Mason Riggle

@Carl-Richard you first. Wake up! ?

@Mannyb if you think Sam is real (material), you are just as lost in materialism as Sam.

@Carl-Richard are your words 'non-dual'?

if you think Sam is real, then you haven't awakened from the dream where he's a character.

@Mannyb both implies duality. They are the same thing, which is why it doesn't matter which it is. There is no 'which it is', as Spira claims.

@Mannyb it only concludes that materialism must be true, for any notion of it being true or false to mean anything. The conversation between characters in a dream only has meaning for those characters within the dream. If one awakens from the dream, one will laugh at itself for thinking the dream (and characters within it) was real.

@Carl-Richard you're here participating. Either you're alone, talking to yourself.. Or there's a you, and a me who you are talking to. 'You' can't convince 'me' it's the former without believing it's the latter.

@Carl-Richard sure. Are they any 'different'? Any 'difference' can only be known relatively (through duality). Oneness means Absolute/Relative is just an imaginary duality which can be transcended by understanding they are the same thing (hence conflating the twoness, into oneness).

@Mannyb I doubt Sam entertains the idea that he is a character in someone else's dream. He is pretty adamant that the self is an illusion, without making any claims about 'who' is the Illustrator. His point is- if there's no 'materialism', then there is no 'you' or 'me' who can be 'convinced' of anything. Without being lost in the dream, there are no characters in the dream.

@Mannyb it would be ridiculous for me to think I'm a character in someone else's dream.

@Mannyb the characters of my dream only exist while I'm in it. To admit of the 'realness' of the characters in my dream is to be lost in the dream.

@Mannyb 'I' could only ever explain it to 'him' while predenting it's not true. This would be tantamount to convincing a character in my dream that they are just a character in my dream.

@Mannyb good thing I'm alone (oneness), and there is no company.

@Mannyb Sam and I agree that it doesn't matter, unless it does.

@Mannyb which again, is Sam's point. This 'limited' contraction (dualism, materialism) is the only paradigm in which this conversation ever 'matters'.

Yes, consciousness must limit itself for there to even be 'something', rather than 'nothing/everything'.

Which has never been done. Who, exactly would recognize this?

How can you have integrated 'oneness' and still believe there is a separate thing called 'Sam Harris'? 'finite minds' only exist when we don't know oneness.

@Mannyb which is what we are all doing whenever we talk to 'each other'.

@Mannyb does he? 'Consciousness is the one thing that can not be an illusion' - Sam Harris 'I might be a brain in a vat' - Sam Harris I don't think he's committed to the notion that the Universe 'exists'.

If you think there's a Sam Harris who doesn't 'get it', that only comes from a place of 'not getting it'.

Who does? Sam Harris, wave, who is actually You, ocean?

@Mannyb who are you talking to? Yourself?

@Natasha 'you are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it, you ARE the storm' - Sam Harris. Does this sound like Harris doesn't grasp the concept of 'oneness'?

Perhaps.. will you run out and rob a bank today?