake you feel just normal with the added perks and hidden body/mind/spiritual advantages of the night, of course since you're eating at night pay attention because you might start craving different foods, at shower if you want/can at night, sleep with open windows if you can, and have sheets that are clean enough for your personal comfort. Happens to me much more in the winter which is also when I feel the sharpest emotionally and "spiritually". So obviously you should sleep at night or in the morning or in the afternoon or in the evening, sleep is literally the easiest natural rhythm, I believe most of the confusion about sleep timings is actually just because people are "shy" about eating real meals at night, once I started eating cooked meals at ANY time as if it was day my "productivity" skyrocketed, so THIS is what your body and mind has to actually focus on, because the body itself might have more resistance to eating real meals at night than to sleep during the day, really good "spiritually" for me.

I wanted to say much more about this type of topic but you know you can't avoid pleasure either, that's the most obvious thing to think about, can you eliminate pleasure from your life, no matter what you do and who you are if the sensation of pleasure however subtle or small isn't present for long enough you will die or are asleep or unconscious, the reason you don't understand suffering is because you don't understand pleasure either, you can't stop associating it with particular actions and states of minds, with suffering you are able to look at it objectively so just try to do the same with pleasure, as if it also exists on it's own just like we humans do with our deep logic and perspectives about suffering across all beings and states. When there's a balancing point between both it allows both their own sustained duality and the potential interaction and integration or non integration with the other sustained dualities, this is time and "others" or complexity or evolution.

I think the continuous combination of chaotic destructive and creative randomness automatically makes "random" like intelligent order emerge, the combination allows a bedrock layer of order that gets it's own specific complex order and chaos affect both simpler and complex forms of orders and chaos that have similarly emerged and so on and so forth, I'm applying my logic from my other posts into discussions about fundamentals since it fits from my perspective. Each chaos that manages to survive is basically it's own type of order, which is still going to behave chaotically to most other orders which are themselves surviving chaos and then because "quantity exists" you can have every single possibility exist, everything can exist and non exist in the same space-time except suffering for this particular type of order(life, me and you) which I guess it's why "god" exists because suffering "should" be impossible yet we can feel it.

Fully agreed and to add to this is there are some type of people that can sometimes be more neuro-divergent or mentally ill or just weird type, people like me actually begin more on the right side of the extreme and because spirituality is geared towards the left side when I started out at 11 years old I instantly reached an awakening peak the very first time I meditated after I read an osho's book on witnessing so I went off too hardcore to the right over time, every time anything was wrong or if I was trying to evolve further I always tried to get more spiritual when what I might have needed even from before I had an awakening was actually more ego, more assertiveness, more self centeredness and less uncontrolled empathy, more physicality, I needed less surrendering and of course because of this there is almost no advice regarding people who genuinely begin from the right side, because nobody teaches you how to consciously and skillfully hate or dislike something, I was overly optimistic to a stupid extreme that I would ignore any physical strain/pain that would challenge my love, surrender and optimism for what I thought was my self and others, It's almost complicated, but that's only because there's almost no advice on how being more egotistical is actually real evolution for people like me, it has negative connotations and what people can't understand is that actually it is supposed to have, the negativity itself doesn't imply suffering it implies difference and individuality, I assume it's partially because the feminine side and the post scarcity of a major part of humanity has only been active for maybe 70 years so we've been teaching ourselves how to be more feminine but not how to be consciously "masculine" especially because most of the ego and masculinity teaching are presented too sexually instead of from wholesale mechanical usefulness side that applies to every aspect of life, Accepting your hate and your biases doesn't just mean you stop being biased, you actually also become more biased by being unbiased, the degree of evolution is about the connection between simple and complicated, both have to exist always moving away from suffering and towards whatever(because there's no singular word for the good stuff), it is utterly irrelevant what form is either right now, even if something was good a moment ago and suddenly isn't then that is simply the truth, repetition is irrelevant, things don't have to be new, they don't have to be different and they don't have to be the same either, we just obey pleasure and pain 100% of time, why? Because I have not known any other single thing except what this confusion is trying to teach me, time, memory, imagination, multiple selves from where there are more types of pleasures and more vectors for reducing suffering(reducing suffering does not necessitate for there to be a suffering to reduce, you can remove suffering from nothing or even from bliss because it's just an expression/reaction of a type of action/form which in itself is a type of specific pleasure). Thank you for reading my cringe lol, because genuine social interaction is cringe even through a safe screen to me am I roight?