Parththakkar12

The purpose of taking a stand isn't to debate and prove yourself right! That's the whole point, you can never be 100% right. You want your action to be uni-directional. So, the stand you take is like an agenda which informs your course of action so that action goes seamlessly according to what you want to do. If you're certain about your stance, debating is just a waste of time and won't get you anywhere. Debating is useful when you're wanting to rub up against people you disagree with so that you're able to work on yourself/find your authentic beliefs/what you authentically want. At least that's how I decide to enter debates!

Women's problems with this system go a lot deeper than inequality/oversexualization/sexual vulnerability. Equality is not the cure-all that most people make it out to be. The ultimate conclusion of that would be that we'll live in a world of one homogeneous gender. But that's not the world we live in! There are very very fundamental differences between masculinity and femininity, even on an energetic level. Tell me this, have you felt into masculine energy/feminine energy? Have you studied the dynamics between them first hand? If you leave your paradigm of separation/zero-sum games and look at that, you'll see that what's good for one is good for everyone, because everyone is one! Deep emotional healing and conflict-repair is required on both sides. The physical embodiments of the masculine and feminine, aka men and women have hurt each other a lot and all of it needs to be brought to the surface and healed with each other. Now before women say 'No I didn't hurt men at all!' or 'I'm not responsible for what men did to me!', an implication of oneness is that you are the oppressor who's oppressing you! So doing this healing will take intense amounts of responsibility on both sides.

I know this! Everything I say comes after taking all of this into consideration. Women have had to fight tooth and nail against the status quo for their rights, and there've been men who resisted that. However, there've also been men who wanted these changes to happen and still want them to happen. Feminists would literally be dead in the water without these men! Imagine a scenario where all men ever wanted was to dominate, subjugate and control women. Feminists wouldn't stand a goddamn chance against that! Look at the times before the feminist movements happened. I'm not saying what anyone should do. I'm just telling you how it is. When I said 'all men' I meant 'men as a whole'. Men in general have chosen to implement and accept the changes proposed by feminists out of their free will, never forget that. (sometimes willingly, sometimes with resistance) If that weren't the case, women wouldn't have voting rights today. I see you having a filter of 'Feminism good, status quo bad' or in some cases 'Man bad, woman good'. There've been women who resisted feminism! How about you expand your perspective to integrate the ones that may not agree? It'll add nuance to your reasoning. (Just a suggestion, it's okay if you don't want to) I used to have this perspective, believe me, I've seen women suffer! My biggest concerns when I was a kid was that movies are male-oriented and male-dominated, and that they don't show me the female perspective.

All of these are perfectly legitimate problems. Not everyone would agree, but I do. The reality is, that we live in a patriarchy which is occupied by men. All solutions to these problems have to be approved by these men in power. Up until now, all men have been on board with all the equal rights, women in the workforce, overall betterment of women, etc. Had they not been on board, none of this would have ever happened! Potential solutions to these problems which arise from hate-mongering and vengeful ideations will literally not fly with the men in power! They will not help the feminist cause. If your solutions don't work for men, good luck implementing them!! Even if we solve all the inequality problems, heck if we reverse the 80/20 to 20/80, it'll still be a patriarchy, but with women in power! The system structure is fundamentally patriarchial and masculine in nature. Changing this would literally mean feminists design a new system from scratch, and then compare it with the current one. Then we'll consider uprooting the patriarchy! If you ask me what I think would work, I honestly have no clue! Solving problems like these isn't a one-man show (or even a one-committee show), the society literally has to evolve into a new system where both men and women find their authentic niche.

Also, the whole theory of 'Empowerment of women entails dis-empowerment/reverse oppression of men, so we'll empower women by dis-empowering, shaming and scapegoating men' assumes that if one side wins, the other one has to lose. It assumes separation and absolute existence of zero-sum game. A more conscious way of going about this would be to find the win-win scenarios which work for both sides. It'll require commitment from both sides to care about each other!

@Leo Gura Makes sense. There's aspects of Stage Blue that India hasn't gotten over yet like caste-system problems, cohesive positions on national security, problems with Pakistan, religious dogmatism, arranged marriages, etc. Then there's gonna be Stage Orange which will entail real industrial development and raising of the standard of living, which is not good currently! After that happens, we can maybe think about being libertarian/liberal and care about each other. India has a lot of people and will plod along slowly for the time being!

Ah okay now I get why you have a problem with the whole 'controlling the narrative' thing. When you have different 'lenses' in the society that don't get along, both will compete for dominance! The key here is to integrate both of them. That's where the resolution to this whole thing lies. It's the best we can do, given that all lenses are limited in their own ways. Nice! I'm happy to see that you're not just brainwashed by one perspective/the media. I do the same with the collective egos in the world! I learn a lot by seeing that they're a part of me and integrating them. Now about taking action : You HAVE to take a stand in order to take action. I'm not saying that the stand you take has to be absolutely true, in fact it's relative to the situation at hand. It also doesn't mean that other perspectives aren't valid, they are. However, you need to be 100% on board with a certain course of action, which requires some degree of black-and-white thinking. Also ,this is the case on a social level cuz most people are dogmatic and will passionately support your stand/action in an absolutist way! The stand you take may or may not be what you authentically believe, but the sole purpose of doing it is to take the action you want to take. What do you think about this?

I know that men are privileged. Does that mean that any guy who wants to critically look at feminism is wrong? I never said the whole movement is full of shit, I'm just wanting to critically look at it. There's fundamental problems with the whole notion of equality/privilege which I'm pointing to. There's also fundamental problems with the whole patriarchy-bashing thing. Do you see that? I never said I want to maintain the status quo! Quite the opposite, in fact, I'm discussing actual potential change here. You tell me, how are we supposed to create actual lasting change without critically looking at the positions of people for and against it?

That's a feminist projection. They're the ones making false equivalencies! But I guess mods gotta be politically correct... Are you being PC cuz you're a mod? Again, what you're saying is true, just not relevant to this conversation.

@Serotoninluv ^^ If we threaten each other's niches, that's a huge issue for both sides. We understand that adults and children have different niches, don't we? Mixing these niches together would mean making child-labour legal and giving children the right to have sex! Imagine what'll happen if a group of 5 year olds starts protesting for the right to have sex with adults! You're right on every count! This conversation was never about 'should'-statements though. When I use the word 'niche', it's not a one-size-fits-all for all men and all women. All I'm saying is that they're different and why.

Revenge-seeking has casualties which just happened to be in the firing line of the revenge-seeker. It causes needless damage which has to be protected against. Take a look at the Iraq war for example. When a particular section of society gets radicalized, it's an issue for the whole society! That's like conservatives saying that 'Patriarchial oppression doesn't exist and feminists are spending too much time worrying about nothing! Why are you afraid of the patriarchy?' Maybe you don't notice the revenge-seeking elements of feminism. It's pretty well-known! To my eyes, 'seeking revenge for oppression' is a mirror image of what incels are doing. It's not at all respectable and it gives the movement a bad rap.

Oh yeah I think this is important to mention : perspective is different from opinion. Perspective would mean the totality of where this person is coming from, the understanding of how they deluded themselves, etc. while opinion is just what they think. We can integrate perspectives of people we totally disagree with! That way, we can have different opinions AND be on the same page. It's very useful to accommodate for what they actually need (not what they say they need, which could be bullshit) to minimize the level of resistance to evolution.

So I do agree with Leo when he says that the Left-Wing perspective in general is more conscious than the Right-Wing perspective. However, if we're really gonna move past this hump as a society, people who identify with the Left really need to deeply understand the perspective of the Right. It's on the side that's more conscious to bridge this gap. The more conscious people on the Left really need to integrate their inner Right-winger so to speak. That way, Leftists won't be so triggered by the status-quo/Conservatives and we'll be able to get on the same playing field when it comes to having political discussions! What are your experiences with this, i.e. integrating Conservative perspectives?

First of all, the patriarchy is literally in our DNA! We've been bred and suckled on it and we literally don't know any other way of survival. The patriarchy includes all hierarchical and bureaucratic formal systems/institutions/structures which were designed by men, for men to work in and for the survival of everyone. It's a very masculine system by design! It was never meant for women to work in. I don't know how practical it is to come up with an entirely new way of survival from scratch. You'd also have to throw all of Spiral Dynamics out the window if we're starting from scratch, because this is the way the stages evolved. Secondly, equality was never on the table to begin with. Men and women are fundamentally different with different niches in the system. 'Equality' is a Stage Orange/Green idealization which nobody ever really wanted! Even equality of opportunity is not something we really want. Men want the best possible opportunities for their niche while women want the same for their niche. There's a difference between equality and fairness. We care a lot more about fairness than equality. Our niches happen to overlap a lot in today's day and age, doesn't mean we're 'equal'. A part of women's unique niche in the system is the ability to get pregnant and have babies. The survival of the whole species literally depends on this ability of women! The original religious prophets waaayy back when saw this and designed the system accordingly. Now of course there's outdated elements to it, but they were visionaries nonetheless who had their basics down! We really need to get in touch with our masculinity/femininity (both men and women have masculinity and femininity) to clear up these confusions! I have a feeling that the way it'll actually play out is that the more conscious our society gets, the more this current system will get reformed to accommodate for the authentic niches of everyone.

An important thing to note is that if this system crumbles and goes down because of its dysfunctions, the new system that'll be constructed, will be a new patriarchy! Only a more conscious one, in which women get to fully express their femininity. It's a good idea to have a vision for a new system and head in its direction if everyone has so many problems with this one. It's important to note that the patriarchy has been pretty successful in physically surviving the human species for thousands upon thousands of years. All the dysfunctions in it are only because of lack of consciousness. Once those get resolved, I can see it working!

Thank you for seeing this! Access to feminine power is right behind seeing this pattern collectively. We really need women to access their femininity and accept it. (same for men with masculinity!) @Leo Gura It's very important that we don't get carried away in the riptide of narratives and see what's really going on. Of course feminism has been helpful in battling oppression of women, but we gotta save our asses when they come for revenge! Another important thing we need to see about feminism today is that they're all about 'Women in the workforce, glass ceiling, wage gap' etc. but they don't really care about the issues of women on the ground-level. It's all about women in power! I personally haven't seen a feminist campaign for paid maternity-leave/better healthcare for moms. The reason is, feminists promote what they're paid to promote. Feminists get corporate sponsorship to encourage more women to enter the work-force, STEM fields, law, etc! Corporations sponsor this to drive down the cost of labour, because now there's men and women working, whereas before it was mostly men. Now I'm not against allowing women to work, but this is a big point to note. In short, it's a big political game which doesn't have a lot to do with day-to-day lives. Corporate lobbying and the media, of course, is a huge part of this brainwashing. It's not all bad, but it's not as Stage-Green noble-intentioned as one might expect.

@Eph75 Everything I told you is based on direct experience! It's an everyday thing for me where I wait for the universe to reflect to me the ways in which I'm resisting what I want, then I do the inner work to resolve those conflicts. It's compounded my levels of inner peace to unimaginable levels. Also, it's helped me gain significant clarity on my vision for the future. Part of the reason I found spirituality was being lost in my life. Also, it's helped me understand relationships in incredible depths, i.e. I'm able to see how my internal aspects reflect externally as people and it helps raise the consciousness of my relationships! Manifestation literally is magical, as Leo says! No mechanism to it, it's just spontaneous! Another way of interpreting LoA is that the whole universe is a creation of your Infinite Mind, i.e. you are the God creating your reality.

Here's how it works : We're all one on an emotional level. You can verify this with spiritual practices, emotional consciousness, etc. Desire basically is forward movement, i.e. when you want something you naturally gravitate towards it. The reason for this is complicated. In short, you, as an unconscious ego, suffer inherently and you desire the opposite experience of your suffering, so you move towards it. The universe, which is a mirror reflection of you, reflects to you what you want/the truth of who you are in the most optimal way possible. Now as humans, we live in the 3D paradigm because our senses show us a 3D reality. That's why, we're oblivious to all of this happening, especially if we're unconscious. This gets in the way of direct manifestation of what we want, also there's all sorts of internal resistance, confusion and unsurity of what we want. Even that stuff manifests externally, so in practice, we manifest a weird mix of what we believe, what we want, who we are, etc. including all the limiting beliefs, etc. It basically is a mirror of who you are. That's why inner work is so powerful! The point of all of this is to lead the ego to the Truth of what it is, that's why the mirror!

Our minds have become more and more scientific over time, i.e. we don't have miracles/magic happening in today's day and age. That's why, if you just imagine something, if it's not according to the laws of the physical/3D world, it won't manifest! Those parts of you which are scientific/3D in level of consciousness will resist it. This is why action matters.

@Eph75 Are you saying all of this after you have the relationships/social life you want? Cuz that's not the case for a lot of people who enter spirituality, i.e. a lot of people use meditation as a crutch/escape hatch from life. This doesn't make complete sense from a Law of Attraction perspective, i.e. on a vibrational level, what we genuinely want manifests immediately. When it's not a genuine desire, though (and we can delude ourselves that we want something when we really don't) then what'll get reflected is the opposite of what we're asking for. What you're probably saying is that when we question our desires, we'll be able to separate the authentic ones from the fake ones, and that seeing that the fake ones were fake will be a relief for us. Although when it really is a genuine desire, you'll not be able to let it go. You'll have to go get what you want and fulfill your desire before you even realize that it didn't end your suffering! Once you have that realization, and you're just suffering with no answer/no particular desire, then it's time for self-enquiry/enlightenment work/surrendering to your death. The cycle works in this specific order. I've verified it multiple times through personal experience. If you mess up the order, it could cause problems like using meditation to escape the reality of what you want, and your limiting beliefs around your ability to get what you want. Sounds like an infinitely peaceful experience!

Technically you don't even need to be physically alive, i.e. you don't need food! It's all in your mind, physically dying is no problem cuz death is the best thing that could happen to you anyways! It's okay to physically die, heck everyone dies!! Death is an illusion so the whole survival thing is irrational anyways. 'Needs' are an illusion from absolute perspective, so it really is all in your mind! I personally have tapped into experiences where I saw that eating food was a way of avoiding an emotional state of starvation/deprivation and that if I sat with it long enough, either I'd be dead or I'd not need food anymore. However from a human perspective, physical AND emotional needs are a reality. Feel free to test out being alone the rest of your life for yourself! Feel free to starve yourself for physical touch for a decade. I challenge you to overcome the suffering that causes you only by meditating/doing self-enquiry!

That's a possibility. For me (and for a lot of other ex-workaholics like me) we were led towards people and relationships by our insights! Part of the reason I keep harping on this is that it isn't common knowledge that we have emotional needs. Knowing this could mean the difference between having a lonely, neurotic, mutually exploitative relationship and having a conscious, authentic relationship!

You just took the words out of my soul! People here think that meditating a lot is somehow going to fix their relationship problems. What they're missing is that they have emotional needs which meditation is simply not gonna meet! Now enlightenment can be useful, i.e. it's useful to resolve conflicts with someone else when you see them as a part of yourself. However, it can also be used as a coping mechanism for unmet emotional needs. Human beings have emotional needs and our cultures don't get this yet. We'd be living a lot more communally and inter-dependently if we got this as a species! Stage Orange really glorifies independence and fundamentally is scared of relationships, so it doesn't want to admit that we're emotionally dependent on each other as human beings.

You are a human being who has emotional needs. Neediness is not a weakness, in fact having emotional needs is a reality of being human. Our Stage Orange societies don't want to admit this, so if you want a real relationship, you're gonna have to go against the grain. If you factor these things in your inner work, things may look a lot scarier than they look now. HTH!

Hey everyone! So I was tapping into the consciousness of various groups of the manosphere like MGTOW, PUA, etc. (Nothing excites me more than studying collective ego dynamics :D) and I have an interesting find. I saw a common thread between Incels and PUAs, which is that both those groups haze the shit out of their members! A sense of belonging is created out of shaming each other and pulling each other's self-esteem down. This sense of belonging is the glue that keeps the groups together. Incels use well-known shaming tactics like berating each other's looks, berating women, etc. PUAs, however, use hazing tactics like approaching tons of women to desensitize themselves to the pain of rejection and approach-anxiety! I haven't seen PUAs look deeply into the reasons for these emotional responses, instead they're just bulldozed. Also, there's a fair bit of criticism of each other's looks, personality, shyness/stand-offishness, questioning the PUA paradigm, etc. There's this collective narrative of 'We're not good with women and I'm gonna prove this to you'. Incels take this rationale to 'I'm not good with women and there's nothing to be done about it', while PUAs take this to 'I'm not good with women, but I can improve myself and get good despite that'. While that may seem empowering, what I found is that the belief still comes from 'I'm not good with women' so their attempts at getting good are neurotic. PUAs justify this by saying 'If I don't take action NOW, NOW, NOW, then my only option is to take the black pill cuz taking action is all I got!' If you're familiar with Parts Work, Incel and PUA are 2 protector aspects for the same vulnerable aspect of self. The vulnerable self is one which believes that it's a dog-eat-dog world, the Universe is against me and I have to beat the universe to get what I want. What they fundamentally miss is that the universe is actually doing its best to give them what they want! #LawOfAttraction What are your thoughts on this? I know I'm all over the place writing this.