possibilities

@Inliytened1 the only wisdom I’ve seen you demonstrate is the capacity to proselytize, I wouldn’t call that wise though. And that’s a good idea to refrain from speaking if you can’t add critical discussion, that to the contrary, is wise.

This is not addressing OP, now you’re being deceptive by avoiding the obvious. Please stay on topic, thank you.

@Inliytened1 as per my comments above I’d appreciate it if you stopped proselytising and derailing the thread here, thank you.

What isn’t brainwashing? Hypothetically, something analogous to a situation in which both persons are arguing against their own position and then the two parties seeing who wins (meaning what position truly stands after this kind of scrutiny). Needless to say, brainwashing is extremely prevalent given the rarity of this. The only difference is by degrees as it’s a subject with many different colours, tones, etc. Yes Leo brainwashes people, he pokes and prods throughout his videos with statements like “you don’t understand”, “see you’re not awake you’re unconscious”, the videos are also like a black hole given how long they go for. He doesn’t treat his viewers as equals and respect the susceptibility of brainwashing even though he would know a lot about it. This stuff has been studied extensively and it’s easy to find a lot out about it, which is what I recommend people do. So in this sense he’s obviously strategic. I don’t think it’s wise to choose between brain washing but if you had to better to be brainwashed by Leo than McDonalds. I’ll still learn from Leo though because at least he does make an effort to create good content out of interesting subjects. People like Jordan Peterson, Tai Lopez and others, they do the same thing. Jordan paints the great illusion that he’s not at all a predator in this regard, he’s got many to buy in and put down their guard so he can plant his seeds. Most people do not try nearly as hard, they’re unknowingly both predators and prey, many of which you don’t want to be brainwashed by, but it’s almost inevitable that we’re going to be persuaded given how social we are as a species and in saying so, gullible and naive. We let down our guard for those we trust, our parents, teachers and many others then they seek (unknowingly/knowingly) to infect us with their poorly thought out beliefs. My only suggestion is to critically think about your own, really study the subject of belief and how it occurs in your consciousness.

OP I guess I was addressing other comments of which can be used as an example of brainwashing, at least as it pertains to sharing a relationship. In my second paragraph I provide a context for this by addressing brainwashing directly. Its all about the signal to noise ratio (with respect to truth versus on truth). For the prey, to reduce the noise, for the predator, to increase the noise and introduce the false perception of a signal. Many are unknowingly both prey and predator.

I remember one aspect of one dream haha, one moment that was most memorable was in a dream involving myself and my nephew who’s two months older. I was showing him around what appeared to be my home but this home was particularly unusual. It didn’t look anything like it but the rooms seemed to represent time portals. For example before allowing him to go into one room I said, “Oh don’t worry about that one (room) it’s just got old things but feel free to!”. He proceeded to go in and amidst pushing back a clothes hanger frame to gain entrance we both started hearing an electrical guitar playing (so two versions of myself existed - my present self and this 16 year old version of myself playing electric guitar). It was me in my high school uniform playing electric guitar haha. He looked simultaneously bemused and interested. Thats all I really remember. Haha unfortunately no lucidity. I tried all the suggestions, will try again tonight.

Feel free to share your insights, experiences, advice, lessons and so on. I’ll begin training tonight, hopefully will accomplish my first lucid dreaming experience by the end of the week where from then on I make it a regular part of my routine.

Direct experience isn’t the absolute truth. There’s a lot of things misguided by that belief. Many people after all suffer from numerous illnesses, from physical to mental, which hinder their capacity for conscious perception. Moreover to assume that conscious perception from a regular persons perspective is the absolute truth is also misguided, experience of truth varies widely among people based on capacities moreover the human organism itself has not presently been shown capable of perceiving the absolute truth by way of limitations in sense perception and cognitive processing of that information. Thus the notion of absolute truth is already hindered a the first line of attack for absolute truth seekers, the inability to perceive it, so now they’re theoretically constrained and are basing their capacity to perceive absolute truth based on their capacity for theoretical thought which not only has problems by way of a human not having access to a complete picture of sense perception, they are limited by way of cognitive perception. This all comes down to a signal to noise ratio, reduce all the noise and you have the absolute truth, everyone differs on their level of their noise and the human organism itself has limitations as to the degree of noise it can reduce relative to its biological constraints. On the subject of brainwashing well you can seek how easy it is for people and other beings to take advantage of others who’s signal to noise ratio is proportionally distorted. You simply need to learn the manner in which it can be sorted, the likelihood of distortion based from the perspective of not just biological abilities (from level of intelligence to personality propensities) but informational relationships the person already has (I.e. this builds a psychological understanding - maybe they’re religious, maybe they’ve been through trauma, maybe they know what kind of close relationships they have and form and so on).

He still does better than most. He uses a scalpel instead of a religious text, I’d trust a doctor over a ‘believer’ in this sense.

From a collectivists perspective, Sam Harris’s position here has value, this is from a collectivists perspective (there are many other perspectives we could of course reference on this subject) though. It does not carefully differentiate itself from utilitarianism, which means it is not new, just a different coating of paint in the exploration of neuroscientific understandings to facilitate utilitarian decisions.

I’ll have a listen. I don’t know anyone that approaches these subjects with the degree of sophistication required but they’re all offering different ingredients to the pie. I personally don’t have an answer to these ideas yet myself, I just know that before I have such an answer I will need to climb many more theoretical mountains before my own answer has considerable esteem. ”To throw a wrench at Godzilla” that is unfortunately what we mostly have these days from speakers on various subjects.

This might be useful. I made two responses there.

Leo made a video about people giving their authority away which touches on this, however what I think is more specific terminology is power (I.e. giving away their power) and the construction of power (from the individual human to the ‘beginning’ of the universe). Power, perceived power and it’s distribution is a very nuanced subject that is probably one of the most important for a student of life to understand if they really want to know where they fit in the grand scheme of things, it’s even in some ways more important than understanding how beliefs are created given power goes to the heart of why they are created. Many people unknowingly put the power (some refer to it as responsibility in this sense or authority) in the hands of others to supply them with some unmet need, some desire, without ever really contemplating or negotiating the contract they’re unconsciously making with the supplier/s. Whether this be a personal relationship, a fast food company, a certain celebrity, a teacher or company they work for. Or even as it pertains to thought constructs their consciousness has created, say with respect to giving their power away to attachments to the past, some belief they “just have to believe in” (for whatever reason, perhaps to feel like they belong to some group, which is also related to power) and so on. Power infects every aspect of society, an individual, history and existence itself as far as I’ve reasoned for better and for worse say relative to some utilitarian value set (just to frame better/worse given these kinds of ethics can be relative to reference frames). Its a subject that is quite complicated and in depth so you’ll need to do your own thinking on it. It would take Leo at least a series of 10 1+ hour videos to cover it adequately given just how much of existence it touches on beyond the stereotypical status game humans play so I’m not sure you’ll see him do it anytime soon. He could do a mini series on it though who knows. Once this subject is truly understood though so many other things will be understood about existence like dominoes falling from this first point of comprehension. A good text is Nietzsche’s Will To Power but it even goes much further than this. https://archive.org/stream/TheWillToPower-Nietzsche/will_to_power-nietzsche_djvu.txt Nietzsche was a pretty conscious fellow as well, here’s a quote from the text: “Through thought the ego is posited; but hitherto one believed as ordinary people do, that in "I think" there was something of immediate certainty, and that this "I" was the given cause of thought, from which by analogy we understood all other causal relationships. However habitual and indispensable this fiction may have become by now--that in itself proves nothing against its imaginary origin: a belief can be a condition of life and nonetheless be false.”

This is a very simple to solve actually. To me it seems like it’s because you’ve given up your mental independence, you feel you cannot entertain yourself or come up with answers by yourself. I would practice imagining situations of helplessness, because that seems to what you’re experiencing, then imagine overcoming those situations step by step (so not magically. Imagine you’ve been stuck to your chair for 10 hours straight with a VR headset on that you just can’t get out of because you’re just so engrossed in what’s happening because the the content in the VR I’d feeding you the illusion that you’re fulfilling some existential purpose when in reality it’s slowly killing any such thing. How will you stop the addiction? What steps are you going to take inside your mind to take off the VR knowing that it’s not boredom (or needing to go to the toilet, or go eat something, let’s say the VR is so engrossing it stops those impulses) that is going to get you to take it off? What internal recognition will you have to make? What new beliefs around your competency to generate your own internal content (from entertainment to problem solving) will you need to make? What past situations (maybe past situations of feeling helpless - make a list then one by one imagine overcoming those situations and what lessons you generated to overcome them to help you with the virtual situations you create in your mind) will you need to heal from in order to overcome prior psychological conditioning that led you to this situation?

The secret to life is mastery. That is all. Do not allow your own mind to be mastered, that is the only way you shall fulfil your purpose, if there is any. Come up with techniques, practice these techniques to strengthen your mind. Be creative. Be consistent.

Thx everyone I’ll try these tonight, haha @Serotoninluv yeah I’m looking forward to something similar

But what if I’m the next Hitler? Would you have killed Hitler if you were a nurse in the hospital in which he was born and you (1) were not going to get caught (2) knew he would grow up to become Hitler? This is actually a trick question and I’ll break the ice quickly, it goes to the nature of absolute truth. See the correct response, reasonably speaking, is to not kill Adolf (his first name), because you’d have to be mad to believe that it was the absolute truth he was going to grow up to be Hitler. So absolute truth to me is reserved for the mad, I work more probabilistically haha. So based on that little story, thanks and likewise.

You don’t understand yet. Your consciousness is a belief making machine, you’ve just created the belief that I’m somehow “against” someone here. I recommend you notice that. Oh I am open minded haha, Leo’s mentioned nothing new to me though I have learned from him. You’ve brought up this topic so I’ll be frank about it. He’s just a dude, one of 300 million plus other people in the US, we’re all learning from one another. I think Leo and any teacher for that matter is being gullible if they take what they say as absolute truth, they’re not aware enough of their own short potential comings if that’s the case, that’s the same for any person attempting to teach. And as for other people taking what any person says as absolute truth without proper thinking, well to the butcher with them, as they’re not doing themselves any favours. What I find interesting is that it seems Leo has an agenda, this is clear. Again this isn’t bad/good I’m just pointing out the obvious and I’m sure Leo isn’t going to take offence. He is strategising about the kinds of beliefs he shares, the ways in which he says them and the kind of response he wants to generate from his viewers. In his use of certain words on the forum for example, there’s the expectation that you know of and follow in accord with his teaching, this is indicative of someone that wants to create a culture. And this is the nature of his endeavour here, you see that pattern play out more systematically as time progresses. And although I have learned from him as stated, I’ll be honest and say I am a little skeptical about the manner in which he attempts to teach (many contradictions, no written content, lengthy videos as opposed to systematically organised videos that can be interpreted in a more organised way). Theres no need to hide open conversation as to his motives, it’s just plain honest talk. Moreover there isn’t one teaching I can think of that is flat out wrong, so in this sense I’ve discovered value, but again he’s just a dude and we all need refinement. He believes himself to be trans now, and that’s cool to, his body-mind can believe whatever it wants. In that sense, this isn’t what I’d call an “open forum”, it is a forum in which he teaches his beliefs to others and the uncritical mass of people walk in wide eyed and gullible or the cynical shun away and criticise. I am neither, any ideas you have that differ are mere beliefs, thought structures based on your reference experiences. Its a fascinating study in some ways actually, I mean given the way the US operates it’s really nothing new, they (from government to business to otherwise) specialise in propagandising the public, conformity, marketing manipulation and so on so Leo has been indoctrinated in a way to become a teacher who generates and propagates beliefs. His goal if I’m correct is to do his best at propagating the best beliefs he knows and can create based on what he believes to be his consciousness work. So in as much as this is true you could probably say that this is a noble goal, however in saying that, it would do people much good if they spent most of their time working out how beliefs are constructed in and by their consciousness, much revelations will come to them from this endeavour and they’ll be much more protected by those who have blatant malicious intent. All in all Leo’s all good, a bit dogmatic relative to what I’ve experienced in life and where I’m from but that’s just from what I’ve experienced and have come to know in my own mind, of which, I recommend you make little assumptions about. But yeah, of course, as point already stated, all of this is just belief stuff.

So is that. Haha. What’s more likely to be true, something you believe outside of this moment or the fact that you’re reading this comment right now? Or that you can read anything at all? It’s an aspect of subtle differences in belief that need to be taken into consideration. Leo specialises in the art of rearranging belief. This is not bad/good but it’s something I’m guessing most people that visit here probably don’t understand the mechanics of.

@Peanut Everything is just a belief but believe what you want of course, this is your game and your game alone to play. To me the trick is to not get attached like many people do here who merely rearrange their beliefs (I.e. from non believer to believer). They’re not seeing the game of belief at play here deeply enough, so to me, they fall for its deceptive powers. I have many theories about things, but these theories are just reference frames relative to what I have experienced or one step further, what experiences I believe have experienced. Because in the end who knows, maybe anything, like maybe nothing about this has any truth or real-ness to it whatsoever, my body-mind likes to keep its options open, perhaps I could have been created just a few moments ago and I’ve been programmed to experience (I.e. beliefs) everything up to this moment. This isn’t a popular way to go because many body-minds have that “need to belong” and it’s obviously really strong for humans, whether it be the belief in a self, non belief in a self and an “oh I see through the illusion now”, whether it be their belief in meditation; and “that’s the way to go” or “I am enlightened now”, or “I am in stage orange/yellow/turquoise!”, or “I am at the highest degree of ego development relative to this prestigious so and so!!!” The list goes on and on, same thing from culture to culture, demographic to demographic, these consciousnesses are just wearing different clothing and in doing so, names to go by. I really want to see a pink elephant demographic though haha, that is a whole group of people that believe themselves to be pink elephants. It’d be humorous. Perspective is key.

@Conrad I guarantee you no matter how much psychedelics I take I’m never going to be a god person beyond theory. To me people who believe in god aren’t humble enough, they’re reaching conclusions through belief, theory and the sensation. All three I’ve had and do have but I know it’s just a game my consciousness is playing. Becoming a preacher on this topic is becoming popular, that’s never likely going to be my thing and I find it (1) unusual (2) totally typical (3) good if it helps people (4) disturbing because people are losing touch with what they’re experiencing right now in this moment and then they convert others away from the truth of the moment and not getting lost in belief but hope you had a good trip

@Serotoninluv Yeah, I know. Preaching to the choir! I avoid beliefs on any issue. I could be an iguana. Right now I’m a patient to medical doctors that mark me as “patient 59”, you will imagine me what you will inevitably imagine me as so will everyone else here. They cannot avoid it. You will never know me, none of you will. Nor I you.

@Serotoninluv you’re having an identity crisis ?, don’t assume you can predict the state of my consciousness. Trust me, you can’t (unless of course you’ve developed supernatural powers - something which isn’t out of the question).

@Leo Gura I think the devil thing is cute but to me it’s got low utility. Sure the body can use it as consciousness content to fabricate some parameters to “watch out for” but you’ve made it far more real than it really is in the video, I’m sure this isn’t the case but it makes your image look like it lacks integration, I also noted logical consistencies and not because of “well that’s the wonders of paradox”. That’s just from an outsiders perspective relative to my consciousnesses reference frames. I’m not going to bite about it though that’s your own reference frame, biting would be undesirably contracting my own. To me it is a “newbie” term even though that word isn’t the greatest to me either. I guess religious types would eat it up though if they’re looking to change their meanings, I also need to take into account that you’re from the US, given the following there’s gotta be at least 80% of people polling as religious. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_States

And @Leo Gura, @Serotoninluv. None of this is unusual or amazing to me, just know that there exists plenty of people who haven’t done psychedelics but still find these things perfectly normal because of other things they may have experienced in their minds and so on.