bejapuskas

@Forestluv Thank you for fighting this uphill battle. I have become aware of this myself recently, I hope I can be a good teammate.

Has anyone here considered that it might not be toxic behavior? I mean you only have so much information from what the OP has mentioned. While I don't consider porn cheating and I don't think it is an issue in terms of emotional attachment and stuff like that, it can affect a relationship in other ways and there are many examples of where porn affected a relationship in a negative way. Perhaps the girl is afraid of that and needs to communicate. Also maybe she just cares about pleasing her boyfriend and maybe thinks, because of some personal experience perhaps, that him watching porn means that she is not good enough in bed for him and she genuinely wants to improve by again, communicating. I guess watching porn is more understandable from this perspective during a pandemic, when people cannot see each other as often for obvious reasons, but if people spend a lot of time together having sex and then one of them wants to watch porn, there might be an issue.

I think it only creates problems if you try to understand gender is binary or a some sort of opposites. While you might perceive one person as the polar opposite of another person from some perspective, it is not possible to describe some other people that way, although they might have similar characteristics.

@JohnIsDoe Do you think she is good in bed?

So relatable lmao. I am not sure whether this is actually you experiencing psychic powers or just the LSD manipulating your thoughts into a kind of mystified version of them. For example you might be wanting to use language to communicate on distance, but instead your LSD mind goes like: Oh, I transform a thought into a sound effortlessly and my neighbor can therefore see my thoughts, what magic! It is really unclear where reality ends and imagination begins if you know what I mean. x) In my experience, this insight showed me just how amazing the mind is and how important it is to use imagination in everyday life in order not to go insane.

@Jon_Bundesen Yeh I find that often the environment that you create around yourself can pull you down. Leo talks about this in terms of spiral dynamics, how society helps you to reach a stage very fast but then slows you down as you evolve above that stage. For example when I was in our isolated school campus in India full of hippies, it was much easier to keep the young spirit going, but then when I came back home it became harder with more responsibilities and people around who are not as lively. It really is an all time active process and if you are serious, it never stops, maybe with death, but you can still leave certain things behind you. Try finding a community of motivated people around your area who are aligned with your life purpose. For example I was thinking of starting a student movement that would go against the education system and media, which are very west-centric and xenophobic in my country. But actually somebody did that for me while I was in India so now I am trying to join them in what they are doing and contribute the best I can. Perhaps something like that is also around where you live.

Trying different things to figure out what you want and what your values are can help, because from your interests and values you can create vision, which makes it easier for you to make decisions that you are satisfied with.

@gggkkk It is a stoic book definitely

@herghly I think this was the one and I don't think Leo would remove it. It was one of the ones Leo showed on his website for free.

He mentioned multiple times that he is trying to be more transparent, seen more as an imperfect figure, because so many people here were idealizing him. Now he is trying to mix integrity into the whole thing and it seems to be playing out quite nicely

@Nahm True, but most people are wasting time in online classes anyways and it takes little time and CO2 to connect online. Even though it still sucks ass, international online class > homogenous online class imo.

This is very profound.

@Nahm In my opinion compassion can be taught by dewesternizing the education system. What I mean by that is for example use art and literature classes to understand global issues, people's struggles, analyze them. Consume art from exotic cultures, from different artists, not just white men. Ideally in a class that involves multiple cultural backgrounds of students. Or teaching theatre, theatre can get very spiritual and psychic. But people are only concerned with the sciences and teaching how to use memory instead of imagination.

@Hulia Are you assuming I am justifying the Russian side? As a Czech? We are making stereotypes here and that's all nice. But like I do not believe that the elections in Russia are fair or that the people are not brainwashed to vote for Putin over and over. It is so apparent that it is corrupted. Many Russians suffer because of Putin's elitism and they do not want him, but his power is superior. I was not justifying Crimea and Donbass, I mean Russians already live in peace with Ukrainians in large number in eastern Ukraine, no? And you are also two different states while doing that.

Hey everyone, In reaction to Leo's video about Making Sense Of Jordan Peterson, we thought that it would be a good idea to discuss our understandings and perhaps come up with a body of concrete examples of where Jordan Peterson talks stereotypes and unfair judgement and where he talks wisdom. Be very clear on what you are analyzing and what is your intention and background. Always provide link to what you are looking at. Examples which are generalized or not complete lead to misunderstanding, stereotypes and do not support learning as efficiently. Be mindful of the fact that people do not see your body language or your exact thoughts when reading what you posted, really try to be precise and compassionate with each other here. This thread might be helpful for those who want to integrate spiral stages, especially those who find themselves having a Green shadow or aversion towards LGBTQI+ or feminism. We might discuss what having a shadow means, how integrity is important for people with an audience as large as Jordan Peterson or we might also talk about what communism is. The stage is yours. Just a few guidelines to keep in mind while discussing this: Avoid xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, racism, sexism, castism, toxic masculinity, Incel, Red-Pill, men-hating and other problematic views as we do not want to lock this potentially very useful thread. Be respectful and open-minded to other people's views. We all come from different contexts but other people do not know what kind of context are we coming from when we say what we say. Be mindful of this, explain and be empathetic. If somebody disagrees with you, it does not mean they hate you or want to attack you. Do not only present one-sided perspectives. There is no such thing as an absolutely right or absolutely wrong opinion or representation of anything. Everything in reality has nuances. This is especially true for complex thinkers like Jordan Peterson. While analyzing a video, article or anything else, please try and think of and write from multiple perspectives, not just one. Be mindful of the intended content of this mega-thread and do not post off-topic things like trip reports, non-duality wars etc... Feel free to use different models Leo discusses in his videos when analyzing Jordan Peterson content! Have fun!

@Daniel Lopez The people who design the kind of mainstream education system do not have this understanding, but luckily there are some neo-humanists schools that teach this, for example this one in Indonesia. https://woodschoolbali.com/

@Hulia Of course I mean that. I guess the situation in Ukraine is sadder because Ukrainians from my understanding often understand that the issue is the government, not the people. And Ukrainians and Russians can live peacefully together on one land, unlike Israelis and Palestinians in that area. @Raptorsin7@Eren Eeager I don't think any country deserves to be wiped out from the map if it includes murder and rape. The thing is, Palestinians have no chance of defeating Israel if they are so rich and also supported by the US. Israel was invaded by other Arab nations too, not just Palestine. But like Israel mainly focuses on Palestinians, it cannot afford to focus on all the different countries at once, they are not a minority in their view, minorities are easy to oppress.

@Tim R I understand your concerns. I think this thread is mostly meant for serious people. And definitely the guidelines I set can be disrespected in which case I will lock this thread.

@Zeroguy I did not want to attack Hulia. Just saying that not trying to talk about politics in an understanding way is counter-productive. Maybe that is what she also meant. @Tetcher Putin is bombing houses, which probably does force some people into a narrow strip. The war is still on-going. My friend does war photography there. There are still Ukrainian 18-year-olds throwing grenades and shooting Russians.

@Zeroguy I mean perhaps they vote and they do not have any issues with voting for someone who bombs civilians in Syria. And by expressing your judgement and fear of Arabs, you are subconsciously influencing others. The entire Western system kind of ignores and dehumanizes the Arab world, we do not really study it, many of us do not come into contact with them, we don't know their language or literature, our media has so many stereotypes about them. It is not a small thing, it has a fucking huge influence, so I think it is nice to at least take on the personal responsibility not to contribute to this systemic oppression by saying things like that. Perhaps if our system was not islamophobic, Trump and Biden would not have won and Bernie could have won. These are the implications, the change comes slow but it is worth to stand up for it.

@Insane butterfly Because the things that he judges and does not understand such as feminism, political correctness, communism, hierarchy and independence are important to understand and he is a good case study with a lot of material to look at. Also, many members of this forum sympathize with him or have a similar shadow like him, so it is in our best interest to study and try to deeply understand JP, rather than judging him or blindly trusting him. That being said, in my opinion, there are better intellectuals to study and there is a reason why Leo and I do not like JP that much as an influencer of the masses. It is just that because he influences the masses, we need to take him seriously in a way.

The problem of too much empathy I decided to analyze this video, because when I saw the title, I thought that most people have a lack of empathy and it is hard for me to imagine how somebody can have excess empathy. At the beginning, JP makes a good point that people vote their personalities more than they think. He describes how people are unable to objectively evaluate facts, partially because there are too many. (which however does not excuse the ignorance they have towards politics) This is why it is important to take politics seriously, because people do not and because of their selfish personalities, they influence the justice within a society in a negative way. As JP mentions, it is important to realize how our personalities work as a filtering mechanism of facts and how there in fact is no such thing as facts. A feminist looks at an issue differently than a misogynist for example, it is impossible to agree on what the facts are, but the general direction in which society behaves and develops can be improved towards more love and unity. JP points out that politically correct people are typical for having high agreeableness to which he has a surprised reaction at the same time. He also talks about how agreeableness helps us to stay in a relative peace, compassion and bondedness with each other. He says that agreeableness is connected to compassion and they are both important for taking care of kids, hurt people and those who cannot take care of themselves, but he also mentions that agreeableness is not good for building a political system upon. This is a typical example of JP creating a strawman of what political correctness is. Political correctness is the effort to avoid expressions or behaviors that exclude, insult or marginalize groups of people who are disadvantaged or discriminated against. This sounds like a good principal to build a society upon, diversity can lead to a better understanding, open-mindedness, uniqueness of knowledge, life-experience, skills etc. The opposite of political correctness is basically discrimination. What I find problematic is that JP replaces political correctness with agreeableness, which he often associates with women and nice guys, who he and his audience judge, and then criticizes it. Also note that JP as a white, straight North American probably doesn't face discrimination as often and political correctness does not benefit him as much, therefore his view on it is very likely biased. Then, JP makes a good point that a lot of impulsive compassion, being butt-hurt for other people, can destroy a person. It is true that certain form of non-attachment is needed in order to stay sane in this world. Perhaps not all people at the bottom are victims and not all people at the top are vicious snakes, but many are. Most people in this world live in poverty, many die from diseases they cannot afford to cure, many die in wars that are caused by xenophobia and hunger for power, many are denied the right for COVID vaccine because of vaccine nationalism etc. The way in which he belittles this reality and the way in which he is mostly coming from his western perspective and life experience is problematic. The world is not centered around West. Billions of people do not live in EU or North America. He judges people who in his eyes only feel and cannot think by presenting the word thinking as a virtue. However, people are inevitably stuck in their feeling, they cannot escape it, only focusing on thinking is a kind of denial. As I have already mentioned, JP is a hypocrite to talk about thinking as he does not take into account so many things, such as the oppressed and the things they go through, while thinking about this for himself. Again, this is most likely caused by him defending himself when being called out on being transphobic, misogynist etc. while being a straight white North American male who is not personally affected by these toxic views. (that also affect how a person votes, behaves in work environment, not just the way they speak) JP makes a good point that if somebody judges you for something you say and starts hating your entire persona for it, it is their issue. However, it has to be said that this is often not the case with many people who call others out on not being politically correct or who are feminists. They in fact do not start hating one's entire persona, it is their projection, because they are stuck in and defensive about their views. I also do not agree that one has to be a bastard in order to watch somebody learn how to be independent by struggling. This can be an expression of love, which JP probably understands. Seeing oppressed minorities struggle is not a way to make them more independent. In conclusion, when JP talks about dogmatic structures, he confuses two different ideas, from which first is making people independent by making them do stuff on their own and the other one is watching oppressed disadvantaged minorities who cannot support themselves because of toxic hierarchies struggle.

Some definitions of words which might be useful for you guys, read through them carefully for extra insights. Do not use a word or judge somebody's opinion if you are not sure what they mean: (Feel free to mention and use other definitions that you find interesting or eye-opening!) feminism - the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes (all sexes, male, female, intersex, trans-sex etc.) political correctness - the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against discrimination - the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability fascism - a form of far-right, authoritarian ultra-nationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy nazism - extreme racist or authoritarian views or behavior elitism - the dominance of a society or system by an elite conservatism - commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation communism - a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs; absence of those notions of class that lead to systemic, hierarchical oppression socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole liberalism - willingness to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; openness to new ideas; a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise. equality - the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities status - position or rank in relation to others the status of a father; relative rank in a hierarchy of prestige - especially high prestige; the condition of a person or thing in the eyes of the law (note that status can affect people legally as well and in very unfair ways, it is not just about serotonin - people are born with an unequal status); state or condition with respect to circumstances oppression - prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or exercise of authority (related to hierarchy) hierarchy - a system in which members of an organization or society are ranked according to relative status or authority power - the ability or capacity to do something or act in a particular way without being stopped patriarchy - a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it Note: One cannot truly be communist (evaluate everybody's needs, equality, equity etc.) while simultaneously being a nazi, fascist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic or elitist, which the Soviet, Russian and Chinese regimes are/were. Communism requires a higher spiral development, which is an idea that Jordan Peterson does not understand. This is also one of the points in Leo's video that is mentioned above.

@Zeroguy This sounds almost xenophobic. It is not like all Arabs want to kill Israelis. Politics is a serious thing, nothing to screw. @Hulia It is interesting and really possible. People just need to stop caring about petty survival stuff and get real on what really matters and try to understand each other. But most people are too close-minded to do that, they have to actually open up and give up some of their solid stances. @DocWatts Nivsch is Israeli I think.

@Roy I would argue that Russia is not communist almost at all