Azrael

OMG, you just came up with the most beautiful counter argument to this point. Nothing to add. Applause to you.

Probably. Your dreams work through unconscious stuff. If you think a lot about enlightenment, you'll dream about it. Just as with anything else. Yes, you can become completely absolute in that state. Happens sometimes after you've taken 5-MeO. You don't forget to be aware. You are still aware when the ego kicks in, as you say. It's just that the content of awareness changes when ego is there. It's like you put on a suit through with you perceive the world. When an enlightened man thinks, there is no make-belief fake persona in the back of his mind that says: "Yeah, baby". No one, who is excited, no one who is sad. There might be thoughts, might be excitement, might be sadness, but no one who suffers from them. That's why on one level the experience of the enlightened man is exactly the same as of the unenlightened while being completely different at the same time. For the enlightened everything still happens the same way, it's just that there is no one there who experiences it.

In the fully conscious state there is a coherent story of thoughts happening. Because it's coherent, it seems to your "watcher" that everything is fine. When this coherence gets out of balance because you are for instance depressed, sad, dreamy, injured, ill etc. it seems to the "watcher" that something is not working properly. As a normal reaction resistance is brought up because that's what automatically happens when you are in a situation that you don't like. So, the state of numbness is nothing to get rid of, it's the resistance that needs to be released. Where do you go in that state? Well, picture it like that: Say awareness is a big TV portraying your story and let's say there is a feature to the TV that it can know whether something is happening on the screen or not. When you are clear and alert, there is a good movie running. When you are dizzy, fatigued, ill, dreamy ... the TV is switching channels. YOU are always there as the TV. It's just that its content changes.

Let your friend do EMDR. It will be much faster than meditation and work quite instantly especially with PTSD and traumas. Research it. I've done it for other reasons and it's one of my top 5 knives when it comes to cleaning the mind / nervous system.

Soo, I am just back from my Vancouver vacation. I met @Be Yourself who lives there and he introduced me to the place. Thanks for that again. It was very nice. He got me some of that good BC weed, we had a lot of very deep discussions about the whole journey and we actually tripped on acid together and shared a nice trip. It was very spiritual in many regards. Cheers to you, man. Plus, I went to a concert of one of my favourite rappers who actually inspired me with a song to create this avatar, called Azrael. I'll come back to that city and probably move there in a few years. This trip report - however - is about an experience that I had like a month ago that is by far the deepest I ever went. It took me so long to put this into words because it was so profound that I have actually a hard time thinking about it. Even right now it's kinda hard. When I trip these days I always trip on 5-MeO, doesn't matter which psychedelic I choose. If I do shrooms as I did in this experience, it's 5 hours of 5-MeO combined with shrooms. This brings tripping to a whole new place for me. Because there is a very distinct difference in having a nice and profound experience compared to having a complete dissolution of your normal perspective and going to a different place. I'll talk about that in a second. I think I went to the same place @Leo Gura went in this trip. I've talked to him about that. Of course I can only listen to his description and my trip was very different, but it's like you go to Mars. It doesn't matter what place you visit on Mars, if you hear somebody talking about it you know whether he went there or not if you went there yourself. It feels like that. So I had a very big smile on my face when I listened to the video. You know that shit gets serious when Leo doesn't start with "Hey Leo" no more. But let's go back in time roughly a month ago. I'm in my apartment, currently learning for my exams for over a month now. I'm a little exhausted from that. Also, I got the first harvest from my shrooms grow kit that is fully dry now. I got a golden teacher grow kit for the first time and it brought me some nice, all natural shrooms. So I'm thinking lets try the shrooms. It's in the evening, I weigh 3,5g of the shrooms and cut them into little pieces. Now I know that when I do 3+ grams of shrooms these days where I'm headed. But I didn't expect where it would take me this time. So, I eat the shrooms, drink some orange juice, put on my favourite tripping music mix and lie down on my bed. In the beginning I just chill, relax and wait for it to come up. So I wait. After like 20 minutes I feel that it starts. I get the typical super meditative shrooms vibe. Everything calms down, looks very sharp and nice. The body load comes on quite heavy, so I just try to relax more and get into it. I close my eyes and just breathe. The first thing that happens is that my body feeling slowly goes away. Before my awakening shrooms would always get rid of my tensions. Now I don't have a lot of my tensions in my body any more, but I can still feel it. So it feels like a wave is going through my body every few seconds and deletes the feeling of having a body quite drastically. I watch this and at some point it is totally gone. My eyes are closed at this point and I'm super relaxed. The body load is completely gone because there is no body any more. Ok went there before here and there. Then, the deconstruction of my personal perspective begins. You can picture it like a head that slowly deconstructs into all the pieces that it is made of. It's ego death to the fullest. It feels like going away. Firstly the concentration in the eyes deconstruct to the point where I cannot perceive sight any more. Then listening deconstructs to the point where I cannot hear any more. Then feeling goes away as well. At last there comes the ability to think, the total deconstruction of mind and through that the total dissolution of your personal perspective that is kept up by all these ways of perceiving. As the mind falls into a thousand pieces a lot of very scary things come up. I relive some of the bad things that happened to me in life. I also relive how I am eaten by a tiger and a crocodile, some crazy stuff happens. In the beginning it's very uncomfortable, but as I go through some of these scenarios I naturally begin to just take the pressure of the intense situation and ride on that. Then at some point they are finished and the last thing I think is "I am about to die". It is that cold and clear. I went a few times to this point in prior trips and it never went beyond on shrooms. Sometimes I freaked in the last moment and stopped the trip. This time - and I don't know why - I just took it because I was ready. It was okay. So at this point I feel "myself" to be a little electronic impulse going through my neurons. That's the last thing that is left of me. All the body is gone, all the senses are gone, all thinking gone - the present still remains. And I am now this tiny, tiny impulse in my head. Then at some point even that goes away. And when that happens, it feels like I am total presence, but still locked in this world, just that everything else went away. It then feels like this presence expands and expands to the margin of its reality and then it pops. It's like there is a man in a balloon and that is his life. The man is always in the centre of the balloon so he can never actually touch it. When he seems to move, the balloon moves. All that happens for him, happens in the balloon. He doesn't know that he lives in a balloon and he doesn't know how the balloon world works because the actual reality of the balloon is axiomatic to his existence. That means, that there is a bigger reality outside of the balloon that shapes and forms the balloon reality. It is an implication of the bigger reality and so can never fathom this bigger reality because it's a part of it. When I did the shrooms, first the little body of the man went away, then the head space of the man went away, then the balloon was left and then it blew up to the point where it exploded. I cannot really perceive how this felt. I think I saw some stuff, but it is not important either way. It felt like being sucked out of reality from behind. Like someone would grab you from behind out of this world. Quite crazy. Now the personal reality is totally gone. Azrael is totally dead. What happened. I still have a few pictures of the place that I went to and I can clearly see how I came back into the personal reality after it. So let me try to describe it. It feels like I am coming out of a book page in front of me into some place. I don't have a body, I cannot really think, but I can somehow perceive. Firstly, it is totally apparent to me who I am - God himself. Secondly, I instantly realize that I am coming out of a dream and that I have done this before. Then I see this book in front of me and the pages of the book turn by themselves very quickly and I see countless dreams. As I look into them it feels like I download countless bits of insights and information but it happens so fast that I cannot make something out of it. Then it goes to one specific page which shows me the nature of relativity - the explosion of Yin & Yang. I see into it and go through endless dreams as God. I go through the scenario of being eaten again by a tiger and a crocodile as God and it does nothing to me. I feel nothing. I can see it clearly but I feel nothing. It's just an intense experience that happens but nothing more. It's not even intense in that situation. It's just one dream world. Then I go into a lot of other worlds and I see how they manifest in nothingness. I see how they come up in this book and I see how they have endless structures and dynamics to them. It's happening really fast so I just get a a glimpse of that. But it doesn't matter what happens in the dreams because I begin to understand how they work. All of this time insights and information hit me. I don't know why and how and can't even explain how it feels, but it's just clear that it happens. Then after this the book turns to the page of my dream "called Azrael" again and then I slowly turn into this. It really feels like going into the page. While this is happening everything turns black and I see a thousand little particles in this blackness arise. It feels like a concept space arises and it slowly gets together and creates a total conceptual reality in this pure empty presence. And as it does it I become that. As this happens I remember that I went through this before. When I was born the first time into this perspective. Now I'm back in this dream, in "my room", in "my body" and it slowly begins to work again. I breathe for the first time again. The body feeling slowly comes back. the mind comes back. I'm still completely aware that I am God and I am completely aware that everything here is conceptual. Conceptual and non-existent to the point that I could cut myself with a knife and I wouldn't feel it. I was in that mode for a few more hours after the trip until it closed down to my normal awakened reality. But to this day I can sense how this dream works. How it comes into existence every moment and that it is completely conceptual. Completely groundless. Now, this is the best I can describe what happened. It doesn't even cover 1% of what really happened because it sounds that I just went bad shit insane. It surely does. And maybe I cannot convince you that I didn't, but that's fine. From this day on it changed completely how I perceive the world because I saw for the first time how it actually manifests. Bad shit insane. I would have never thought that our dream reality is that fucking crazy. If you are brought up with the normal scientific paradigm that you live on a planet and are this body it is bad shit insane to see that this actually is a complete conceptual, groundless dream happening in nothingness. In nothing at all. In a concept space. Soo, that's the trip. What can we make out of it. Firstly, let's get rid of some misguiding perceptions. Is the place with the book the place where you go after you die? The place itself, probably yes. The stuff with the book and shit, probably not. Why? It became apparent to me when I went there that relative reality is actually not one reality but an endless fractal of realities. So we live in our dream right now that has certain properties. It looks a certain way, it works a certain way, it feels a certain way. There is a concept space of stuff that can happen and there is a creative, intelligent force that makes certain stuff appear in this concept space. It's like a river of patterns and structures that is flowing to you right now from nothingness that makes up everything you are in this dream. Now this dream concept space is enforced by another reality, another concept space that is axiomatic to the dream. It creates the dream. So there are different things to see there, to feel there and to perceive there. Stuff works there a different way, but it works also in a certain way. Just as we are able to build a car in this dream, the reality behind that is able to create these dreams. How it does that, I don't know. What else you can do in this space, I don't know. Are you still some kind of individual in that space, it's strange. I felt to be God and absolute - just as on normal 5-MeO very clearly but at the same time it had an individual aspect to it. I will need more trips to explore that. So the stuff that I saw there and experienced there is as relative as it is in this dream. It's just that it's a different concept space, a different reality. That's why you will see different things there, because it's a different world to explore. And lastly, this is not the end stage. As I said, relative reality seems to be an infinite fractal of realities. That means that the dream you are living right now is implicated by the place I went to and the place I went to is implicated by another reality. And it seems to go on like this. Just because it's relative, completely conceptual and groundless. So, to sum things up. When you die, your dream ends for sure. Your current relative reality pops. You'll then probably go to the place where I went. I'd guess. How it'll be for you, I don't know. What will happen there for you, I don't know. I don't even know what'll happen for me there. But something will happen in some way or another. Reality is actually a fractal of realities, one creating the other, totally groundless, totally conceptual. You can realize that this is so right here and now, in this dream. You can go there yourself and experience how it is like to die and be born. You can be God. Well, you are God any way. Now, I know myself that this is a big pill to swallow. And trust me it's even harder when you experience it yourself. That being said, understand that I just describe in the best way I can how it was for me. It is still a description and can never portray to you that this is actually the case. Maybe it convinces you, probably not. That's fine. It's enough that I have seen it for myself. What you have to do now if you wanna experience the explosion of Yin & Yang, the nature of relativity, is to go there yourself and see that this is so. To do that you just need some 5-MeO trips and then every psychedelic that you'll take after will with time bring you there. For sure. I'll let you know whether I go to this place again in future trips and if I do, what I can bring back. Until then, be good to yourself. Cheers, Azrael PS: I'm thinking right now to go to the US next summer and visit some big cities so that I can make a decision whether Vancouver is the right place for me or not. I'd like to see a little bit of the east coast and then some more of the west coast. So, if you live in a big well-known city that is exciting, let me know. Maybe we'll meet.

@Toby, thanks for the sum up. I think however my experience here goes into another direction. It was more about the structure of reality then different states of consciousness.

Can you sum it up? Won't watch the whole thing.

Maybe I couldn't portray well enough what I experienced. There was of course something happening in awareness, yes. But this was secondary. What I got from the trip mainly is the understanding of how this dream reality works by stepping outside of it and seeing how it comes into appearance. How the creative force of reality manifests. What it showed didn't matter, but how it does that, did really much. But sure this was just a taste of it but enough to completely shatter my old picture of reality and giving me new ground to work with. You are completely right that mushrooms are probably too twisted for that work. I'll probably go for some AL-LAD in the future. Thanks for the suggestion, that's a good tip.

I got a good taste of how being born, dying and relativity works. I saw its mechanics in front of my eyes. I wouldn't say that it put all of my questions to rest because there is still stuff I don't understand and there always will be, but it was ground-breaking in seeing directly how reality works.

I had a kundalini awakening last summer before 5-MeO. Was it full-blown? I don't know. I'm not an expert with kundalini. I can only recognize that it was an kundalini awakening based on what I read.

When you start with meditation your nervous system is just from an energetic perspective like a music festival. A lot of stuff happening, a lot of shit in the system, crazy people, etc. Then when you try to sit and do nothing it's like you shut off the music and all the hippies go crazy because they can't party no more. Some people will go shortly after it and some other will stay and protest. It's the same with your nervous system. It takes some good time 'till the last hippie is gone and the festival is completely empty and everything that remains is the still, beautiful nature on that the festival was actually hosted. Btw., I'm a big festival fan myself. We go party hard in the summer here in Germany. But this analogy kind of explains this part of the journey.

Very true. If you ever experience a state of no-thought that is effortless and is kept up for a longer period of time, you'll discover that decisions pop up like hiccups and that no thoughts are required. What you experience right now is that you have a decision come up like "I will go to the toilet to take a dump" and while this is arising there is also a thought arising that says exactly that. Through that you are tricked to believe that a decision comes from a thought (that you freely think). That's an illusion. Decisions come up by themselves, thoughts do so as well. One might influence the other but is not depended on the other. That being said, there are of course scenarios in our complicated conceptual world that need intellectual ground work to have what we might call good decisions. For example you could have the decision come up that you'll give away all your money to charity. But because this is a risky move for your self-survival before that decision would ever come up there would come up a lot of thoughts that think about that (for a normal person). The same is with decisions that need intellectual information because the decision itself is intellectual. Let's say, you wanna go on vacation. Normally a bunch of thoughts will arise that trigger little decisions like "go research that", "go think about that", ... until in the end there will be a decision like every other one that'll just pop up and make you do the "right" thing. It is just that your unconscious mind needed more information and so it triggered thoughts and little helper decisions to make the big one. It is surprising however - when you find it out for yourself - that most of the decisions you make throughout your day need no to very little thought. Every word I have written until this point in this post did not take one thought. It just came by itself. Although you might think this is a very intellectual manner. Well, the unconscious knows pretty well what it does, I guess. So, how do you train yourself to make decisions w/o thoughts. Because it takes training. Meditation is the big one of course. Without meditation you'll probably not be able to stop thoughts in the first place. Secondly, you need to learn to trust your intuition by letting it decide. This takes time and you'll fuck up a few things up on the way because your intution right now is probably pretty confused and sceptically viewed by your mind. I can tell you however that if you begin to trust in your intuition and train it, it'll make your life much more effortless and beautiful. Because your intuition even knows when to ask the conscious mind to think about something. It's just that the relationship to the intuition must be learned. To start with that ask yourself something you need to decide (with your internal voice) and wait if something comes up by itself and if what. Then act on that. Start with little non-risky things and then see how it develops. There's much more to it but you will figure it out along the way. If you once experience the genius of your intuition and you are fully able to act from that all of the time, you'll never want to go back where you were before. Cheers, Az

Couple of months. It came back from time to time though. Because you need to fully resolve it and see through its illusionary nature as just an attitude. But this resolving takes time. Can be different for anyone else. I have one friend who will probably never in his lifetime come out of this.

I feel that you can only be truly happy when you don't know happiness any more. In the sense of I started to be fulfilled all of the time when the distinction of happiness and not-happiness fell away. Then there is no defining no more because this is eventually what keeps you from being fulfilled in the first place. Because you draw a line in your head. You say: "Cake is great", "Trump is bad". And if your head doesn't say this no more, there's no one to be happy and no one to be sad and through that stillness arises that implicates the sense of sober fulfilment.

From my own experience what you have going on right now "the I cannot integrate with society attitude" is just a phase. Just keep digging. It'll fall off and a different phase will come up. This'll get stronger and stronger and stronger and it'll feel like you are completely falling apart (what you also are) and at some point you just die (the illusion of ego). And then when you're dead, there are still the phases happening but no one who cares about them.

I find Shunryu Suzuki to be quite a champion in communicating the whole way how to approach spirituality and integrate it in your life. There are a lot of great examples throughout time who where possible to spread the word. In modern times one of the ones that helped me quite a bit is Rupert Spira. His analogies and intellectual ability is extraordinary.

I'm from Berlin.

I've talked to Leo about his last trip because I had a trip a few weeks ago that was very similar and I'd like to make a distinction (that I will illustrate further in my trip report that is hopefully coming soon): There is a difference in having a trip getting into an enlightened high + having some very cool realizations and visions / mentally dying, leaving everything behind, surrendering completely, becoming god and opting out of your current frame of reference. These experiences are totally distinct. The first one is as you said in a lot of cases an egoic high because it feels so good and looks so cool and it's all well, blah blah blah. The second is going to the margin of dualistic (conscious / unconscious) experience, breaking through that (and out of your life / dying) and being introduced firstly to what we call God (the axiomatic principle that implicates your current frame of reference - your life) and secondly the world around that. Just a brief distinction that I will further discuss in my post. But there is a very great difference between the both in my personal experience. And there is way more to it. Now, of course you can still argue that everything you perceive is illusionary and through that all Maya, yes. But this illusion follows certain patterns and what we would call rules and it's the journey of spirituality to experience the very nature of this happening and how it interacts. One little subset of this is knowing who you are - "getting enlightened". I say little because I think it's much harder to grasp what a "door" really is then getting enlightened. Let alone what we call sentient beings like humans, dogs etc. Understanding the nature of these things is another enlightenment over enlightenment over enlightenment. It's an endless chain of enlightenments you can have with this. And Leo just let you in on the fact that he is progressing in that respect and from what I know myself it sounded like he knows what he talks about - just because I have seen it and you can tell if someone else sees it. That's my take on that. Now lastly, it shall be said that it is fine however you design your own journey and what enlightenments you'll have in this life. Because we all start in completely different worlds a criminal might have an enlightenment that leads him to never be violent in his life again because he truly saw some day that this is not the way (for him). I think that enlightenment for him might be exactly what he needs and for someone else it's something different. The fact that not every seeker will know who he truly is let's you in on the secret that not everyone should experience this right away. Think about that. Personally, I've been astounded how less I cared about spirituality and all that stuff after my enlightenment on who I truly am. I wouldn't think about it at all because it is now resolved. There is nothing more to dig there. So I go into other stuff like exploring other facets of reality that'll enlighten me on that. (What is way harder as I said) So whatever you do with your journey, is fine. It's just one step on a never ending stair that builds as you go along. That's why a good Zen student keeps the attitude of "Nothing special", because it isn't. It's just the way. (And of course that's another enlightenment that you first have to reckon.) Cheers, Az

I think for a youtube video it's not that bad. At least the few top ones that I read. Most people on youtube are just trolling or bitch-moaning and complaining. But that's totally fine. Leo talks about a territory that is contrary to all you know in normal daily life. I would be very alarmed if all the people were applauding him and being like: "Yeah, that's right." I have what I call the 5-MeO-DMT-Test in mind when I say this and it goes like this: "Would this person x still say what he is saying right now if we gave him one breakthrough dose of 5-MeO-DMT?" And the answer is mostly no. Mostly, there are exceptions of course. Some people's ignorance is probably even too hard to break with that shit and they would mis-interpret it completely. But then again, they ground you and make sure you still relate to the "normal world" when you are flying off high. You cannot make a baby recite general relativity to you - you cannot make someone who is still concerned with getting him right understand the nature of selfless being.

You think you are in low-consciousness mode because you are flooded with bad sensations and disturbing thoughts, but you aren't. What's happening is that the suit (that I talked about in my last thread) is opening up and all the daemons that are locked inside are coming out. So it's good. Just keep going on.

You have to see for yourself whether this is still mental or maybe a real condition. If you think you have a condition, maybe see a doctor and make some tests. This could be unrelated to this work. Be safe.

After my awakening this year I never had a moment in which I consciously tried to change my state of mind to achieve something. Meaning, in normal egoic non-integrated consciousness you often say to yourself "I should be more motivated right now", "I wanna get into this meditative state right now", "I should be x and y", and I've never done this no more. Not because I tried to not do it, but because it's not happening by itself. This automatically leads me to do most of the things I do without any thought at all. Cooking, speaking, working, reading, listening. It's just very empty inside. And sometimes I "wake up" in this emptiness and I don't even know what's happening because I'm so gone. Now, if you naturally have some bad tendencies inside you I can see how you can do very, very much worse when enlightened. Just because there is no one to stop you any more. There is still your intuition to do that and it does it just as before for a normal person, but I think a good amount of normal people would very instantly go insane if enlightened ... and that's why they aren't. We cannot take a world full of enlightened people with dumb intentions. That's why in Zen they discipline you rigorously before you have your enlightenment, so that you don't freak out. I think this is not discussed wide enough, because it's a bigger issue then you might think now. You have in most of your life time lived in a way in which you had a ton of emotions and thoughts going on every second of the day. If that is greatly reduced to silence, you won't have any reference to live in that world. And it takes time to get around here.

@Max_V, expect illness, physical and mental, pains arising from nowhere, headaches, signs of real mental illness, craziness, suicidal thoughts. This is all normal. Seriously, as heavy as this sounds. Just think of having suicidal thoughts as someone who would never think about killing himself. Well, it's fucking freaky, be prepared. Basically your mind/body are physiologically changing, rewiring themselves. The nervous system is changing and this'll trigger all kind of crazy shit.

Yeah and I think that if you are not intrinsically thrilled to know this stuff, you'll never get anywhere here because even if you are it's hard enough. Nothing against you, just an observation. That's why I say you shouldn't do it, if you have to will yourself into this.

If you ask that question you shouldn't do it. If you do it, you wouldn't ask that question.