Dylan Page

One of my greatest interests is in understanding why good and bad things happen to people. There is obviously a spectrum of good and bad in people’s lives, and sometimes people find themselves at the absolute pinnacle of either side. Some win the lottery from one ticket, and others get brain cancer at 16. Some have mostly pleasant lives with a few rough patches, and others have mostly unpleasant lives, with a few good patches. What is the significance of these differences in individuals? It seems to be that fairness is not in nature’s best interest when it comes to the treatment of conscious individuals that reside within it. Is there a proposed reason for this? Perhaps some more intelligent function that I have overlooked? I would like to one day figure out the cause of these differences, and if they are meaningful or not. Please leave a reply if you have any sort of idea that could further this conversation.

How would you argue for or against Sean Carroll here? Is there something he is missing? Serious, thoughtful replies only please.

@Keyhole The argument is convincing to a degree, and you’re certainly right about the fact that we don’t want the worst to be true. What I’m saying is, even though a 16 year old may get brain cancer, that event taking place might not be totally out of line with what is best for that 16 year old, even if it seems totally opposite to that. Given that identities are not real, the death of that 16 year old could be a massive awakening to the true self that was there all along. We can’t be caught up on what we can see around us. There could easily be so much more than meets the eye.

@Keyhole How can you be sure of this? Why do you say that he chooses people at random and that he loves some more than others? I’m open to the possibility, but I’m not entirely sure that that claim is entirely logically consistent. For example, how do we know what our bests interests are when all of us are riddled with ignorance and false confidence? How can you reasonably assume that whoever gets chosen for the good or the bad is random/meaningless? Wouldn’t you have to be god itself to be aware of something like that? I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m saying I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that it is. It’s important to be careful not to assume the worst. We humans have a tendency to do that.

@Leo Gura I just made a comment to @Preetom about the “prove you are the body” comment you just made and tagged you in it. Is this what you are talking about? There is no subject?

@Osaid That story is brilliant, love it.

@egoeimai Indeed, I tend to judge misfortune as a sort of inherently bad, tragic thing, but honestly, it’s a silly judgement. I really have no idea what the significance of any of these things are. Just because something is painful doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad or meaningless. There could definitely be some overlooked purpose behind it. But, unfortunately, we don’t really know.

@Preetom @Leo Gura When you say that knowledge, death, and all forms of knowing are subjective, do you mean that they are all experienced or had from a point of view? I can look at someone in a palliative care unit pass away and say that they died. This is a seeming fact in my mind, just as I assume it is a fact in their mind as well. I suppose I can’t actually know if there is anyone actually dying there, but if that is true, I can’t assume there is anyone witnessing someone dying there as well. Which is to say that there is no subject at all. However, from a sort of experiential perspective, this makes no sense. I am here, you know what I mean? So to say that everything is subjective assumes there is a subject to begin with, which I’m not sure is even true. What do you think?

@Preetom @EternalForest He definitely talks as if atoms are the most basic fundamental particles. He seems to think that if we understand atoms, then we in theory understand all macro phenomenon. I can see the logic behind the idea that if you understand how the basic blocks of something work, you understand how all possible combinations of those blocks would work, but the problem is assuming that there is a basic block in the first place, and that there are blocks at all that have rules. I suppose this is the fundamental assumption behind all of his arguments that is really taken on faith. What do you think?

@Leo Gura What aspect of death are you referring to when you say that death has not been scientifically proven? The non-existence part, the entire notion that there is a thing that is dying, both, or something else? My general view on death is that judging it as good or bad is taking it too far. We don’t know what it means or if it happens for a reason or whatever, and many assume the worst about it. Would you agree or disagree with this view?

My whole future is planned around helping the world become a better place. I not only care about people and animals, but honestly anything living. I want the pain in the world to cease to exist. I wish I could stop it all, and I don’t even know why. Is it good to help others? Or is this just some irrelevant feeling? Why do I care about others? Why am I not totally selfish and manipulative? I could easily learn how to deceive people for my own gain. Yet, I don’t want to. How does this trait “evolve”? Does it? So many questions. I could continue asking but I’ll leave it at that.

I agree, I’m not going to try to preach a gospel. I just want to save people from poverty, suicide, murder, etc. The world is cruel and I want it to not be. @Verdesbird Here are a few examples of exactly what I'm talking about. *Graphic content edited by moderator.

This is a story about a girl named Anna. Anna was a 17 year old who’s goal in life was to help make the world a better place. She had so many plans to do her part, eager for the day they come to fruition. One was to start a non-profit company to alleviate the pains of homelessness, another was to start a research center to create better environments for animals affected by pollution and there was even a project for a sanctuary for mosquitos, so that they could live and thrive without being a danger to humans. Her empathy spread far and wide, with a universal compassion and acknowledgement that all creatures are innocently making their way through life. However, there was an issue. She was struggling to get her message out there and grew up in a poor family. She had no access to substantial money and was still stuck in high school. She worked super hard to get enough money to start working on the foundations of her first company and after 6 months of knee-deep exhausting labor she was ready to start seriously making an impact. On the night of the grand opening of her first homelessness shelter, in her shaking excited anxiety, she trips, falls, hits her head on the pavement, and dies. Her business with no leader other than herself quickly collapses and nothing comes to fruition. The kind hearted selfless person with nothing but dreams to unify and heal the world dies coldly and suddenly, with no warning and before she can actualize any of her goals. What does this mean to you guys? Were those goals of her’s “important” in any way? Why would this ever happen to someone like that? I’m not trying to be dramatic, but in trying to understand the nature of the universe, you simply can’t avoid its brutal capacity to end that which seems nothing but good.

Curious as to what is going to happen with the YouTube channel, any updates?

This quarantine is causing me to really want to go back to “normal” life. The songs I’ve been listening to are sort of different, my environment is the same but my lifestyle is completely flipped upside down (not that I had much of a concrete lifestyle to begin with), and things just feel foreign. Like I’m not supposed to be here or something. The feeling is akin to being lost and wanting to go home. Anyone feel this way? Any advice?

Is it possible to selflessly desire? Could someone provide some examples? Leo said in his video recently that he selflessly desires to share the fruits of his work and I want to know what he means by that.

Ok so what if every person and entity in the universe achieves full self understanding? The universe is in a completely conscious state. Then what? Is there a finite number of things to learn about consciousness and self? There are obviously an infinite number of realities and such, but within a finite reality, are there still an infinite number of things to learn about what “you” and everyone else around you fundamentally is? What would one do if there was no one to help and nothing to learn?

I have no idea @Johnny5

So I have had this breathing problem for a month where it feels like someone is forcing their palm on my chest and won’t let up. This lasts pretty much the entire day except for when I wake up in the morning, but then it slowly comes on and is in full force after about 15 minutes after waking. I went to the doctors and they took lung tests, heart tests, blood pressure tests, the whole shabang. There was nothing wrong at all, in fact they all were exceptionally functional and normal. Yet I still have this terrible chest pain and shortness of breath. One of the doctors explained to me that it’s likely a deep rooted anxiety or stress that is now manifesting out of my subconscious mind. What do you guys think? If this is the case, what should I do about it?

Maybe this is exclusive to me, but whenever I think about what it is that I am doing in life, from a rather broad perspective, I always find that if that which I am doing is overly selfish, my life is pointless and a waste. If I am trying to make too much money, focusing too much on my health, etc. I guess I feel this way because selfishness ultimately never wins. At the end of the day, no matter how much money I make, how healthy I am, how whatever else, I’m always going to lose. I’ve been really contemplating what I should do about this. I think survival, health, money, entertainment, and the likes are necessary, but when they are all that one does in life, there is something fundamentally important missing. I find higher value in life by helping others, growing myself and my understanding of the world, and trying to make the world a better place. Not for my own benefit (except for the growth point), but for the knowledge that I’m really making a difference in the lives of others. I’m not sure if this higher motivation is “important” in any sense, of course factually is it not, but I mean in a more universal, spiritual way. One of my biggest dreams is that humanity will be able to fully accept all parts of itself, and eventually will work towards improving the lives of all other beings as well. In this sense I dream of a unity of all things, a co-existence that while finite, can be appreciated by all. I always wonder if this motivation is just a selfish pipe dream, or there is actual significance to it. Maybe it’s a motivation not from me, Dylan, but from the true Self, the one that is willing this body to type this, not the body itself.

I am absolutely terrified at the idea of dying before discovering the truth, understanding myself, understanding the world and helping to fix the world. Every day I think about it. I’m on this journey that is so fucking important to me and I realize that tomorrow I could get hit by a bus and none of it would even matter. I’m not sure what to make of this. Does anyone have any suggestions?

@Jonac I’m not gonna rely on it, I just don’t know.

I don’t know to be honest. I don’t want this life to wash away from me and have it not make sense. I want to know what’s going on. If everything will be ok, why I’m here. I feel like if I don’t discover these things then I’ll just be an ignorant robot. If I don’t discover these things then I won’t want to do anything in life but pursue meaningless pleasure and then die and not have any sort of grip on the world or purpose. Maybe it sounds like I’m being ridiculous or childish, caring about my “petty” life but seeing it that way seems so fuckin depressing. Like there is no even personal significance to my life. I don’t need to be special, but I just really want to connect with others and help everything be ok. It’s simply how I feel, I don’t want to be dead inside. @Preetom

@Drewnows I’m ok with dying via psychedelics, I would like to come back to me though afterwards.

No I’m saying that the people of our entire nation each have an individual kibble of dog food for a continent sized dog and whether or not I throw my kibble into the pile won’t make a difference on whether the dog gets full or not. If everyone uses this logic, the dog does not get fed. This logic is correct, so in order to circumnavigate the interests of the individual, everyone should be forced to throw their kibble into the pile, that way the dog gets fed. If this isn’t in place, anyone can just say, “ah well, everyone else is feeding the dog so I don’t need to”. @Leo Gura Maybe I’m just not seeing something so I’ll give this some more thought but, I actually just cannot see how this is wrong.