Azrael

I once read up on how our ego develops and it seems to be the case that everyone undertakes the road of being an undeveloped ego when you are born - kinda like a blank slate, then learning and building up your own ego and then .. for most societies it stops there because then you are about 20-30 years of age and "grown-up". If you were raised by enlightened parents I'd say that you still undergo this process because it is how you function but it would be kind of natural to go from the ego state into the transcended state at some point, just as you go from the undeveloped state to the ego state. I would probably take less work than we have to go through. However, I'd say that the society would also play an important role. If you grow up these days and your parents are enlightened, chances are you see them as freaks and build a strong will against that kind of thing and use your time for playing videos games and smoking weed. But yeah, definitely easier to accomplish if ones wants to.

Great question, man! I think if you really want a scientifically-grounded answer read up on the Graves model or watch Leo's video about that. You can apply the model to certain individuals or to whole societies. So, if you analyze that you find out that the western world is kind of orange. Or let's say transforming from blue to orange, I wouldn't say we are there yet completely. And if we don't blow ourselves up we still need a few years - I don't know how long maybe a few hundred years, maybe just some decades - to go to green and then to yellow and so on. And even if we are at yellow, this doesn't mean that everyone gets enlightenment at some point. It is more probable that more and more people will chose to investigate that at these stages though, I'd say. So, everything is fine. An everything needs its time. Give our world the time it needs and let it still live in its illusion that ego + power + money + destroying everything that isn't you is the road the go. Maybe we are intelligent enough to not use a-bombs and have a future here. I doubt that though. To Leo's quote you mentioned, I wanted to ask you one thing: Are ethics or let's say your behavior the key to realizing your own nature? I doubt that. I think it can help, but I doubt that it's the key. Enlightenment is not the next big thing. I would love it if it were.

You have to see that there is not only a sudden awakening but also a whole path that can slowly bring yourself to awakening. As one reads a lot of books and tries to intellectually build a framework around this topic, I'd guess that the belief builds up that there is this key moment and from then on everything is different and you now dive in your enlightenment. And if you read such books as "The Power of Now" from Eckhart Tolle or you listen to some Zen stories (some masters awaken students with punchlines - this is really ridiculous but super cool) this belief strengthens itself. You can probably have such an awakening. What I have discovered so far is that like a pendulum you sometimes feel like you begin to see it and at other times you think you are completely lost. This happens to me a lot. Now, after a year I had phases in which I felt completely like you and thought this was the seed for my own awakening and then there followed grief and horror several weeks long. Like feeling hell, really. And you are just so mixed up, you even think that your meditation is not doing its thing anymore. You think you are doing everything wrong and so on. Its like all my fears and anxieties were given extreme power so that I am miserable. Now, after having this 4-5 times - always for a few weeks - the first year of my journey I started to see this pattern, researched it and now I see more clearly that at some times I saw a little into it and then I was bombarded with all kind of bullshit that wanted me to go back to my old ego. It surely feels like dying in some sense. This is not easy stuff. So now, I try to keep this in mind and when I see it I don't ask anymore "Is this enlightenment?", "Does it stick this time?", "Am I through?" and so on. And if I still ask these questions I know that it is just an automatic response from something constant and illusory in me that needs to be cut off. So, I hope this helps. Are you awakening my friend? Look really deeply into what there is and answer it for yourself and then keep quiet until it shines onto you all the time. Then you know. .. or I guess that

What is the difference between a professional piano player and me hammering those keys unconsciously but gently and good-looking with sound off? Basically, I can trick you into believing both pictures display the same scene. However, as I turn on the sound very slowly and steadily you begin to notice that although both scenes may look the same, there is a whole other dimension you weren't able to see because you overlooked that little innocent button that made all the difference. Meditation is turning on this button that was always there but seemed gone.

Sounds like you wanna nibble some DMT, ha?

@Leo Gura Who introduced you to enlightenment and what really hooked you onto your own journey? What told you right away that this wasn't just philosophy or far-out eastern fairy tales?

Personally, the only thing I really gave up is spending way too much useless time hanging around with friends doing nothing. I used to do this every evening before I started this search. Now, I use a lot of this tome for meditation or even other productive goals. Was a little strange at first but I shifted that slowly with time and now I cannot think to go back. I still do all the other bad things you decided not to do anymore. I'm still a mean asshole sometimes, I still eat salt and sugar, I still do the good stuff and so on. I quit smoking and biting my fingernails, however this came naturally with meditation. I would've never stopped smoking because of all the people's standard excuses: health, smell, the cost. I was way too much in love for that silly excuses. But meditation decided otherwise a year ago and I'm very okay with that. My parents are as well. But basically you have to ask yourself why do you leave all these things behind. Are they keeping you away from seeing your own nature? Is your job keeping you away? Your spouse? Spicy food? As we know they can be, of course. But you won't get enlightened if you really like all these things and cut them out because you think you have to. You will do this for 1 or 2 months and then come back because it's too hard. And then you'll maybe quit the whole thing. The wisest thing I can say about this is: If you really wanna quit on drugs, bad food, all the goodies that society gives you to keep you busy, build enough awareness and slowly let them go. Not with conscious effort but let your intuition chose when it's time. This way you'll not suffer and have much easier ride. And never say to yourself: "I will never do ... again". Your ego will call this statement way too often in interesting moments of you life. Anyways,

Who asks that question?

30 minutes definitely. Maybe you have more instant effects like feeling more relaxed throughout the day doing 3x 10 minutes per day but doing one 30 minutes session will purge more shit out of your system. Duration really kicks it hard. Think about a more drastic scenario: What is more effective in realizing your true nature - sitting for 8 hours or sitting for 8 days one hour per day. I think you know the answer.

@Neill great answer, dude! I'm studying computer science and I'm normally doing a lot of very abstract math or programming myself. I see it the following way: First of all, this is my number one passion. I love to see great structures that begin to live if I execute my programs. For me that's pure magic. Also, I'm totally in flow and love the stuff I do. If that is the case for you as well, why not go on? Doing anything isn't devilish per definition. You can and some say should use any task to realize your own being. If that's meditation, great. If that's walking around, great. Cooking, having sex, conversations, programming? All great. It's about how you go about it. Will you forget enlightenment and go back to the normal world living in the matrix or do you use your passions and interests to embody and see your true nature? So, you have to decide for yourself. However, on the long run I can also see your point with living the simple life. For me personally, my plan is to integrate my enlightenment work with my passions for now (I'm 20 years old) and then later I plan to shift it more into probably being a yogi, just sitting all day somewhere in Canada out in nature, experiencing pure bliss (or maybe in a Zen monastery, who knows yet). But this takes some planning and I have enough time left to really hit my passions deeply at first and then use the wealth I built to shift to the simpler life. So, that's my plan.

For the first 10 months on my own path I was really against looking deeper into Buddhism and study its principles because I just didn't want do become a religious person. I was really scared of that. I'm learning to become a scientist and my whole life I laughed about religious people so I had this limiting belief all set. Then, after enough pealing away the layers of bullshit belief I learned a lot about Zen. First from Alan Watts' lectures and books and then researching it on my own. What I like about Zen is that even Zen masters wouldn't probably call themselves Zen masters, not even Zen students. Probably they would call them self ordinary people. They don't belief in anything and don't want you to believe in something. Even if you look into reincarnation, they don't believe that you have a soul that is reincarnated. They just watched for hundreds of hours and came to the realization that as one center of consciousness fades away another wakes up. So as long as this goes on, there always will be creatures who "know themselves". And as you are everything you the self will manifest in one of these centers of consciousness having the experience of being limited. That's basically it. Just an observation. So, now I tend to look very deeply into Zen Buddhism because they have such sharp knifes to cut bullshit belief and don't want you to belief anything. The basic idea of the Soto school - if I got it right - is just to sit down erectly and see all of this for yourself. The only books they have like Shobogenzo basically give you pointers in which direction to look. That's why I really fell in love w/ Zen and had to get rid of my limiting belief. Do you have to do the same? Fuck no. You can chose whatever framework you like for you own journey. Or you don't pick any framework and just do any practice. For me personally I try to look into a lot of things and then get the methods and ideas that make me realize the most and I go crazy on them. Cheers,

For me personally it surely is strong determination sitting. I did self-inquiry for a few month, also combined with strong determination sits but I noticed that I had to shut up my mind completely and just look. I tend to over-think and analyze so this is the key. I did strong determination sittings with "Do Nothing" like 5-7 month, sometimes trying new stuff but basically as I said, and this brought me the best results because I managed to completely dis-identify incrementally from my thoughts to a point where I have a thought while not having the sensation of thinking. When this happened, from there on it took me to complete new levels. Really a no-return. A few weeks ago I started doing zazen, or let's say one form of it, counting the out-breaths from 1 to 10 repeatedly while focusing on the belly to shift your awareness from thinking to feeling and sensing. I do this with strong determination sits and this blasted my meditation even deeper. Like nuts, really. For me this works because now I hang on so much to the breath that I go totally out of my head - which is doing its counting - and I can begin to see what really is in front of me. Game-changing for me. I also tend to do that a lot during the day, while walking, waiting, cooking ... The point here being is the following: What Leo said in his video today is the important key. I have found my method - strong determination sits - and nuanced it with various other ones - as said above - to really find something that fits to me personally. I went with every method mentioned a few months and am applying zazen for a few weeks now. All the intellectual stuff and thought about this journey comes together in this daily habit to open my eyes. So, this is my game. For now. Check it out if you like, but more importantly find one that does the trick for you best.

Basically by working with to-do lists. This does the job for me. It sounds simple, but in this case simple is very significant. For example, if I have to learn for 5 weeks this can seem pretty overwhelming. What I do is that I research all the topics I have to learn in advance, then structure them and add to each day of the work weak different topics to learn. I take enough time for each one, add some days where I just do testing and some other where I just go with repeating the prior ones. This way I can take off the weekends because I never come into this situation in which I have to do an all-nighter. Planning is key w/ learning. For every other bigger event you can do it as I stated above. For the actual day you can just list the topics you have to do, weigh them with numbers and you are all set. Do this the day before you have to do your tasks. Also, there are really nice apps out there so you can do it w/ your phone and e. g. auto-repeat some tasks. I tend to go that way a lot. The psychological trick here is the following: IF you actually go with this simple method and you have some time off in the day you tend to go over the list and do a few little things and then plan to do the bigger ones. And most importantly, cross them off when you're done. That's the 20% of productivity tricks you need to get the 80% outcome.

Interesting question. I study computer science and have times in which I have to learn for 5 weeks straight, 5 days a week, 6-7 hours a day. Also I'm heavily invested in looking into Zen, enlightenment, all this kind of search. So basically what I do is that I retreat while learning for the exams. I meditate a lot, do walking meditation, be highly concentrated while learning and really merging with my discipline (the stuff I learn). I really look into how I can play the game of what I study as productive and effective as I can do and all I need to know about that, basically comes from self-actualization. Use what you learn here and apply it in every situation you're in. Every game you play is best played by knowing that it is a game and by studying the rules (self-actualizing). Most "normal" people who don't look into this will call this cheating when seen in action and if that happens you know you're on the right track. Cheers

Yeah, kind of. Though you don't even have to advance like you were doing something wrong now and in two month you advanced to something other. Does your experience while meditating change w/ time? Definitely. I started out feeling very bored, shitty, sometimes pissed, scared and now after a year I sit down for an hour and for most time it is pure bliss. Even if I have a meditation in which a lot of shit purges out of my head, it is still bliss to me. I can sit in a lotus-like posture w/o any pains whatsoever. But this needs to develop over time. I'm not more advanced than you, I just probably purged more shit out of my system so my meditation manifests a little different. So, the takeaway is: Be patient. Everything else comes with time. Personally, my meditation benefits - or let's say nice side effects - started a week after I started the practice. I stopped biting my finger nails w/o intending to do so, after I did it since I can remember. This is typical, because meditation lets inner stress go. The second "achievement" was that I stopped smoking cigarettes two months later w/o intending to do so too - and I was a very passionate full-time smoker. I just got up one day and had the sudden realization that I can't go on this way. A few weeks after that relaxation + concentration levels started to get over the top and since then I experienced a lot of similar stuff - deep meditative states, seeing glimpses of the self, having deep realizations about reality and life and so on. Basically, I go through different phases every month that peal away the layers of bullshit I built up over the years and show me kinda artfully what is out there. You will encounter with enough practice what for "not-meditating human beings" can seem like super powers (to some extend). Like feeling extremely comfortable in high-stress environments, being on purpose highly relaxed and/or concentrated, start hallucinating on purpose like you are on acid/shrooms and a lot of similar stuff. With meditation all of these are stages you go through and you will be amazed by them. So to the sum this up, no it's probably not placebo with your first benefits. I used to think that too in the beginning because one is not experienced with what is coming with meditation. So lay back, and enjoy the ride. You are definitely doing the right thing here. Cheers, Arik

You can definitely meditate informally throughout the day. I commonly do it in the subway, while listening to lectures in university, sometimes while talking to other people or just going around, cleaning, whatever. This nowadays is very simple for me because of my existing meditation habit. I can just raise my concentration + relaxation to a level where I feel this tingling sensation in my body while being totally concentrated and in flow w/ whatever I do. However, this would be probably very difficult to manifest if I hadn't implemented the formal meditation. If I think back, I needed a few months - I'd say 4-5 - to get to the level where I could easily meditate in any - or let's say most normal - situations. So, yes it can definitely be done. The question is whether you can do it w/o a formal practice. For me, that would be harder. Find out for yourself. However, I think a formal daily practice has a lot of benefits - so consider that too. It's kind of like the root from which all my spiritual and also productive life growth originates from.

Great advice, @Henri. I wrote a diary every day for the first 6 months of my journey and then another 6 months once per week until a week ago when there was no urge any more to do that. It was very liberating and helpful to write everything down and brought me to a place where I don't need it any more. I don't feel alone, ever. Because I looked so deeply into it. I can just really recommend to do that. Most people will probably come to the point in this search where they think "I have nobody to talk to about that" or "I spent so much time alone doing this" and you need some perspective to understand that. If you have it, you can never be brought down with this again.

I'd also suggest what Leo stated - or even just sit down for 3 months everyday for a hour and do nothing. I think you need some pause from compulsive over-thinking and analyzing. Just sit and zoom out. At first it's boring and you don't want to do it, later on you see more and more that you are involved in a story that is projected onto a screen and you are really looking for that screen but trying to find it in the picture (or story).

For me personally it changes what I do with time. I started out a year ago just with Leo's advice (self-inquiry) - from his videos. Then I got Eckhart Tolle's book and one from Alan Watts which extended my intellectual framework. Going on, I switched from self-inquiry to strong determination sittings and "Do Nothing" because I have more and deeper realizations with that techniques. I did that for 6-8 months while extending my framework with a lot of Shinzen Young videos, hours of Alan Watts lectures and lately some Matt Khan stuff. Then one and a half month ago I really stopped seeking enlightenment because I had the notion that it is the seeking that builds up my spiritual ego and keeps me away from waking up. So I stopped seeking and started being it. Seeing it in every moment, feeling good when I was good and feeling bad when I was bad. This was very important but it needed some time and a lot of prior realizations to happen. Now I switched to Zen mainly, because I can identify a lot with what they do. So I practice Zazen with strong determination sittings, apply the Zen mind throughout the day and read up on Dogen and his work. Basically you have to dig around a little bit and find your masters on the way. But more importantly is that you don't only consume the frameworks but really apply it in your day to day life. Not just in meditation but try to really breathe it in every second. For me, this brought me and still brings me everyday to a whole new place of knowing - and it's beautiful. Cheers, PS: I also watch some Rupert Spira videos these days. Heard of him in this forum. Stay around, you'll be introduced to a lot of great teachers and perspectives you can apply.

I can definitely say that strong determination sits will foster your progress with that, because it releases so much awareness that of course also manifests in your dreams. I actually had my first lucid dreaming experience in a time in which I practiced strong determination sits very rigorously. Did extra night sits and all that and it had and still has major influence on my dreams as far as I can see it. So yeah, that's definitely beneficial.

You don't, that's the point. What you experience right now are glimpses of the meditative state and you see how nice they can be. And of course you want more of them, but as you noticed yourself every time you try to go even deeper into them you just drop out. So what do you do about that? Well, you just do nothing about it and look deeper into what is happening. Finally you'll find so much beauty in every situation that you don't need the meditative state anymore to be fulfilled with your meditation. You'll come to the point where you just sit down, merge with what is in front of you and whether you are still, your monkey is talking, you're breathing deep or shallow you are just fine with that. And interestingly I can report that if you do that, you will experience even deeper meditative states. If meditation had a goal it would probably really be to stop yourself from creating more illusions that you can influence reality and bring you to the point where you just flow with everything there is - because that's what you do either way, whether you want to see it or not. So just relax and have a look. If you want to implement some awareness technique, do that. If you just want to flow, do that. If you just sit, just sit.

I can definitely see your point here. For me it feels like my extra long late night sittings release great blocks from my unconscious that are being melted down with my normal daily meditation routine. My biggest, deepest and fastest gains were achieved with my first 2-3 two hours strong determination sittings and adding numbers to the clock seems to be a great mean to go deeper. Interesting topic. My daily meditation however also does its job over the long run, I experience new phases every 4-5 weeks. it's like every few weeks another layer of bullshit belief vanishes from what I see in front of me and I'm completely stunned again.

Hey, I just had a very insightful meditation I wanted to share with you guys. Take the time to read it, it's worth it. So, I just came home from swimming and had my daily meditation. I currently increase my normal routine from 60 to 90 minutes so I was a little bit discouraged because I knew I would probably face some pains. However, it turned out differently. Because of the prior swimming I was instantly relaxed and into the zone. As a matter of fact I started to fade every few seconds from bring conscious to falling asleep, so I decided to investigate the fading. I sit very erect and still in my meditation, so when I fade I lose a little stability and instantly come back. This is very interesting and went on for I'd say 40 minutes. In that time span I put some awareness into it and it was quite amazing to experience fading away so consciously. It's like you get sucked away and then pulled out of something to be there again. With that came intense hallucinations, like I never had in a meditation with eyes open. When coming back I saw a couple of objects for about 3-5 seconds like they were literally in front of me and then they went away. Quite shocking and fascinating, I was probably in a hypnagogic kind of state. After these 40 minutes it ended in very clear super high focused awareness. Very physical, while my body was sleeping. Was kinda nice to experience, I have to say. Then after some time I got this normal sense of being bored that sometimes comes up in meditation. I thought about what I still want to do today and so on. And then it struck me out of nowhere. I was very aware of being bored. I saw it coming up, felt it and then saw it fading away. While this was happening I had a quite clear picture of the components of boredom. It was like a very, very subtle physical sensation of being frustrated, a little fear, a little anger and maybe some disgust. Very, very, subtle but with high awareness I could sense it very clearly. Also, mentally I had thought streams about the future. And then it just occurred to me that boredom is nothing else then you torturing yourself out of no reason, just because of social conditioning. It became very clear to me that there is nothing negative to trigger this boredom. It just comes up because of lack of distraction, automatically. And has no purpose whatsoever. It does not protect you from anything, nothing. It was just implanted into you back then because it is the most normal thing in western cultures. We are bored all the time. Think back when you were a little kid, how everything was an adventure. All the grown ups around you were bored, but not you. You could go to the supermarket and it was amazing to see all these things there. You also had no feeling of time in you that could bring boredom up. You had lots of emotions, but not subtle self-torture because of no new stimulation. After some time you just adopted this from friends and family because it is so common when your ego builds up. But that's a hoax. There is actually nothing really that is bad about no new stimulation. It is just your expectation that there always has to be something new. This really lifted me up. You maybe want to explore that next time you feel bored, it's very subtle but significant. It destroys a lot of the inner peace you could have. Like really a fucking lot. Just think about how often you have to wait for something and are bored. So any ways, just wanted to share this. Look into it, it's worth it. Tell me what you think about it. You Bored? Cheers, Arik PS: It's really astonishing to see how much we tend to fuck ourselves up because of no reason. And nobody notices that, never. Or does something about it. We just give it to the new members of society. Man...

Hey man, sounds like good progress to me. Keep it up. What eventually develops with "Do Nothing" is a kind of inner understanding, a knowing that is present all of the time and always remembers you that all you think, see and hear are just games. Or let's say, that how you still perceive these things are games. With this knowing inside of you - you can even reach a point where you are completely fucked and you secretly begin to enjoy it, because you can see right through it. And especially with fear or other strong emotions. It can be amazing to experience that and is paradigm-shifting. Also, when you "Do Nothing" long enough and manage to let your brain flow as it flows you finally get out it and to a stage where everything seems kind of rhythmic. It's strange because you normally don't experience that throughout the day because one is so identified with his thoughts. But when you let go and they stop or you "get away" from them and are left with what is before your eyes, everything kinda feels like playing like a child. It's really fun, everything becomes a little bit like a joke to you but also like pure magic and you start to wonder why nobody values that. Anyways, good job for you

Thank's for sharing, I love Matt's stuff. I gotta say though, firstly I was really held back by the way he looks and the titles of his videos. Then I looked liked 2 or 3 videos and every one gave me major realizations right away, like I never experienced it with video content before. This guy really knows what he is talking about.