roopepa

Turquoise is not the highest stage. In Spiral Dynamics it is, but there are other similiar models. Turquoise is not 'free of ego', nor 'enlightened' in a way Nahm, Sadhguru, Spira, Osho or others like that are usually recognized as. Ken Wilber would call this Tier 3 (Indigo or beyond), aware of Self, aware of Oneness. Turquoise is holistic, Indigo is unitive. Turquoise is the later integral stage, late vision-logic, peeking into transpersonal (Tier 3) states and stages time to time. My wild guess would be that Leo is centered here. Turquoise 'has' suffering, has ego, has problems, but it's far less identified and now goes with the flow. Turquoise is only beginning to peek into what we may call mystical nature when in everyday 'baseline' consciousness. Turquoise recognizes the mind and emotions as objects of awareness, but the subject/object duality is not yet let go. Yet, this is "just" a model, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. I am lost. Nothing to see here.

I'm reading a book which heavily leans on the teaching of the course. I have not read ACIM itself, even though it's waiting on my bookself. It has this weirdly strong 'energy' to it and I'm not sure what to think of it. I feel like there is something extremely powerful going on there and I fear it a little. I know it's kind of stupid to ask anyone stuff like this, since it really seems to be the case that I can't in full honesty rely on any other source than my own authority. But here it is: It seems that the course explains the dream/reality in a very different manner than most other teachings. As I understand it, the course says that the dream/world/sensory experience is due to a single "thought" in the mind of God/Oneness, which is basically that of being separate. The thought of being separate is the "sin" and feels "guilt" for losing the unity with God. This then causes the Mind to divide itself to multiple parts, even though it never actually happens, but only seems like it. The course says that it is the guilt that creates the world, sensory experience itself, by projecting it's own guilt and fear on "the other", hence creating a world to "hide" in. Something in this 'explanation' resonates a lot, though it brings a weird anxiety. I always had this idea that the world would be a playground, a place for Love's expression, rather than a projection of this "guilt" or something. I don't know if it's just my own interpretation, but this seems very different from what I've heard others say. How come it is still possible for the world to exist, or for me to "create my own reality", if the guilt is recognized and made undone? I'm just weirded out on how different this seems to be from other sources. It makes it seem like Oneness/awakening would be just total nothingness and that's it. No creation, no 'experience', no fun and games in the dream world, no expression. Why do I feel like I'm missing on something super obvious and being really stupid?

Are you conscious of absolute truth right now? Are you awake? If not... If you believe you are deluded, not "awake to the truth"... Why do you believe any thought, teaching, map, idea, previous experience or basically anything about spirituality/awakening whatsoever? You just said that you are deluded, that delusion is all you know, your only "refrence point". You said that you are not conscious of Truth. Why do you think any of your beliefs/thoughts has anything to do with Truth then? In other words... Is the belief about "you not being awake" not delusion then? It seems that I've been creating my own delusion.

Oh my god.

Why are we "here", why is there suffering, why do we experience certain things, why life seems to work for some people and others not, why it seems like there is a beginning and an end? @Leo Gura This one you would find interesting, I think. What is life? Like really, what is this? Literally everything in my life seems to be about life. Weird.

Exactly.

Why is consciousness "stuck" in a certain state?

Just a thought... Maybe what ACIM refers to as "guilt" can also be called "denial". Ringing any bells?

The book is from a finnish author. I don't think it has been translated.

Is "me lacking the proper state of consciousness" not a story?

@Leo Gura The book I'm reading gives a map like this: 'Before' any duality, there is Oneness/God/Infinity. Because it is infinite, there must also occur "a thought" of "what if there is something else than all that is". This resulted in the first division, that of a Big Mind and a small mind. The second division is the small mind dividing into "the right mind" (holy spirit) and "wrong mind" (ego). The third division is when the ego recognizes that it separates from Oneness and thinks the separation "actually happened" and is now separate from God. This results in fear and guilt that is so huge that the ego thinks it deserves to be punished somehow, even though any separation has never occured. This creates a division of guilt/punishment. An image of a condemning god. Now, the ego identifies itself as 'being guilty'. The fourth division is body/world, where the ego "hides" because it fears the god's punishment. All the suffering, terror and chaos is due to this 'forgotten' or 'unconscious' guilt we feel and the fear of a punishment we think we deserve. We project our fear/guilt outside, creating (or perhaps identifying with) the dream. Do you think any of this makes sense? Also, @Nahm @allislove

@Preety_India Take a deep look here. The very idea that you should be selfless, IS selfishness. You are just holding onto an identity and thought-story of "selflessness" and now feeling the insanity and nonsensical nature of it. If anything would be truly selfless or spiritual here, it would be for you to let go this story of a self that should be selfess. What a freeing realization!

@Preety_India I understand what you're saying. I took this "survival vs. spirituality/love" mind-story to a very dark place, psychosis, and almost killed myself. Basically... To the extend I understand it, you cannot "not survive". Even the fact that you judge yourself about your selfishness and survival IS survival and selfishness, only in a very deceptive manner. The "you", the very identity and the "decision maker" you think you are is the one surviving. There is no "a you" to transcend or let go survival. Even to try doing that would be survival. Remember, survival is not just about the physical body, but also mind-stuff, identity. For example, think of those Islamist suicide bombers. They physically kill themselves in the name of their muslim identity. The "you" cannot transcend survival. There is no-one that does that. There is nothing the story-character can or has to do in order to trancend itself, because it is the one that is being transcended. The You simply remembers that it's watching the story unfold, and that it is the story itself. This is the actual no-self. Not the selfless story character you think you are or should be.

This is a reminder for myself and for someone there who may need it. YOU CAN ALWAYS STOP PLAYING THE GAME. You can just let go - by choosing another game, another perspective. You can always stop playing a game of: - Spirituality - Seeking the Truth - Becoming more selfless - Logic - Politics - Relationships - Good and bad - Learning, growing and waking up - Depression - Anxiety - Fear - Addiction - Not being enough - Being guilty etc... And remember... There is no judgement. There is no right and wrong. There is no 'more righteous' or 'more corageous' games. These qualities are all parts of the game - drawings on the paper, rather than the paper itself - and can be let go, whenever you want.

@nuwu I think I get you. You are burning alive. So am I. Wanna be friends?

What do you mean by "imaginary"? If you don't go and jump off a bridge to your own death to show me the "imaginary-ness" of it, what meaning does that word have? Why don't you call it "non-imaginary" or "real" then? One user on the forum already killed himself. When will you take your words seriously?

I have been on the edge of insanity and suicide. If one says death is imaginary, they should have no problem showing me there is nothing to fear.

Why don't you jump off a birdge then and show me?

By the way @Nahm the pictures of the Ox-Herding are misplaced on your website. I don't know if you are aware of this. You might want to fix it.

I'm so done too. This is a battle with mountains of bullshit. And there is no reward. But this one will pass. It always does. After a few days, a few months, a few years... A new clarity will be there. The truth is... This is The Game. This is the Ultimate Game. There is no other like this one. I don't know what this leads to. But this is IT. I know it deep inside, and you do too.

@EmptyVase @Nahm Truth/Love/Consciousness/Nothingness is like an ocean. Beliefs and thought-attachments are the same water put into cups. They are isolated from the natural currents of the ocean. The borders of the cups is fear. The friction between the natural currents of the ocean and the isolated water is suffering. Via feeling and consciousness the borders are recognized to have never truly been there. And the water is poured back to the ocean. Now they are part of one infinite whole and it's natural currents.

Make the train a rollercoaster and I'm vomiting and losing my mind at the same time.

I don't really need any guidance. There is really nothing to gain or to learn from anyone. Each time I feel this need to read another book, watch another video or to ask another question from someone I just know that it's just my bullshit. The only thing I want from these sources is really just some easy feel-good relief and new ways to avoid the actual work. I feel the self-deception and unturth and it is making me sick. Dear God. Months and years of avoiding responsibility and the actual work. My bullshit can't bear the pressure for very long anymore. I feel like I'm so close to taking the first true steps. My life and identity is on fire. 95% of all the 'spiritual' shit I've been thinking and talking about has just been mountains of bullshit. I don't know shit about anything. I have just barely been scratching the surface of the actual work. Oh my god. I feel like I just want to vomit.

@Nahm I'll add it to the dreamboard.

Leo refers to this a lot. Would be good to have a deeper look in what it is, what causes it and how it plays in politics.