Raze

No it wasn’t, their original charter called for a Palestinian state between the river and the sea, and some rhetoric about expelling Jewish immigrants from Europe, but not all Jews. Btw, that charter was written by like 12 people under siege while Israel was literally massacring 1000 civilians during the first intifada. This is from their 2017 charter: This is far closer to the international legal consensus than Israel’s position, from Likud’s charter: The PA doesn’t call for ethnic cleansing, yet prior to oct 7 they were actually undergoing more ethnic cleansing from Israel as they built settlements in the West Bank and demolished Palestinian homes. And again, what a group would hypothetically want to do is not the same as what another group actually did and is doing. Israel did the nakba and is trying to do it again, actually doing ethnic cleansing is worse than a group that would hypothetically want to do it if they could. If I ethnically cleanse your family and occupy them, and you say you’d like to ethnically cleanse me if you could after I did that, then I start trying to ethnically cleanse your family again, it would absurd to put me and you on the same level. And even more absurd to absolve others for supporting me while I do that while denouncing you for wanting to do it.

- these are quotes from the founder of Hamas - in the end you are responsible for what you do, not what you would hypothetically want to do. International law as a position of two states on 1967 Borders, Hamas said in the past they would accept a long term ceasefire in exchange for it, more recently they’ve said they’d disarm for it or give up power to the PA. Israel says their will not be a Palestinian state and it wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza. - western countries are enabling Israel to do this, they are not enabling Hamas to do this, therefore they are complicit in acts as bad as what they claim Hamas wants.

Polls find the majority of Israelis support full ethnic cleansing of Gaza and blocking all aid. It isn’t just the deep right wing.

Hamas’s goal was capturing Israelis to trade for Palestinian prisoners. Israels goal is complete destruction of Gaza and its people. Israel has *worse* intentions. Even if it didn’t, the idea that intentions absolve you of doing worse than the people you call evil terrorists is absurd.

The Israeli army has admitted over 80% of casualties are civilian. https://www.ha-makom.co.il/1058990-2/ This is a ratio of 4.5 civilians per 1 combatant. For comparison for the US in Iraq and Afghanistan it was 2-3 combatants per 1 civilian. And on Oct 7 it was 2.1 civilians per 1 combatant. they’ve done that repeatedly in the past https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Yunis_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Rafah_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre Also, this is the account from IDF soldiers on the current war https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-18/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-expose-arbitrary-killings-and-rampant-lawlessness-in-gazas-netzarim-corridor/00000193-da7f-de86-a9f3-fefff2e50000

The far right bros will memory hole this, I guarantee it.

No, they weren’t. What was offered at best required letting israel maintain 80% of its illegal settlements which split apart all across their land, annex more vital land, and give israel control of palestines airspace, borders (which again tear apart the state), and have the right to invade at any time. In other words, permanent occupation, not an actual state. Oct 7 saw 900 civilians killed. Gaza has see over 50,000. The only reason you could consider those at all comparable is if you think Palestinian life is worth less. If you want a more accurate comparison, look up deir yassin, Qibya, sabra and shatila, Gaza 2008, Gaza 2014, or the great march of return. Of course all done to Palestinians, and before oct 7 when everyone acts like it all started. The “rising peace” was Israel trying to force normalization with Saudi Arabia while refusing to grant Palestinians freedom, even showing a map of the new Middle East where Palestine didn’t exist. Thats like saying apartheid South Africa had peace. Maybe peace for Israelis, but not for the millions of Palestinians living under a brutal occupation which israel was trying to cement as permanent. The Arab peace initiative has been on the table for decades, it offers full normalization as long as Israel just follows international law and stops occupying Palestine. It was rejected. The US has unilaterally blocked a two state solution at the UN every year when, literally every other country in the world votes for it. The US is in fact the problem. How exactly can they join us in the “21st century” when Israel kept 2 million under a blockade in Gaza, so brutal that it had 40% unemployment because israel purposefully crushed the economy, and after going on regular bombardments caused the majority to have serious depression and majority of children to have signs of ptsd, in addition to lack of access to clean water, and the other 2 million occupied in the West Bank. With their land systematically stolen by settlers, who regularly go on pogroms against them. By September, 2023 was already the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the West Bank since the intifada. This is the “peace” you were referring to. It doesn’t matter if you’re tired of the “poor Palestinians” thing, they are a occupied population facing brutal repression. They have not refused every chance to gain a resolution. Go look up the UN votes on a two state solution. This is just Israeli propaganda to justify their repression and subjugation. The Oslo accords were not giving them a state, it was supposed to eventually lead to it, but Netanyahu himself brags about sabotoging it. “From the river to the sea” is the moral position, ideally you would have all who live from the river to the sea have full equal rights. That was the PLO’s original goal, a equal binational state. But israel brutally fought them until they submitted to the concept of partition. Even Hamas, though they’d of course prefer complete control, altered their position in 2017 to say they’d accept a long term ceasefire in exchange for a state on the 1967 borders. The problem is, Israel refuses to give up its occupation of Palestine. They have said multiple times that they are against a Palestinian state. Zionism is a colonial ideology, the early zionists themselves referred to it as colonialism. Other ethnic groups exist correct, one such group is Palestinians, who in order to maintain their racial supremacist state Israel keeps brutally occupied without human rights and engages in regular massacres of. It’s also interesting you say it’s a trope to say the conflict goes back thousands of years, yet then bring up Arab colonialism. It also doesn’t go back thousands of years, prior to Zionism Palestinians lived peaceful to with a Jewish and Christian minority.

Fighting soldiers maintaining an apartheid and keeping you in a ghetto is legitimate under international law. Ukraine has also killed civilians, that doesn’t mean their armed resistance against Russian occupation is illegitimate. Why should Palestinian be any different, their occupation is far more brutal. The level of dehumanization they have been put under is insane. It’s absurd that its a legitimate political position in liberal countries to believe millions of people of a certain race somehow don’t have a right to fight their oppressors, shouldn’t have equal rights, and it is excusable to kill or punish them collectively as a group.

- you’re assuming the narrative is what makes men not adjust socially, rather than the reality that the male role was deconstructed and they are socially flailing, causing a rise in underground masculinity ideologies as a symptom of it - By this logic women should be less frustrated with guys, men are much less traditionally masculine and more feminine and liberal in western countries than ever before, the manosphere stuff is recent and a small minority. We should be seeing sensitive feminine egalitarian men having women throw themselves at them. But they don’t, and women just become more and more frustrated, because the reality is they want masculinity, not the sensitive gender neutral male ideology you promote even if they claim that’s what they want. - the reason why their is emphasis on male and female differences and “treat her like a child”, is because if men go into interactions as though she is man he is platonically interacting with, he will be flat and logical and it will go nowhere. On the other hand if he goes in with the perspective of himself as a male and her as a female, he will naturally create a polarity through things like teasing and flirting. Treating her as a child relates to not taking the interaction seriously and leading. An example of this would be how women purposefully try to test and provoke men to see how reactive they are, when if he doesn’t react to it or views it like a joke as though it’s a child doing it to him he passes the test. Men are also expected by women to lead and move things forward in basically every level, this wouldn’t be understood from a default perspective of viewing her the same way he’d view a platonic interaction with an adult man. - the reality is what you promote is actually the dominant ideology in secular mainstream western cultures, men are feminized, have an egalitarian perspective, and view what women say as vitally important. They weren’t learning manosphere stuff in schools or on tv. And it’s a disaster for them dating wise, they can’t create polarity, they don’t take the lead, they fall for false advice women give or become overly reactive when she tries to provoke them, then they end up watching themselves be used economically and emotionally while the “toxic guys” who do the opposite of what they were told is right get all the attention. Then they try to bring back masculinity through their neurotic perspective now informed by bitterness. Your analysis ignores this entire movement and acts as though the manosphere stuff is the source for all the issues, as opposed to what it actually is, a reaction to the mainstream failure and a fringe group at that. I doubt more than 5% of men take manosphere stuff seriously. .

Arab peace initiative was offered, and rejected by Israel.

Where does it say she was a Muslim doing it for Palestine? I only see articles saying she’s a German national and didn’t have a political motive.

What terrorism has Hamas done outside of Israel/Palestine? That’s absurd, events like siege of Beirut, sabra and shatila, cast lead, protective edge, and the great march of return had far more incidents of targeting civilians backed or done by Israel than Oct 7. Of course they’ll say it was about militants, but so will Hamas about oct 7. Israel was even doing things like Qibya or Rafah / Khan Yunis 1956 that didn’t have that excuse. In the current war they have destroyed or damaged 90% of buildings, killed over 15,000 children and maimed 100K+, and are now literally trying to starve over 1 million children. How on earth is that in any way comparable to oct 7, which had under 900 civilians die, and we don’t even know how many hamas killed since Israel admitted they used the Hannibal directive. Terrorism is targeting civilians for political goals, israel is trying to wipe civilians out for ethnic nationalist goals. That is worse. Aparthied is worse than terrorism fighting against apartheid, because the terrorism is individual acts of violence, the apartheid is a structure of persistent violence.

Leo’s post on Afghanistan is over Simplistic. Afghanistan had functioning cities, universities, and hospitals. What you’re referring to was among impoverished gangs and orphans living in the outer tribal areas who were recruited by war lords as the society got torn apart the soviets invaded and had killed millions.

That is absurd, every man can’t create everything from the ground up, society is built on men being initiated into the culture and give a set of guidelines

This happened just as the EU voted to reconsider ties. Hopefully it encourages more pushback.

I highly doubt that, trump will be so unpopular by than even Kamala can beat the republican.

I’ve debunked this to you multiple times now. You are either delusional or lying if you still think this. https://aoav.org.uk/2024/casualties-in-gaza-israels-claims-of-50-combatant-deaths-dont-add-up-at-least-74-of-the-dead-are-civilians/ The ratio in Gaza is much worse than Syria, which was an actual massive war for over a decade with many sides and much worse ratio wise than the US in iraq or Afghanistan. This is a one sided bombardment. Speaking of an Israeli genocide scholar who repeatedly denied it was a genocide interviewed a Dutch newspaper and not only said it was a genocide but said there seems to be a consensus in his field about it. https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2025/05/14/zeven-gerenommeerde-wetenschappers-vrijwel-eensgezind-israel-pleegt-in-gaza-genocide-a4893293 You can stop acting like you’re different from Netanyahu or the right in Israel, on this issue you are as much of a monster as them.

You can stop this act. We all saw you cheering this on for months. We see the polls showing pluralities of Israelis support ethnic cleaning and forced starvation. Netanayhu is representative of Israeli society, what they don’t like about him is his domestic policies and corruption.

That’s a historically illiterate perspective. Most freedom struggles had upsurges of violence before they were achieved. Examples being slavery, the civil rights movement, British India, or apartheid south Africa.

Nope, life under other dictatorships is far superior to what israel does to Palestinians. You’d be way better off living in Egypt or Jordan.

No they didn’t. Zionists colonized the land and ethnically cleansed them, now it occupies them. Palestinians have been reasonable, they didn’t even have a military when zionists formed militias and started slaughtering them, they spent years under occupation without fighting back, they’ve tried peaceful protest and just get killed, the arab peace initiative was offered but Israel rejects it to further occupy them. Hamas rockets are not the problem, they are a reaction to the problem. Israel has been killing and subjugating them for decades before Hamas even existed.

At least Hamas has the excuse of being orphans born in a ghetto. Israel is the same despite being populated by privileged immigrants, and they commit their violence on a far larger scale.

That’s because society became feminized and feminized them

Since Oct 7 Israel’s international approval is collapsing, its economy is hurting and many are leaving. It could cause a chain reaction to eventually free the Palestinians.

Yeah but it’s kind of their fault. Had they been behaving differently they’d be complaining the men are too aggressive and demanding reforms to get to this point again.