Raze

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

It wasn’t 100 years, prior to Zionism Palestinians lived peacefully with Christian and Jewish minorities. They began trying to resist Zionist occupiers who entered their and started forming militias and terror groups. Their premise being hatred of Israel is irrelevant to the bigger issue of Israel’s *actions* being the continued destruction of Palestine, which is what actually matters and is happening. Ideally you would stop giving a group reasons to hate you instead of expecting continued torture of them will somehow solve the issue. ITs really no different than people who said ending Jim Crow can’t happen because black people resent white people, though (israel is far more brutal than Jim Crow). Yes, if you torment people they will hate you, that doesn’t give you license to torment them endlessly.

Wikileaks leaked emails revealing Israeli officials admit they keep Gazas economy on the brink of collapse https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna40926651 They can’t “grow the economy” when it is blockaded to stop that from happening, Gaza has a high literacy rate and high amount of college graduates but they usually end up unemployed with no ability to change it. Israel even limits how much they can fish and regularly kills Gazan fishermen. In the West Bank israel uses various tactics to make life there nearly unlivable. Palestinians are forced to wait hours outside checkpoints, there are plenty of documented cases of pregnant women being forced to give birth on the road because they won’t open them. It’s only suicide of Israel as a Jewish supremacist state that’s based on subjugation of Palestinians. Palestinains hate Israel’s subjugation of them, yes. The same way south africans hated whites who oppressed them during apartheid. In the case of apartheid whites were only 10% of the population, while Israelis are 50%, so they actually had more to fear. But it seems Israel’s internal racism is much stronger than apartheid and they are far less willing to give up their dream of an ethnosupremacist project built on someone else’s home. If you really want a two state solution will you and the IDF go and forcibly remove the hundreds of thousands of settlers who were specifically placed there to stop a two state solution? Let me guess, no. There’s almost no point in talking to you because everything is in one ear and out the other. ”why complain”. You haven’t disputed a single point I made, those would be the reasons people complain. If a country was keeping millions of Jews occupied without human rights, regularly arresting them without trial, allowing Muslims to demolish their homes and move in, regularly killing them, would you say “why are Jews complaining, just be good sports and let it happen”? No. But you have some bizarre dehumanizations of Muslims that not only do you think they are all violent and unreasonable but somehow they should also accept being endlessly brutalized in unreasonable circumstances. The former Israeli prime minister and the former head of Israel’s own internal security both admitted if they were Palestinian they’d take up arms and fight israel because of what they go through. It’s quite silly even the leaders involved with designing the actual situation of Palestinians can see this but you can’t. Sometimes I feel like people like you know very well but act obtuse for some reason. And again, the Muslim states have offered israel full normalization if it just gives up the occupation of remaining Palestinian territories, the last time a actual Muslim state (not a gurella force) attacked Israel was decades ago. Their position is in line with international law and agreed upon by nearly every other country in the world, feel free to look up the UN vote for two states.

No arab state has gone to war with Israel in decades. Israel has been fighting small rebel groups formed among populations it subjugates or subjugated at one point.

Ideally they’d end their racial supremacist states and grant Palestinians equal rights as Israeli citizens. That being said they won’t do that, and international law dictates you can’t occupy millions of people without rights based on race as that is apartheid, so they should agree to a two state solution, but they block it at the UN. The PA acknowledged Israel and gave up trying to destroy it, even Hamas offered a ten year ceasefire in exchange for a state. A better question is, what should Palestinians do about a colony that’s own ruling parties charter says they are against a Palestinian state and thus any form of Palestinian self determination, and are actively destroying Palestine through illegal settlement growth, detaining thousands, and regular mass murder, and now even ethnic cleansing and forced starvation.

If Muslim countries or groups do that while claiming to represent Muslims, yes they are partially responsible if it causes a rise in bigotry against Muslims. If a Muslim agrees that they represent Muslims, they can’t turn around and complain about Islam a phobia because of their actions because they further that very narrative. Similar to how you refer to Israel as “we” and say Israel represents the Jewish religion, if you say this you are adding to the conflation between blaming Jews for what Israel does.

The Muslim countries offered full normalization with Israel through the Arab peace initiative. Israel rejected it. Palestinains attempted many peaceful protests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests The PA controls the West Bank and gave up armed resistance to Israel years ago, yet Israel just expanded settlements and allow settlers to regularly beat and kill Palestinians. If someone kicks you out of your home and occupies you without rights while regularly torturing and arresting your family members and purposefully crushing your economy, and they do this for decades and publicly say they will do it forever, why exactly would you work with them? You are acting as though israel was doing nothing this entire time and Palestinians out of nowhere attack for no reason. By September, 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the West Bank since the first intifada. That was months before oct 7. In Gaza Israel’s blockade had gotten to the point where they had nearly half unemployment, limited access to clean water, and extremely high rates of depression and PTSD.

Israel controlled Gaza’s airspace, everything that officially enters its borders, and regularly killed Gazans inside of it. It’s not a “state”, it’s a massive ghetto. Israel isn’t fighting until Hamas surrenders, they already rejected Hamas giving up power to the PA and openly say the goal is to make Gaza unlivable and ethnically cleanse the population. Israel itself doesn’t consider it a state and makes it official state policy to stop a Palestinian state.

Actually that was Israel’s official hasbara about how Palestinians are “brainwashed”, they would constantly point to textbooks http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/yale-professor-blasts-blindness-of-israeli-education-minister-over-school-textbook-report-1.501475 What you’re linking to are the actual random cherry-picked clips as opposed to something like textbooks which would show a consistent operation of an education system. We can do the same for israel https://forward.com/opinion/197866/when-israelis-teach-their-kids-to-hate/

Study of textbooks found Palestinian textbooks weren’t antisemitic https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-08-10/ty-article/.premium/no-palestinian-textbooks-are-not-antisemitic/0000017f-f1ff-d223-a97f-fdff7f7f0000 The hatred isn’t because of the school system, it’s because israel has murdered thousands of civilians and occupies millions without rights.

Not really. - it is having a major brain drain, which is a big issue since it’s a highly stratified society. - it has dangerous levels of political polarization - it relies on international support which is called into question as international public support is declining rapidly - the economy has suffered a lowered credit rating, high debt, and rising cost of living Like I already said your analysis is based on two faulty assumptions, the more developed side will always be more moral and will always win. That isn’t true. A simple, example is Apartheid South Africa. White South Africans were more economically developed than South Africans, yet they lost control and the South Africans now treat them far better than they treated blacks during apartheid. (Not to say they don’t face mistreatment). You need to let go of the idea israel is some bastion of enlightened western liberals. When polled 66% said they would vote for Trump over Kamala. Among younger Israelis it was something insane like 90%. https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-shows-israelis-massively-favor-trump-over-harris-in-us-election/

These are UN votes on the issue. It isn’t leftists vs everyone else. It’s everyone else and leftists vs Israel and its lobby

This is how hamas justifies oct 7, yes.

Illegal settlements grew under every prime minister.

Yes, they can’t do whatever they want because of international pressure, but the polls show what the majority would be ok with if they could. Trump won among voters, not necessarily the whole population, also it was a choice between him and Kamala, not overall.

Haaretz has only 4% readership, it’s a small minority,

We have polls now showing the majority of Israelis want Gaza starved and half want all Gazans killed. Find me a similar poll for Americans regarding Afghanis. When a news report revealed American soldiers were torturing Iraqis at a prison, there was widespread outrage in America. When it was revealed israel was torturing Palestinians in sde teiman and are on video raping one, polls showed the majority of Israelis don’t believe they should be criminally prosecuted.

Then how do you explain polls showing the majority of Israelis want all aid to Gaza blocked?

Is Hamas demolishing the homes of Israelis and moving in armed violent Palestinians who regularly go on rampages beating and killing Israelis in their own homes every year where the Israeli government doesn’t even defend itself? No, but israel is doing that to palestinians in the West Bank, who is the rat in the pan in this scenario. Nothing about what israel is doing is about dealing with Hamas. If they actually wanted to deal with Hamas, why did they - send funds to Hamas - not guard the Gaza border - reject Hamas’s offer for a ten year ceasefire in exchange for a state - reject Hamas’s offer to disarm in exchange for a state - reject the offer for Hamas to give up power to the PA Netanyahu himself has stated multiple times the goal is ethnic cleansing, which you acknowledge, why do you keep repeating that they are just “dealing with Hamas”? The homeless man scenario implies it happens randomly and force is the only option. A more accurate comparison would be if you kept the homeless man locked inside a prison for years and limited his food supply and regularly beat him while arresting his family members, then he busts out and attacks you and kidnaps your family, and says he’ll give them back if you stop attacking him, and you say no. That’s what israel is doing.

The issue isn’t killing thousands of civilians, the issue is the US saw that as a byproduct to be minimized while it targets enemy combatants. Israel sees punishing civilians as the goal to advance ethnic cleansing. We can see this in ratios, in the US wars they killed more combatants than civilians (directly), even in Syria which involves Russia and Iran and ISIS over 80% of the casualties were adult men. Meanwhile in Gaza israel has blocked food and medicine, destroyed nearly every hospital and school, and under 40% of the casualties are adult men, and Israeli politicians have stated multiple times the goal is to make Gaza unlivable and ethnically cleanse the population. Vox interviewed four genocide / international law scholars in 2023, and only one said they thought Israel was committing a genocide, then in 2024 they interviewed them again and only one thought they weren’t committing a genocide. A Dutch newspaper interviewed seven genocide scholars in 2025, all said they believe Israel is committing genocide, and some even said they didn’t know anyone in their field who thought it wasn’t. Even if they are somehow all wrong, the fact that the genocide discussion is seriously on the table means Israel is comment war crimes far beyond what the US did in the war on terror.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOctI24m_mQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTyqhn6Z3BQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHuEke_0VPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taqY9EvchHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8k4UiDwSJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TILyiv8UsSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJr17ulat9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb2Uat_hGSc

And they were forced to let in some aid so as to not look bad. They said this themselves. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/05/19/israel-gaza-aid-netanyahu/ They also weren’t allowed to stop the water as they wanted from day 1, and had to settle for destroying some water desalination facilities. This is false, most analysts believe they could make nukes if they wanted to. https://thebulletin.org/2025/01/how-quickly-could-iran-build-its-first-nuclear-weapon-look-at-china/ There is no indication they have tried to weaponize their nuclear program

https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-it-may-be-justified-to-starve-2-million-gazans-but-world-wont-let-us/