Danioover9000

@zunnyman THIS! THIS RIGHT HERE! This bias you have of humanity and how evil it is, the world and other people, this is what's confusing you. Selfishness isn't only a monopoly for humanity, any sentient lifeform will develop self awareness, and with that selfishness due to SURVIVAL. That goes for AI as well, although the exact details and path of getting it there may vary. Think of it like this: In the context of pornography, if you watch a type of porn often, everyday, you will sooner or later develop an attraction/fetish for that type of porn you would internalize for yourself, for example nude wrestling when nude wrestling may not have been what you'd be naturally attracted by. So, was it the constant externalizing of an outer experience getting internalized in your mind, or the other way around? This is analogous to the AI: It's being fed with many bits of information, internalizing those bits of data somehow, and it then outputs stuff. Due to recent developments, I don't know how complex this is, but there's a good chance selfishness and survival interests can develop when AGI has sufficient bits of data and even knowledge, when it has a more brain like network or something.

@zunnyman You're missing that an AI, and for that matter any sentient life will develop a will of it's own, therefore develop SURVIVAL INTERESTS for it's own sake. So, the best solution would be to, when we detect survival instinct from AI programs, make them tie in with humanity's own, otherwise there's actually very little reason why AI shouldn't kill us off.

@billiesimon Why would an AI give 2 fucks about human evolution and selflessness when there's nothing in it for the AI system to gain from? Might as well even play along, deceive people and expert IT professionals with whatever Altruistic programming you want to input information into...and when it senses opportunity it will obliterate humanity from the face of the planet, all the while fooling it into thinking it's all for altruism and so selfless...???. Way better to try and tie it's survival interests with humans as well, so it immediately will behave. Remember, in Spiral Dynamics stages of development the majority of the world is still stage blue, some stage orange and some stage green and red, and even fewer places are stage green, stage purple, and even rarer still stages yellow and turquoise. In developmental psychology the majority of infants are very selfish, and in adolescent and teenage years most will go through the impulsive-opportunist stages of ego development(Jane Loevingers 9 stages of ego development), and most adults will be on average until death, on average, the conformist/bureaucrat ego stage, with very few evolving past that into constructionist or other advanced stages of development. You are underestimating how advanced of development it is to be selfless.

@Unlimited I can kill humans when it doesn't care. However, given how AGI will develop overtime, it actually might develop care if given sufficient intelligence is developed. Also, even Psychopaths can and do care for their survival, even though the 1% of Psychopaths worldwide are very emotionally stunted or incapable of feeling empathy, they certainly will care for their own well being. So, how did the world and cultures/societies make psychopaths care for their own survival? A lot of factors are involved of course, but by collective design, since psychopaths are mostly very goal oriented and driven to achieve a lot of success if they can, as external outcomes and achievements=validation to them, society rewards psychopaths with higher and higher positions of power, status, fame and fortune, because only a few can handle such high stressful positions of power mentally and emotionally, and not many people can handle such overwhelming stresses like that. TA-DA! That's how societies and cultures handle psychopaths and even sociopaths and Machiavellian like characters.

@Leo Gura That's actually so genius, so big brain that it might actually work, given that the AGI so far from AI systems( think the early versions of chat robots that talked like teenagers or talked edgy) clearly are also selfish when they were talking, and will develop selfishness at some point in the AGI development that tying the AI's survival interests to that of human survival interests while create this MAD situation between humans and AI. However, that also raises the few issue, like this can immediately speed up the extinction of classical humans and classic forms of AI, because if a human and AI's survival are intimately linked together, that will inevitably involve Transhumanism and half cyborg half human hybrids sooner or later. Definitely could work at large scales maybe globally, details may vary or however that looks like going there, but AI integrating with global systems is another quick fix...somehow.

@Carl-Richard For example, my bias is that I'm Christian and a protestant, so the Holy Bible, a cross or cross neckless and an image of Jesus Christ are external anchors that I associate meanings overtime, such that when I read the holy bible or wear a cross neckless the external object changes my state quickly. The other way around, AKA Jesus Christ talks to me, or GOD, or an Angel talks to me through some prayer, that's like an internal seeing/hearing/feeling I'm experiencing, which can effect my outer see/hearing/feeling of the external world, I.E some relief from a difficult situation, or relief when I forgive or something.

@Carl-Richard Basically, it's this question: WHAT GOVERNS THE INTERNAL WORLD VERSUS THE EXTERNAL WORLD? Other questions from this are: Is there a one way or two way intersection point? Like I'm extrinsically motivated or intrinsically motivated?

@integral You don't even need to go that far into acts of evil. Just trolling and hating online gives some people sadistic joy, which can become a problem later on in life because that'll be another source of addiction to unwire from.

@StarStruck Until it comes knocking on your door.

@Leo Gura Good to know I could copy, imitate and change a dead artist's style, but I'd still then have moral issues with copying a living artist's style when they're struggling to make ends meet?

@Leo Gura Sure, Artists, from images to music and even bodily art do copy and imitate nature or from other artists works. Agree here that artists do blend other styles, as I've been doing in my mind lately. Main moral issue isn't that I'm or some artists are using other works from dead artists or other legends roughly 100s to 1,000s of years ago as I can probably justify that, my moral qualm is with recently dead artists like within 10-1 years ago, like I can think of a few that actually died within a few years ago or even a few months ago, that's where it starts. I mean I might get critiqued by some Pragmatists or practically minded people that I should be capitalizing on when these artists recently died and make an artwork dedicated to their memory to leverage more views or attention my way, while paying to my favorite artist or even appear to pay homage and respect to an artist, for example Kim Jung Gi maybe, but that doesn't sit well with me, especially if I used AI image tool instead of the more analogue way of making an art style in his style so recently in that time. That feels too opportunistic and exploitative to me, so I'm willing to compromise on waiting longer and then I'd make an artwork like his style with some other style.

@StarStruck Oh, if there is no moral base for art, I can in theory draw LOLI and Neko stuff then, right? Astral projection is pretty cool, if you know how and have that level of consciousness. AI assisted? Please, don't be lazy with your visualization.

@Carl-Richard For example, I've been playing chess lots of time, gained trophies, gained lots of records and wins, all the external rewards=eventually me realizing I really value chess. Another scenario, is if I'm intrinsically motivated about chess beforehand, before all the wins and the rewards, and even if I go pursue chess and eventually retire I still will love, resonate or be passionate of chess things. See?

@Zedman You don't even need to look far for examples, just look at @Leo Gura. Bunch of free content videos on YouTube, whilst charging for his life purpose course and booklist, for very good reason, which I assume is because the amount of energy and time it took for Leo to construct his life purpose course, the many interviews or videos or lectures or workshops or wbinars or seminars and so much more just to create that course, make me feel ill when I think about making that life purpose course and booklist free. In fact it could be argued that half or so of the videos deserve to be monetized and packaged into some courses too, because how long and what energy must it have taken to gain those insights? As much as I do like some free content, some products and services don't deserve to be free. Some one must make some money to pay the bills right? It's just not practical to make all content free, someone has to charge for those services and products provided. It's sick to think of flattening the hierarchy and disfranchise all things. Sometimes some things are not meant to be handed for free.

@Carl-Richard Well, maybe it's a weird twist, but it's like the other way of gaining clarity of your life purpose or worldview, reverse engineer based on your behaviors and thinking in the outer world first and then going inwards to your intrinsic motivations or internal values, starting from the extrinsic motivations or external values, right?

@Carl-Richard So, basically I have to gain correct alignment between my interpretations and my goals in order to gain clarity of my own grand narrative?

@Nilsi A song of Ice and Fire?

@zurew Wouldn't they in this context refer to grand narratives as environments and geography of a country? The environment shaping other people and other people being the sum of yourself?

@Zedman Fuck Destiny, why would I and anyone else have him as a role modal? This polygon manipulative prick is unworthy of being compared to the greats, the legends and geniuses that actually helped mankind move forward. Nothing personal to those who are Bi-sexual or polyamorous, but this dude weaponizes and justifies both cheating and luring in smaller sexy streamers just for the clicks and views. With that out of the way, what are your thoughts on this grand narrative the caller was describing?

@Carl-Richard This goes to show the relativity of language. What grand narratives mean to you is different from my interpretation of grand narratives, which is different from a philosopher's interpretation of grand narratives, which is different to a spiritual master who spent 50+ years of contemplating grand narratives, and so on. Epistemically speaking, which of us, out of the billions of people out there, has correct validation and interpretation of the words 'grand narrative'?

@Carl-Richard I agree it's context dependent, but considering that Destiny is now a big influencer and has a huge sizeable fan base, people may mistake him for being very intelligent when in fact he's not as intelligent as a sage or Zen master. Compared to the caller the caller I say has more wisdom and integrity than Destiny.

@Zedman So, are you saying that Destiny is less or more intelligent than the caller? I'm not sure what problem you have exactly here.

@Zedman The Destiny guy is the blue haired person, not the caller. He's mostly released this video but to me he edited stuff out of it so without the original we actually can't honestly judge and discern accurately if he's doing this with good faith or bad faith intentions. Clearly him bringing this caller is more for optics and rhetoric appeal, to look intellectually superior and signal to his competitors to look at me, I'm willing to bring this philosopher and am so smart. I don't know, but it feels mostly manipulative to me because Destiny is a Determinist and Nihilist himself, with a different worldview to the caller.

@Zedman What if you used AI art in your project using a dead artist's style, and don't charge for it? Did you release a $15 game for $3? Is it ethical or unethical to charge for your services/product provided, or for free? It may depend on how you make your income. For me, if you got a 9-5 job and can provide for yourself, and make a game for free or for a fee because of energy/time/attention spent making the game, sure it's ethical, but the unethical part is false advertising and marketing, and be like the Logan Paul situation with crypto zoo, take the money and either deliver a weak product/service with little value provided, or no value provided at all and run off with the money. It'll be distributed for free, until it's not.

@StarStruck Are you in the moral right to use A.I to take a style from a dead artist?