bazera

@Leo Gura That's assuming it can't get better at it. Or you are saying that it's impossible to make such an AGI given the current technology. I also think that. The last couple years of advancement feels like more of the same, a better version but essentially more of the same underlying thing, as you said "recombitions of existing ideas". What do you think will it take to make a truly intelligent AI?

@Leo Gura To work with your course, will different psychedelics work? Like mushrooms for example. Or should it be the same exact one you use for your retreat?

Hey, I haven't done any psychedelics yet but I'm saving up to travel to Europe (I'm living in Eastern Europe) to try some. I don't want to trip alone because I'm inexperienced, I think it would be better for me to trip in a retreat setting where I'll be taken care of physically. Do you have any experience in where I can do that? I looked online, there are some places but I wanted to know if anybody here tried some of those places. I'd start with Mashrooms maybe, because I don't think LSD is legal anywhere, and I don't want to start with anything stronger like DMT or 5Meo-DMT

@Nemra Didn't know that, that must be pretty intense. But again, the fact that I'm not in charge of a dosage makes me a bit uneasy. If it was just me without shaman, I would start with a tiny dosage, and work my way up. But if somebody else decided that for me, not sure how to handle it. But I hope they have different protocols for beginner and advanced trippers.

@Kensho Ayahuasca is basically DMT, right? Can you share more about your experiences with those shamans and trips itself? I'm a bit worried about the dosage, like, do you have any say in how much of that substance you consume? or it is all up to those shamans that I should trust.

@Leo Gura How can we prepare for it? I mean, that retreat plan sounds like a long term thing but can we do something today that can help us to get the most out of your retreat? Also, what is the timeframe that you are considering? Are you planning to do it in a year or two, or it's more long term thing like 5 years? I really want to attend and I'm asking to start prepare myself financially, visa-wise, etc.

@theleelajoker By content I meant changing stuff that doesn't require existential investigation and much inquiry, like appearence changes and going out to socialize more, meeting new people. By structure I meant stuff like contemplating why I do these things at all I mean what I am trying to do, what's my real intentions, what do I really want out of life, what is life anyways, etc. I don't see how I can avoid making the same mistakes in life (not only in relationships, but in general) without that second way. It requires solitude, not more socializing. But in the midst of a griefing period, my mind is all over the place, I can't do anything properly, so I just go with the motions and trust in the healing power of time and the inner intelect of an organism to adapt to a new circumstances of life, which should happen eventually, just a matter of time.

@theleelajoker Yes sure, I recognize that trap. I was just referring to taking some action towards your vision, whatever that might be, instead of being miserable laying in bed eating doritos and crying over a broken relationship for months (I think even that is okay for couple weeks, if it helps, but not healthy in the long term). And by "working on yourself", I also meant working on shattering the illusions of the self, which should bring more and more clarity over the situation, and might end up in a realization that all this outer changes (maybe even some innner ones) are deeply limited because I guess at some point you turn to existential inqury which makes you look at the structure itself instead of the content of yourself. But I think I still have a huge room of improvement in the content still, so that's what I was referring. But I know the potential isn't infinite there so I'll make sure not to fall in that trap.

@theleelajoker Thanks brother, your thoughts are insightful I intuit that if you can't do this alone, it's basically impossible to do it with a partner. That's why right now I want to switch all attention on me, on ironing out my flaws, change my consciousness in a way that I am more comfortable with presense, and with myself in general. I don't mean super metaphysical stuff, just the baseline acceptance of this is what it is. I can change some aspects like weight, body composition hairstyle hair-transplant dress style being more social, being more humurous etc also some deeper aspects that will take more time like emotional maturity more and more comfortable with just truth conscious communication in a relationship etc I don't see myself not making the same mistakes in the next relationships if I don't really work on myself for some time without distractions of having a partner. But even if I do that, I think there will be even more attachment if all goes well in a relationship and even more heartbreak when if falls apart for some reason, so yeah, I don't see how we can skip that. At least if you are proud of who you are and what you've built with your life, the grief time will get shortened from months to weeks, but still, that also depends on girl. Anyways, path towards maturity is so rough and tough. Yeah, in retrospect I'm sure most of the breakups will be seen as a trampoline for growth (if used correctly), but that's hard to see when you're neck deep in the middle of it.

@theleelajoker Do you see a pattern in your behavior that causes relationships to end? Are there some consistent mistakes that you make over and over again? What are you plan to do differently next time so that the relationship wont end? Or are modern relationships all doomed to end sooner or later?

@Rasheed I'm literally experiencing that ONEITIS syndrome right now (it's been around 1 week after breakup), and you are right, it messed up everything for me, I experience loss of meaning in almost everything that I found meaning before (I know it's temporary though, because I've seen that sense of purpose come and go) I was also thinking of that exact same thing, is it even possible to have deep intimacy and romance without such attachment, not sure. I think part of what makes the intimacy deep is the attachment, and if you avoid the attachment (there is something called avoidant attachment style), it will make things worse. In a relationship I also tried to detach a bit because I feared of losing her (and experiencing grief of loss), and that created a distance which made things worse in a relationship, not better. I think not having an attachment would mean that you don't care if you have her or not, but I don't see how that can be healthy, when you want to build deeper intimacy. Having an attachment is like percieving her as part of you, which allows more intimacy then otherwise. I failed a relationship because I was too distant, I was avoiding attachment (as I think of it now). But I think it can be done without ONEITIS, if you somehow create an abundance of options for you. The reason for my ONEITIS I think is that I was too depended on her and haven't developed dating or attraction skills before, so if you develop those skills, you'll be confident to find somebody new (maybe better) if your current one fails. There will be a pain of grief, but the difference might be in duration and intensity. What do you think? And btw, why are you avoiding a pain of grief? I think you want deep intimacy without paying of cost if that intimacy is over.

Hey, I want your input on something I've been contempating. After the breakup I've experienced recently, I was thinking on this thing we call romantic love, what do we really mean exactly when we tell eacher other "I love you?" Have you ever wondered that? I mean, I loved my girlfriend, but now I should not because we are no longer together (I hope it takes time to fade away emotions). But what was the substance and the reasons behind that emotion when it was present? I think it was a combination of physical attraction, lust, companionship, partnership, helping each other in every way, friendship, attachement, a way of satisfying needs (inc. emotional), and god know how many other things that I'm not even aware of atm. In the modern culture this love is portrayed as something selfless or if you have a partner, and you think that this emotions can be recriated with other people simultaniously, you are somehow a bad person, but don't we all recreate the feelings after a breakup with new people? It has a veneer of selflesness but it's so fucking selfish. What do you think?

https://retreat.guru/events/3168-302/bufo-alvarius-11-sessions This is one example that I've found.

@Schizophonia Could you elaborate?

@Jannes I agree, and that fades away after some years, and it requires rekindling after a while, if both parties are willing to put in the effort. Also, I'd add, being in that experience of satisfaction creates an attachment, that then makes you wanna try to rekindle stuff if emotions fade. I've had a girlfriend who thought that if a relationship needs an effort, it doesn't meant to be. But I don't know what does that even mean, nothing is "meant to be".

@theleelajoker That's a very good idea, I'll surely do that

Hey, For the last couple of days I've been experiencing a break-up of my 4 years old relationship (I'm 29 years old guy currently). Before that I haven't really had any relationships so this was a first time, and the breakup is also the first one. So as this was an unknown feeling, I wasn't prepared for it and it hurts like hell. For the context, she broke up with me, and she already had another guy in her life which she had feelings for, so the decision went against me. The reasons for that are pretty messy, it involved mistakes from both sides. Basically, insecurities, addictions, cravings, fear of truth and lack of consistent conscious communication and maturity are the reasons relationship fell apart over the months. I think we could have rebuilt it if she was willing but the trust is completely gone from my side because she literally started to have feelings for another guy and didn't stop seeing him for couple weeks before she told me what was happening. But anyways, at least she was truthful in the end. We weren't living together, nor we planned that, or anything basically, we were just going with the flow, and that flow took us to a dead end. There was not a conscious leadership from my part, especially over the last couple months. First few days was like a constant dagger in my heart with lots of crying (which really helped to be honest, I have not cried for so many years but now it really helped me). Now, I feel horrible emptiness, it's like part of myself is cut off after so much time and it's just emptiness there. I'm trying to fill it with friends, family, exercise and stuff to do but I also realize that is just an attempt to ignore reality of this emptiness and embrace it with just sitting in silence. Also, I have a problem of idealizing her, in my mind she had most of the things I value and want as partner, a cute girl with the same values as me, same interests mostly, great sense of humor, etc. But that didn't turn out to be enough for us to sustain a healthy conscious relationship. What I want to know is when will this wound be healed. I also know that it varies from person to person, but what is your experience? Also, I want to use this experience as an exercise to look into the existential part of it. I mean, I was fulfilled in this relationship at some level but I felt I still lack something. Even if everythig had gone well, I intuit that I'd still not be really satisfied. And now I think it won't matter in the future as well, relationships of any kind won't make me as fulfilled as I want, like existentially speaking. And I'm not sure what to make of that idea. Maybe I'm wrong. I will use this experience as one of the greatest resets of my life, and I'll make sure not to do the same mistakes in the future relationships, because if I don't make an effort towards that now, those years will be for nothing really. How do you cope with breakups? The reason for posting was also to just have some people to talk to about this who are aware of consciousness work, survival games and stuff like that, because I want to view relationships in that proper context, what really matters ultimately.

@Madhur Yes you are very young and I'd do it absolutely, considering that if it doesn't go as planned you can always find another job while your parents are supporting you. You just have to use and direct those feelings towards something creative, every day, and track your progress as well weekly maybe. 6 months is not as long as you think, it will go really fast, and make sure you have something to show for it, even if it doesn't get you any money. At the moment you don't have that many responsibilities (your own family I assume, kids, rent, loan, etc), which gives you the freedom to do it, as long as your parent are okay with it. The reason I mention responsibilities is that you won't be like that forever, things will add up as years go by and it will be more and more difficult to live without a monthly paycheck. So do it while it's easier. Share with us what you create after those months

@Ero Congrats man! I'm in software development, but not doing ambitious things (at least by my standards), I mainly do front-end for companies for the last couple years, the pay is good and I haven't really tried anything else. If I wanted to go towards entrepreneurship and working on a business, what field would you recommend? "AI" is such a buzzword today, but what would you say are it's usage in business world as of today that we can leverage as creators? Also, how would you compare working 9-5 (if you even have) to working on your business, effort-wise and also how fulfilled are you?

@UpperMaster I haven't dated much through social media, and I don't have Insta page set up but I know friends who had dates after chatting up girls on Instagram. I think it's not a primary, but something to have just because why not. Also, depends on girl, my last girlfriend didn't use Instagram that much, other then scrolling for some cute memes. You just have to try and see. Try couple months with (restricted access to not waste time) and then without it and you'll know. If you incline towards not having one, I'm sure you'll still have success with girls, I don't see a reason why you won't. Of couse if all the other things are in place from your side like socialization, talking to girls, etc.

@UpperMaster Just put up some blocker app, the way I use Instagram is that I have an app called "Stay Focused" on my android phone, and I have the following settings set to Instagram: only allow me to use 10 minutes at a time, 30 minutes in total daily. That will restrict you to not spend too much time like crazy. If you start messaging a girl on the app, you can deactivate those settings later, but if you want to avoid doom-scrolling and wasting time, and still want to have app to follow girls, you can do what I do.

@theleelajoker Dreams are strange, overlooked phenomenon. It's cool that you've been using them for resolving life issues. Yeah seems to be something similar. Going through that chain is the bulk of the emotional work I think. But at the moment I'm so exhausted emotionally, I don't event want to frame that as "work". For some time, I'll spend 80% of the time in solitude contemplating on my past, actions, this relationship in particular, attachments, pain, heartbreak, etc. And I'll feel everything that comes up. And I'll spend 20% of my time researching stuff, maybe there is something I miss, like an approach that helps with something, or some way to distance myself from all this and look at it objectively. Again, thanks for sharing, helps a lot.

@theleelajoker Yeah...you are right. There is no rush of improvement either. I also take my time, sit and think a lot on what has happened. Not only in the last 4 years but before that as well. I think one thing that ending this relationship will cause for me is that I'll become more contemplative in general, because without that I'm like running hamster on the wheel, towards next relationship and next hobbie and next XYZ. I need to slow down. Thanks for the advice. One thing I didn't anticipate are dreams. When I think that emotions cooled down a bit and I can concentrate on work for example, and then take a nap and dream about some scenarios with her, I wake up super anxious and the circle starts all over again. But I trust that that will also fade away with time.

@theleelajoker Yeah, pretty much. Somebody said this on reddit which made me a bit more hopeful: "there will be a day when you realize that she's the second thing you think about when you wake up. then soon she will be the third. and the fourth. then soon enough it will be hours, days, a week even and you realized you haven't given her one bit of thought." Yeah that's exactly what I do. But sometimes I want none of those, just my own judgement and contemplation, which I often ignore and postpone, because I guess it's scary to confront truth about the self. But without this I can make same mistakes in future relationships. That's what is twisted about this situation. Simultaniously it's really painful and benefitial at the same time. It's a huge growth oppotunity, with multiple pillars like having all this emotions and attachment on the surface to work with, planning and hatching a plan of getting better in different ways and actually executing on those bit by bit daily weekly monthly, etc. So yea, I think when I look back after 5 years, I'd be glad that this happend. But that will require some years.

For me sharing my plans and goals with people causes some dopamine hits and feels that I've actually accomplished something, and later I might not take much action towards them. I don't know if that's actually a dopamine but it comes with a satisfying feeling, it's addictive. And then when I plan to do something, I get an urge to tell somebody, which is not healthy I think. Also, it might also be a hidden motive of wanting to validate your plans and goals with others before you commit to it. Just observe why you tend to share your plans and goals, really look into what are you trying to do there, is that net positive or negative. Now I personally don't share much, I prefer to show them results if anything.