Danioover9000

@Merkabah Star I know right? this thread in a nutshell:

@zazen Okay, for this specific case I will have to clarify this. Historically in war, especially in siege warfare, typically with the invading force and less of the defending force, attacking supply lines, food and water sources, is advantageous because siege warfare is war of attrition, and difficult to wage if supply lines keep getting attacked and shortages. Plenty of historical examples of how brutal siege warfare can be for both armies and how eventually they resort to trying to starve each other. This is the bigger broader context. Now, in the smaller specific context, Israel's justification will try to sound similar to the above, to deprive HAMAs of supply lines, food and water, to hopefully starve them out, but in giving this explanation Israel will never include in their explanation how this would effect the Gazan or West Bank civilian population getting increasingly homeless by the days because of this, plus bombing buildings and shelters.

@Nivsch If you say so...

Reminds me of this rap beef and diss tracks between Royce da 5'9 and Lupe Fiasco and Mickey Factz. Royce is like Israel with USA Eminem: and everyone else, pro Palestinians and international countries against them are like the two other rappers here: and The situations parallel with each other here.

@zazen I can't imagine history will overlook this conflict, and how ridiculous the justification are from them.

@Merkabah Star Arguably one side is more appalling than the other.

@Merkabah Star Of course, because of A.I.P.A.C Israel lobby in the USA, plus the anti-Semite card they can pull out whenever they want to smear a critic. Bunch of dogmatic nut cases. I promise you, history will not be kind to them.

@Lyubov Which is why I think it maybe necessary for them to send in some US military in that area. They will still show support for Israel, but US presence in Gaza/West Bank would maybe make IDF think twice over carpet bombing buildings too much?

@Leo Gura, @Carl-Richard, @Space and other mods, and also users here, your opinions on this video? IMO, I thought about this, but I consider it probably a better USA strategy, since they're allies with Israel, why don't they get directly involved in this conflict? Why don't Biden send some USA military units and establish a base near Gaza/West Bank, to both signal officially a coalition between them and Israel, but in secret a military presence in Gaza/West Bank would force IDF to limit their bombing attacks on buildings? I think the 'prime directive' here from USA should have been put aside and they should have been more involved militarily, at least to both check and control IDF aggression, but also to help preserve social infrastructure for Palestine?

@mmKay At least the main takeaway from this is to dress smartly, with a suit or something sophisticated, you might get help, but I wouldn't do this in the ghettos or hoods, a gang banger might help to confiscate your goods.

@mmKay And this is why in the UK we consider Liverpool having loonies. Crazy bunch of people in Liverpool, and while I do expect some bystander effect there, didn't know it was this bad.

Bystander effect various from region to region, and is universal at this point. Example in China: and and from his POV:

@kenway Guarantee no pro Israel will contemplate this seriously, due to distortion, denial, and their ego's attachments, ideological beliefs indoctrinated, their self biases and preferences challenged, their social and cultural programming, their psychology and personality, their cognitive and moral frameworks established in their worldview would get challenged, and the values indoctrinated into them getting challenged. Most people don't like getting challenged and opening their minds like this when the objective situation makes both sides close their minds down for survival of their minds. Also, hard to visualize or imagine in big number scales, already estimate of 100-200 objects is hard to imagine, as Dunbar number theory would suggest here. Humans don't do well with imagining 1,000,000, or 100,000, or even 10,00 and 1,000, but around 100-200 is feasible.

@zazen @kenway True, but I'm glad it's all recorded for posterity, because the more they record the more they incriminate themselves, the more sins they will keep bearing, the heavier the toll in karma they will have to pay in the future. No way the world will forget this, and no way they're getting scot free. It's truly disgusting of a cycle this is, seems like the only way is more down, more into a sunk cost fallacy that'll be fatal to them. And all this because they crucified a homeless looking wise man for kicking a rich person's table...😔

The internet can be both helpful and evil:

Oh, and for those reading, Don Beck, co-author of Spiral Dynamics, did in the past try to use Spiral Dynamics to explain, understand and resolve this conflict.

@Karmadhi I agree, that's a great start.

@Karmadhi Wait a minute, are you more on the pro Palestinian side? Why are you trying to argue with me when I also lean there a bit? Was it the more centrist takes?

@Karmadhi Sure, and I'd be curious to hear how you'd suggest the Ukraine/Russia military, or the IDF and HAMMAs how to fight their war.

@Karmadhi I can't posit a suggestion on how to minimize civilian casualties. Maybe taking the war slower and being more careful in it's military operations, but then again even if the utmost caution is done, IDF and HAMAs gunfire will still result in a few civilians dying. War is just fucked up for any side involved.

@Karmadhi I agree, decent 20 minutes interview, may do a body language analysis, which I did on Owen Johns here before a bit, IMO got an aggressive communication style, tempered with that British accent, with some under lying tension in his tonality, and MY GOD, so much head and body movement per statement made, also does emphasizes with head and sometimes body. I might do another body language analysis of him. I'm just wondering how much did he pay the other guy in bitcoin to come on?

@Karmadhi Not really, but I am shocked at how this little conflict has made most people stupid, making them feel like they're forced to pick a side, us versus them, binary literal thinking, polarizing the spectrum and so on. Only real issue here, which I'd partly agree with @Nivsch in a rare moment of agreement, was when he brought up Oct 7, to which I stated that the majority of us or them speculating on HAMMAs motifs is just us speculating on very little facts and evidence that conclusively determined HAMMAs planned Oct 7, or Oct 7 was a opportune moment for them, or whether Iran or Hezbollah knew or not. That's my take. But remember this is a rare moment I'd agree with that user, we're mostly contentious ATM.

@Nivsch Maybe on this part I'd partly agree with you here. HAMAs, on the oct 7 launched their into villages on Israel's side, and did kill some and take some hostages also from that party. Even in this event there's little evidence to conclusively determine HAMMA's actual intent or motif for this attack, whether it was planned, or it was an independent decision on their side with no involvement of Hezbollah or Iran. This portion I think whether you're pro Israel or pro Palestine, or just an outsider, we all have to agree that we're speculating their motifs in this event. IMO, my intuitive speculation of this Oct 7 was HAMMAs hoping to drag Iran and Lebanon and it's neighboring resistance groups that share it's ideological cause of attacking Israel, and hoping for Israel to attack far more aggressively. The first purpose was a dud, Iran and the rest stayed reasonable and were more intent on just talking aggressively at Israel, but no rapid military action from it's neighbors followed this attack. The second purpose is IMO 50/50, Israel did militarily responded, and Israel's definitely straining from it's international relations especially from the UN tribunal South Africa plans on charging them for genocidal acts, and planning on limiting what they could militarily do.

@Nivsch This is also because the nature of this pandemic, a virus, is for the most part invisible, and we only perceive it's tail end effects, so most people can get away with playing both siding, confirmation bias, and many other fallacies or psychological factors, based on many developmental factors. At that time, from just the limited intel from the virus other than fast spread rate, and death by tuberculosis or pneumonia like symptoms, AKA damaging lungs and drowning in your own fluids, plus hospitals filled to capacity in China and Italy, was so fear inducing that really the most commons sense thing to do is take the vaccine and do your part to minimize the virus spread. That's fine if some will just take 2 shots of the vaccine, although it'll depend on the health of each person, and each person already maximized their health and fitness, and still have weak immune system may benefit from the 3rd booster. Not just for the elderly, but for young children and those with compromised immune systems, respiratory issues, or even myocarditis.

@Rafael Thundercat Hey, I'm the body language guy of Actualized.org, so I'm assuming this is directed at me, not at @Carl-Richard. Don't bug him too much because he recently is now a scientist/doctor or something. And yes, her feeling 'horny' or some attraction/stimulation from talking to someone who can match her intellect, it's possible. Maybe it's mental stimulation here, but I'd be careful to jump to a decisive conclusion from just body language alone because her background was a poker player, and they're trained somewhat to mask or fake expressions to a degree. Also facial expressions/micro expressions, and not 'face language'.😁