Consilience

I would wonder if the seeking energy transmutes to exploration/play but maybe not. I mean there are for sure still distinctions being made by mental energy and what we might call hierarchal significance for the purposes of self-survival activity, as ultimately empty as it may be. How the significance, preference, and intelligence manifests is always interesting to watch. In my own experience there is what many might consider “seeking” but what Id consider play. There seems to be a crystal clear recognition of the fundamental lack of duality between god realized states and taking a morning shit in a daze, for example. But the energy “curious to go within” is very alive, very palpable, and very appreciative of every. step along the ultimately pathless path. Not sure why there’s such a kick out of it but the wave does what it does ?

@Pateedm Thank you ❤️??

Do you see intensity ramping back up? Is there still suffering present within experience?

No there’s not. Both are ineffably beautiful. A chair can pull one into the infinite just as the cosmos can. What I love in particular about stars, space, galaxies, etc., is the grandiosity they introduce into the heart-mind. We’re looking at a very overt physical manifestation of our true nature that is nearly impossible for the mind to distort, as it does with chairs, although materialists still manage to pull it off. The spaciousness, vast like emptiness we see as we stare into the cosmos, the beauty and intelligence we see when we stare at nebulas or galaxy clusters… It’s just a fractal of what’s going on in every direction, it’s pointing home, it’s a mirroring of within. But don’t forget, so is a chair

A nice simple way to frame it is: Suffering = Resistance * Pain When resistance goes to 0, no suffering, even during pain. How is this achieved? By training the sensory circuitry of conscious experience to have a high level of mindfulness. More mindfulness = less suffering, eventually to the point of zero in extreme cases, like that of Buddhist meditation masters. Practically, start with just being mindful of your breathing, how the breath is intrinsically settling, re-setting, healing, and satisfying. Meditation is the number one skill you’re looking for. ??

A quote I randomly encountered today; it's so relevant "I felt in need of a great pilgrimage. So I sat still for three days and God came to me." - Kabir, a Sufi mystic

These 1000s of hours would be some of the most fulfilling hours of your life... Of course the ego would hate that, the idea that just being exactly as we are without some far out state could be just as meaningful as merging with God. Here's an insight for you - Only the mind of God would have 0 preference between and equal appreciation for awakening to itself as God in a psychedelic state and being in the grounded, sober state and just sitting.

Thank you dude. Really happy it resonates and appreciate your contributions to this forum as well. Thank you and you're welcome!

Thank you. I would trust the instinct to turn within. If you're feeling motivated to try 2 hours, ride that wave and see where it takes you.

Some of us just like to talk... 100% though Really appreciate it and very happy the content resonates. I definitely am going after vibes... Still working on it haha. Super glad you got Zen jolt because yes! Zen, while a bit squirrelly at times, is a powerful fucking lineage. A lot of wisdom to integrate from Zen that is impossible to do in one lifetime. And obviously no dig at Leo, but yes this is what I wish he emphasized more. On one level, I see he understands it based on how he responds in the small moments he concedes on the forum. But the presentation in his actual videos and in many other posts is that psychedelics are the ultimate end all be all. I think this is a momentous trap, a much worse trap than "meditating for 40 years and not being God realized." If you're following Actualized.org, using psychedelics, this risk is nearly non-existent. The real risk is getting lazy and not understanding the wisdom of manual practices such as meditation. There's the high chance he's leading a not insignificant amount of his followers into delusion, not setting them up for what they ultimately are after, which is Enlightenment.

Glad it resonated Stay consistent, long term results = short term consistency. Trust that source pulling you to go within. Really appreciate this @Moksha! I love the description of cardinal lines, it does seem to be what's happened really unintentionally. Hoping we can start swinging back into a more holistic view as a community. "Maybe it is possible to realize the serenity of unity and the creativity of division, while appreciating the reality and the beauty of both." All the feelz dude... ?❤️ Thank you ? And yes it is the key!! I'm happy to hear it's a similar focus. It really does radically transform consciousness, in ways that are extremely difficult to articulate and are only understood through the deep embodiment of serious sadhana. Wishing you well on your own path ?

Hell yes man! Good luck and more importantly, have fun! First, thank you! My go to meditation practice recently has been the "do nothing" technique, just sitting down in a space of complete surrender, except if I notice "trying" to surrender, then I surrender that lol. This is after having done tons of work with normal shamatha and vipassana techniques like those outlined in The Mind Illuminated or for example, Seeing That Frees/Shinzen's See Hear Feel technique. Honestly, if contemplation is what resonates do that! I think the big piece is the silence and stillness of formal practice. If that practice is holding a question and trying to directly experience something's fundamental nature, great! In a sense, this is what we're doing with meditation, but it's not quite as direct. Since you're really into contemplation, I would HIGHLY recommend Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. It's a book of koans that you can use as meditation objects during a form sit, or just read and contemplate as you read. Other books, The Mind Illuminated, Seeing That Frees, Mastering the Core Teachings of The Buddha, Science of Enlightenment, The Book of Not Knowing, Pursuing Consciousness. If you embodied what's in all of these books, you'd be a full blow Buddha haha.

Thank you man. Not sure Id go as far as to say it’s like Trump chasing women ? But I see your point. Just to reiterate though, I have explored psychedelics more intensely than 99% of the population, and more intensely than the overwhelming majority of the population that’s explored psychedelics. So please understand Im not anti-psychedelic. What Im advocating is the appreciation and recognition of just how powerful meditation is when done without the conceptual baggage of “meditation is pitiful compared to the power of psychedelics. Ill never be God realized while meditating!” All of the recent rhetoric on the forum regarding meditation vs psychedelics primarily lead by Leo, I view as bullshit, essentially. But please know Im not against psychedelic exploration, in fact I believe it has played a pivotal role with my success with meditation. The difference between me and others on the forum, it seems, I reacted from the psychedelics with an increase in the intensity, respect and appreciation for just how deep this practice goes. That being said, ya dude Im groovin with ya in that Now ?

I know ? my practice is peanuts compared to the grandiosity of cosmic time scales. It’s also peanuts compared to real mystics out there, but doing my best. Love the contemplations ❤️

Thank you man. Btw your recent breakthrough mentioned in your other thread is amazing. I had no questions but silently (now not so silently) excited for you as the path continues to unfold

Really appreciate that. Yes I do agree so much time is wasted with mental masturbation. Actually, finding the time for 2 hours of formal practice is a lot easier than it may seem when we realize how much time is needlessly thrown away through distraction. As far as the quote, yes that is very true but it’s one of those quotes that can very easily be coopted by the ego, turned into a belief that living life as we are and formally meditating are equivalent. While this is actually true, essentially, it’s not something we’ll actually live as experience without a shitload of consistency, intensity, and experience with formal practice. What comes to mind for me is the 10 ox herding pictures, just how profound the depths of this path really go, diligent practice being necessary every step along the way until the very end. But also, I think this has to be balanced with the quote you bring up from Rupert. When both are held in simultaneous balance, magic. Thank you again brother.

@roopepa ???❤️ Thank you

Thank you man. That’s super inspiring to hear you took the pandemic as an opportunity to deep dive within… 3-6 hours is seriously hardcore??

And only a fool wouldn't walk to pathless path. Real results from meditation occur when it's seen that no one is meditating, meditation is occurring spontaneously, and all of life is meditation. Don't bullshit yourself into thinking there's nothing to do, there most certainly is. If you don't meditate you're fucked. If you do meditate, maybe you're fucked too, but at least you're living a RADICALLY happier life than most. And when you realize there was no one ever meditating, liberation. Which meditation focused on insight will deliver. Not sure where you're getting the idea that there are no enlightened beings from these traditional spiritual lineages such as Zen, Buddhism, Advaita, Sufism,... There are countless examples.

If what's being explored is not a quality of this very moment, as the actuality of this moment, it is not going meta enough if the goal is Enlightenment. End of story. If the goal is to explore the depths of consciousness, absolutely with you. But Enlightenment is too a process, but a process that is inclusive not exclusive. The work you describe with psychedelics feels incredibly exclusive.

The object that wants to keep exploring these never ending, infinite depths is the very thing preventing the clear seeing of reality while in any and all states. Edit: And it’s actually incorrect to refer to it as an object, it’s an activity that’s completely void of ‘real’ substance.

??

Yes this is important ?? Although Id be lying if I said there havent been both sudden satori breakthroughs as well as the gradual “development” of enlightenment over time. The mindfuck is that it’s both simultaneously and neither at all ?

I think considering how deeply you’ve gone with psychedelics and contemplating the nature of reality, this is a complete non-issue. For you and the majority of this community. That’s the thing. At this point, undervaluing mediation or something like vipassana becomes a MUCH deeper trap. As you said, the hybrid approach is king.

It does though because many people on this forum treat meditation as though it’s child’s play and ultimately goes nowhere because of how much more powerful psychedelics supposedly are. 1) meditative states can be just as powerful 2) Im talking about transcending the entire fucking game altogether. That’s the path.